Ideal Crawler?

[Disconnected]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist, but..

I'd like a dungeon crawler with something like proper ecology and randomly generated dungeons. And I'd like it to be turn based. Preferably with rules based on a PnP system. I'd also like it to have purdy grafix, but I suppose anything other than ASCII would be acceptable.

Does anything like that exist?

If not: why the hell not?

 

[Caveman]

Diablo 2 with Median 2008 mod. best roguelike game ever.

 

[DarkenRahl]

Diablo 2 with Median 2008 mod. best roguelike game ever.

damn, beat me to it



either that or pool of radiance but cant remember if the dungeons are random.

 

[Disconnected]

Looks cool, I'll check it out. Thanks

Any that aren't real time?

 

[Lord Chambers]

If not: why the hell not?

Because a proper ecology adds realism which creates addtional work for the designers and no corresponding fun or gameplay for dungeon crawlers.

But why Spore doesn't have proper ecology, when it's not only relevant but a badly needed gameplay component, is a good question to ask.

 

[Disconnected]

Because a proper ecology adds realism which creates addtional work for the designers and no corresponding fun or gameplay for dungeon crawlers.

I'm not talking about ultra realism, just a fair attempt at creating an illusion of dungeons existing independently of the guy(s) with gold fever.

IMO it would add to both fun & gameplay. At least, it does when playing PnP crawls. It requires a lot more of the hero(es). Video game-wise, I think Dungeon Keeper is pretty solid evidence that some sort of ecology adds both fun & gameplay.

But why Spore doesn't have proper ecology, when it's not only relevant but a badly needed gameplay component, is a good question to ask.

I fail to see how Spore needs it more than a crawler. Mind, I've only seen it in action, never actually played it.

 

[Fenril]

Wtf are you talking about? SimEarth meets Nethack?

Try that survivor roguelike with the awful real photos of some nordic dude with long hair.

 

[spectre]

Diablo 2 with Median 2008 mod.

Hmm. Gonna have to check this out.

To OP - try Adom, look past the ascii. Should be almost heavan.

 

[The Rambling Sage]

Wtf are you talking about? SimEarth meets Nethack?

Try that survivor roguelike with the awful real photos of some nordic dude with long hair.

If i understand him well, he is talking more about something like this...

Take Dungeon Keeper 2, for an example. Create the biggest, most eficient, most automated "pet dungeon" you can. Now study the design: It is functional. A place created not only for heroes to come slaughter the little buggers living there and steal treasure, but with an inherent logic. You will have diferent areas for diferent creatures, you will have isolated the species that hate each other, the passageways will be designed to improve efficiency and not to make adventurers lost, traps and guardpost will be in the most strategical places, not the most "original" ones. You will see diferent kinds of creatures tend to cluster more in certain areas, use some passageways more than others, choose this "eating place" instead of that other, etc. Things like that: It is not a randomly generated deathtrap with some rooms, some passages, some traps, some treasure chests and some monsters just thrown around. Is a city, or a town, or the fantasy equivalent of a terrorist base. Something like that.

Now imagine you being the hero that comes to attack it when you call for an attack to test the design. Notice how the thing is completely different to the dungeons in any dungeon crawler you have ever played. Those are made as deathtraps and "challenges", stupidly complex mazes and "lets use every square on the grid" sistems, without any logic concerning the internal works of the dungeon, the creatures there living, the groups there reunited, or their suposed objectives.

 

[Lemunde]

I somewhat agree that most randomly generated dungeons seem too random. There's no rhyme or reason to how they're made. But some might say that's part of their charm. I think if someone took the time to do it right you could have a randomly generated dungeon that looks and functions the way a hand made dungeon would. I don't think it's that hard of a concept, it just takes a bit of work.

 

[Monolith]

I'm not talking about ultra realism, just a fair attempt at creating an illusion of dungeons existing independently of the guy(s) with gold fever.

Sounds similar to what Dungeon Hero is supposed to be like. Dungeons inhibited by different creatures forming societies and the player an intruder disturbing the peace. What it finally will look like is yet to be seen as it's still in development. From what I've read it seems that instead of getting your missions from the good human folks outside, you'll get them from goblins now.

 

[Kos_Koa]

Median XL just finished beta apparently. Curious if anyone around here has played it.

http://modsbylaz.planetdiablo.gamespy.com/

Never played these mods but I hear that they are fun dungeon crawlers, is it worth it to reinstall Diablo 2 to play? Keep i mind I never really cared for Diablo 2 to begin with, but lately I've been wanting to get into dungeon crawlers.

 

[Disconnected]

If i understand him well[...]

You do. Thanks for clarifying for me.

Median XL just finished beta apparently. Curious if anyone around here has played it.

Yes, it's cool but not exactly what I was looking for.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Diablo 2 with Median 2008 mod. best roguelike game ever.

Better than Nethack? Sir, I take offense.