DAO vs BG1&2 difficulty

[BBMorti]

In the vanilla version of BG2, Protection from Undead scrolls caused Undead to outright ignore the affected party member, even if they were wailing on them. I'm not sure if this was changed in Tactics. But even if you ignore that 'exploit' (and I wouldn't even call it an 'exploit', since the scroll is just working as intended against an Undead Kangaxx), you have numerous weapons which can kill him in one hit on a failed save, such as Azure-edge. There is no equivalent 'silver bullet' for Gaxkan in Dragon Age. Even if you neuter his spell-casting with Mana Clash or Glyph of Warding, he is still a formidable warrior. Disabling spells such as petrification/paralysis only work for a second or two. Misdirection Hex is probably your best bet, but it only lasts for so long.

Thats nightmare difficulty.

 

[the_shadow]

Thats nightmare difficulty.

Ok, now I'm confused. I had to re-attempt the fight with Gaxkang numerous times, because Mana Clash only took off a fraction of his health, and I cast it at the beginning of the battle. I did face him near the end of the game, so maybe his HP was scaled up. I'll have to reload my old save and check.

 

[the_shadow]

Just did a Google Search. Gaxkang can either morph into an Arcane Horror (low HP, high mana) or Revenant (high HP, low mana). I've only ever fought him in his Revenant form, which is why Mana Clash wasn't a silver bullet.

 

[Desur]

you cannot win any BG autoattacking.

I guess you've never played BG with a competent archer party then. BG 2 might be doable with scripts, definitely more demanding though.

 

[Lhynn]

I guess you've never played BG with a competent archer party then.

i have, which is why i can say yer full of shit.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Yup, this whole thread is retarded and anyone even suggesting DAO is challenging is fucking retarded. They should be ashamed to even bring up such a stupid notion.

True. It's impossible to lose in DAO unless you're literally too retarded to cycle through your healing potions if required.

 

[pippin]

It's impossible to lose in DAO unless you're literally too retarded to cycle through your healing potions if required.

You don't even need to do that, since you can program your characters to do it with the Tactics menu.
The only true problem could be positioning, or when enemies disable your characters in one way or another.

 

[Desur]

I honestly never use non-permanent consumables in any RPG so that's what I based my opinion on. With potions both games become way too easy (BG would be the worse offender here - you can get full immunity against elements or the undead, that's just cheesy).
I'm still pretty positive auto attacking parties could work in BG (maybe with potions), I have gotten all the way to Chapter 6 with a half-orc berserk on insane and never once had to use any potions or scrolls. Inb4 'you couldn't play a half-orc berserk in the original BG, that's cheating': doesn't change the fact that you really only need a single damage dealer to beat 90% of the game (yeah, I cleared all of the areas except for the TotSC content) - how a full party with a tank and a couple of archers couldn't do better is beyond me.
EDIT: I did use some mirror-eye potions for the basilisk encounters and the grimoirs, beating the game doesn't require either though, I just felt like it.

 

[the_shadow]

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned how in BG2, you can toss a cloudkill into a room and close the door, and the enemy AI won't be able to pursue you. Wizards can cast Level 9 spells, but can't open a door. At least you can't abuse such tactics in DA: Origins.

 

[pippin]

I remember Cloudkill being way more useful in BG1... By BG2, you had to use other spells and tactics.

 

[Xeon]

On Nightmare DAO was more difficult than BG1 Insane. Mainly because I kept dying to my own party member's magic attacks.

BG2 is much harder tho mainly because magic, I know jack about it. ToB I very much disliked the last boss, harder than anything of DAO and expansion and BG1 extra bosses. even Watcher's Keep boss was a lot easier than that shit.

 

[raesha]

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned how in BG2, you can toss a cloudkill into a room and close the door, and the enemy AI won't be able to pursue you. Wizards can cast Level 9 spells, but can't open a door. At least you can't abuse such tactics in DA: Origins.

Mostly used cloudkill to cheese past encounters with umberhulks, but that kind of tactic is generally a bit too cheesy for my taste.

 

[lurker3000]

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned how in BG2, you can toss a cloudkill into a room and close the door, and the enemy AI won't be able to pursue you. Wizards can cast Level 9 spells, but can't open a door. At least you can't abuse such tactics in DA: Origins.

Doesn't SSC or one of the other mods change this? I feel like they have come through the doors for me.

 

[Space Insect]

I guess you've never played BG with a competent archer party then. BG 2 might be doable with scripts, definitely more demanding though.

You do realize that the archers will auto-attack the frontliners (read: fighters) and then the mages will cast horror on your archer party and then rape you?

 

[Somberlain]

Doesn't SSC or one of the other mods change this? I feel like they have come through the doors for me.

Yes. I'm not sure mod it is, exactly, but some enemies do open doors in my game, which includes SCS.

 

[Desur]

You do realize that the archers will auto-attack the frontliners (read: fighters) and then the mages will cast horror on your archer party and then rape you?

You do realize that you just have to engage from the other side to spot the mages first? The only instance where it wouldn't work that comes to my mind is the final battle (sure, there might be more but pretty much every one of them is optional). And 90% of NPC frontliners you come across will be dead within 1 round, Horror is only scary when there's someone to actually deal damage - and if you are careful not to overextend CHARNAME will never die so...

 

[Space Insect]

You do realize that you just have to engage from the other side to spot the mages first? The only instance where it wouldn't work that comes to my mind is the final battle (sure, there might be more but pretty much every one of them is optional). And 90% of NPC frontliners you come across will be dead within 1 round, Horror is only scary when there's someone to actually deal damage - and if you are careful not to overextend CHARNAME will never die so...

It won't work for the battle atop the Iron Throne unless you cheese and go down the stairs and it won't work for the battle in the tent at the bandit camp. That is at least 2 of the boss fights were staying out of sight of the mages is impossible. Also, the mages love to cast chaos or confusion so your people are running around and killing each other if you are unlucky. I really think you are underestimating most mage placement in the game.

 

[Desur]

It won't work for the battle atop the Iron Throne unless you cheese and go down the stairs and it won't work for the battle in the tent at the bandit camp. That is at least 2 of the boss fights were staying out of sight of the mages is impossible. Also, the mages love to cast chaos or confusion so your people are running around and killing each other if you are unlucky. I really think you are underestimating most mage placement in the game.

Alright, I've just reloaded a save from chapter 3 and went to the bandit camp with just my berserker. I couln't be bothered to kill all those bandits outside of the tent so I used an invisibility potion. Once inside I talked to Raemon (the guy to the right) and proceeded to kill everyone in that tent. I did *not* use Enrage and still lost only 33 out of my 105 HP and I just let the scripts to the job. I did use The Stupefier and dual wielding because I couldn't be bothered to change my set-up for something that silly. It's still clear that it would be perfectly reasonable to expect a full party to just wipe the floor with them (especially since the mage is actually more or less as far away from the entrance as the other two guys). I can supply battle logs if you so desire and might later try the Iron Throne fight (which I have already completed once with said berserker using Enrage).

PS. Learn to read, I never said one should try to stay out of the mages' sight, indeed you should always position yourself in such a way that they are the first ones the party sees.

 

[Space Insect]

Alright, I've just reloaded a save from chapter 3 and went to the bandit camp with just my berserker. I couln't be bothered to kill all those bandits outside of the tent so I used an invisibility potion. Once inside I talked to Raemon (the guy to the right) and proceeded to kill everyone in that tent. I did *not* use Enrage and still lost only 33 out of my 105 HP and I just let the scripts to the job. I did use The Stupefier and dual wielding because I couldn't be bothered to change my set-up for something that silly. It's still clear that it would be perfectly reasonable to expect a full party to just wipe the floor with them (especially since the mage is actually more or less as far away from the entrance as the other two guys). I can supply battle logs if you so desire and might later try the Iron Throne fight (which I have already completed once with said berserker using Enrage).

PS. Learn to read, I never said one should try to stay out of the mages' sight, indeed you should always position yourself in such a way that they are the first ones the party sees.

Weren't we talking about a party of just archers on auto-attack? I will agree with you that the berserker on auto-attack will easily win most fights.

 

[Desur]

Weren't we talking about a party of just archers on auto-attack? I will agree with you that the berserker on auto-attack will easily win most fights.

And what is the difference really? It's just plain physical damage, the team is essentially more powerful (bows>>any other weapon class in BG 1). The Berserker without Enrage is pretty much a fighter anyways.

 

[Desur]

I reloaded the save again, went back to get Imoen (lvl 1/8HP), Kivan (lvl 2/16HP), Safana (lvl 6/25 HP) and Garrick (lvl 6/20 HP) and equipped everyone with ranged weapons, returned to the tent and killed everyone inside. I lost Imoen but you won't really be waltzing into that freaking tent on level 1... And I didn't even use any consumables or spells, somehow everyone claiming DA:O is easy admits to using healing potions.

Edit: And before you start yammering about my main being level 7 and having two other characters at level 6 - it's meaningless, my main had no proficiency with bows whatsoever, a level 1 elven archer would have similar THAC0, and your regular level 3-4 party heading to the bandit camp would have way more HP overall. The 1 or 2 THAC0 bonus coming from the levels would normally be offset by decent gear and planning.