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Civilization VI - Now available, so you can sink all your free time into it

Joined
Sep 25, 2013
Messages
651
All they had to do was to limit the number of units in a doomstack. Allow for bigger doomstacks as technology advances. Pretty much like real life.
Pretty much how Realism Invictus did it with its logistics system, it's really good. But in spite of doomstacks, Immortal/Deity players know how difficult the game still is and AI is always capable of throwing a cheap shot.
 
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Thing is there's never been a strategy game praised for fantastic AI. At least I don't recall one.
galactic civilizations 2.

I never saw nu-CiV pull off invasion competently
i never saw nu-civ pull off ANYTHING. sort of minor issue in 5, it got full blown retardation in 6 where ai routinely would declare war despite distance, no-show for 30 turns and then beg for mercy.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
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Feb 15, 2012
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5,552
Daily reminder that release version of civ6 had serious issues with map scrolling and lacked such extravagant functionalities as unit/army list (feck knows if they added it later). Having working ai is a p high ask in such context.
 

cvv

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civ6 lacked such extravagant functionalities as unit/army list
Given the art style and the times we live in maybe they planned to sacrificed these outdated features in favour of being able to change your leader's hair style, outfit and tattoos, maybe even to date them, but then ran out of time so they didn't do anything.
 

Sarathiour

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3... 2... 1... The "b-b-but it was also shit in a gaym released 20 years ago" "argument" is here. Close the thread.
When comparing two things, its normal to emphasize the differences. The AI is similarly shit in all games in the series.
You were asking why the AI isn't talked about more during these comparisons, and that's the reason why.
Maybe the AI was bad in the previous one, but they could eventually pose a threat, even if it cheats for it.
Civ 6 AI has no plan whatsoever and is just acting randomly in embarrassing way.

Picking swordfight as an analogy, the previous AI would at least shake the pointy and shard end at you menacingly. The new AI is trying to grab the sword with her anus, fail, insult and pick a fight with another retarded passerby in the meantime, until she finally trip on the sword and kill herself.
 

Absinthe

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I think they've never bothered to adapt the AI for 1UPT, probably never will. Why not at least make armies deploy on a separate battlefield, or do it like Endless Legend? I couldn't stomach CiV for more than a couple plays because moving whole carpet unit by unit is horrendous.
It's amazing how this isn't constantly hammered in in every discussion about nu-civ and its possible continuation. But even looking at codex threads, ppl apparently love nu-civ combat enough to play and recommend games that are solely dedicated and focused on it.

:happytrollboy:
You can dodge the AI problem by exclusively playing multiplayer, which is what I did in Civ V (I never bought Civ VI or Beyond Earth). I think the 1 UPT problem could also have stood to benefit from shit like maintenance-free roads, better movement, and bigger maps for smaller traffic jams if they were going to commit to that stupidity. Some kind of mass unit selection also seems mandatory, honestly. The doom carpet traffic jam is just stupid.
 
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Joined
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I think they've never bothered to adapt the AI for 1UPT, probably never will. Why not at least make armies deploy on a separate battlefield, or do it like Endless Legend? I couldn't stomach CiV for more than a couple plays because moving whole carpet unit by unit is horrendous.
It's amazing how this isn't constantly hammered in in every discussion about nu-civ and its possible continuation. But even looking at codex threads, ppl apparently love nu-civ combat enough to play and recommend games that are solely dedicated and focused on it.


:happytrollboy:
It's because people, including those who played the old games, think (or apparently think at least) that doomstacks are bad and a cheap tactic. Nevermind the fact that Civ earned its name and fame while having doomstacks. It's like those who think Civ is a game that can be played tall. In fact, a lot of people think 5 is the best because that game was made to be played tall.
 

Max Damage

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Mar 1, 2017
Messages
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I think they've never bothered to adapt the AI for 1UPT, probably never will. Why not at least make armies deploy on a separate battlefield, or do it like Endless Legend? I couldn't stomach CiV for more than a couple plays because moving whole carpet unit by unit is horrendous.
It's amazing how this isn't constantly hammered in in every discussion about nu-civ and its possible continuation. But even looking at codex threads, ppl apparently love nu-civ combat enough to play and recommend games that are solely dedicated and focused on it.

:happytrollboy:
You can dodge the AI problem by exclusively playing multiplayer, which is what I did in Civ V (I never bought Civ VI or Beyond Earth). I think the 1 UPT problem could also have stood to benefit from shit like maintenance-free roads, better movement, and bigger maps for smaller traffic jams if they were going to commit to that stupidity. Some kind of mass unit selection also seems mandatory, honestly. The doom carpet traffic jam is just stupid.
Fucking hell, I totally forgot about roads having upkeep cost. Civ 5 made so many awful decisions, I don't think I've bounced off a 4X game faster. And then they made Beyond Earth just to prove that, yes, they can keep making them worse...
 

IHaveHugeNick

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I think they've never bothered to adapt the AI for 1UPT, probably never will. Why not at least make armies deploy on a separate battlefield, or do it like Endless Legend? I couldn't stomach CiV for more than a couple plays because moving whole carpet unit by unit is horrendous.
It's amazing how this isn't constantly hammered in in every discussion about nu-civ and its possible continuation. But even looking at codex threads, ppl apparently love nu-civ combat enough to play and recommend games that are solely dedicated and focused on it.

I mean, it takes a degree strategic foresight to see that, if I move 30 units to gangbang Montezuma, there's gonna be a traffic jam in that bottleneck near a mountain, so I better line up units properly to make sure ranged and artillery aren't out of position. Basically because 1UPT is so retarded, hooman player has an advantage because you can predict the problems 200 turns before you even start the war.

I'm sure they could get an AI to play it better but it would probably take way more effort than it's worth.
 

Absinthe

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Jan 6, 2012
Messages
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Fucking hell, I totally forgot about roads having upkeep cost. Civ 5 made so many awful decisions, I don't think I've bounced off a 4X game faster. And then they made Beyond Earth just to prove that, yes, they can keep making them worse...
Civ 5 is playable in multiplayer nowadays, but yeah, there were a lot of terrible and half-assed design decisions. In hindsight I think Brave New World was a bad expansion too. Tourism is a joke unless you're doing Sacred Sites ICS, internal trade routes are overpowered, great person generation got trashed, almost all culture buildings became trash, great works are too shit in their yields to be worth sacrificing great artists or writers for, culture is too easily gamed with the new curve (especially through religion), ideology as another super social policy tree basically shits on the idea of actually choosing between social policy trees (Rationalism tree also has this problem and never got fixed), and World Congress was a pretty half-assed mechanic.

It's pretty clear that the people making Civ games nowadays just lack good insight and seem to be the kind of shitty player that despises competitive gameplay and doesn't realize that understanding competitive gameplay is a pretty important part of knowing how to create good gameplay systems.

I mean, it takes a degree strategic foresight to see that, if I move 30 units to gangbang Montezuma, there's gonna be a traffic jam in that bottleneck near a mountain, so I better line up units properly to make sure ranged and artillery aren't out of position. Basically because 1UPT is so retarded, hooman player has an advantage because you can predict the problems 200 turns before you even start the war.

I'm sure they could get an AI to play it better but it would probably take way more effort than it's worth.
Oh it's definitely possible to create a way better AI than they have, but the trouble is that they are too incompetent to do it. In Civ 5 they nerfed the honor tree, great generals, and flanking bonuses because the AI was too stupid to know how to use them. So basically instead of improving the AI, they decided to kneecap players down to the AI's level, and it doesn't achieve shit because the AI is still so retarded that it will repeatedly march its units into mass archer fire and maneuver like a goddamn idiot ignoring more vulnerable or dangerous enemy targets. It's so horrendously incapable of waging war that you will easily achieve over 10:1 kill ratios, so the game is not a challenge at all.
 
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Cael

Arcane
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Nov 1, 2017
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Brave New World was when Civ turned woke into virtue. It was shit by default right from the fucking trailer.
 

bat_boro

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Nov 22, 2006
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Okay so I played Civ 5 with the expansions quite a lot back in the day, and a week or so ago I reinstalled, played a bit and got frustrated how simple everything is - that said I always play on Prince difficulty.
So I saw that Civ 6 is heavily discounted, so I got the biggest bundle. Booted it up and was instantly overwhelmed by how different and how much more complex everything seems at face glance.

I played some Endless Legend way back as well, but I've more or less completely forgotten everything - and this looks more complicated at first glance. So any tips to a newbie, or some lightweight reference resources you can share? I only play like 30-60 minutes per day so that's why I'm hesitant to go through big extensive wikis, but would like to learn the very basic differences between Civ 5 and 6 and learn the rest as I go along
 

whydoibother

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Codex Year of the Donut
So any tips to a newbie, or some lightweight reference resources you can share?
Compared to Civ5, you want more cities.
The biggest contributors to your science, gold, culture, faith and production are the Districts. A city can build 1 district, +1 for every 3 population. So as long as a city can reach 4 population fast, and 7 population eventually, its worth building. As in, its worth building any city with at least a few good tiles (it can also work specialist slots on its districts).
Districts themselves have adjacency bonuses: industry from mines, science from mountains, culture from wonders, etc. These are worth planning. The game by default has a planning tool, where you can leave notes on the map and therefore help plan your district layout. Without mods, districts can't be destroyed or replaced. Put it in the right place.

Compared to Civ5, cities are weaker at first.
You need an army to defend your city. Later you need to build a military district and walls on your frontier cities. In combat, you need blocker units in front of your ranged units, which are very vulnerable. When attacking, you need siege units.
Great generals only buff units of the same era as them, it specifies what era that is on the unit itself. They are very strong. Great people can't die, so you can scout with a great writer and stupid things like that. If captured, it will just teleport to your nearest city.

Compared to Civ5, the policies can be changed.
You want to do some stuff in bursts. For example, place the policy that builders get +2 charges, then produce/buy many builders, than remove that policy to replace it with something else when you are done building workers for the moment. Similarly with producing military units or districts.
I don't know if governors and golden ages are in the default game or expansions, but their use also encourages you to do things in bursts. And similarly to that, the eureka moments/inspirations for researching cultural or scientific institutions also rewards setting things up, like researching archery 2/3 of the way in, and then competing it with your slinger killing a barbarian.
Nature reserves only become possible in the late game, but can only be built where there's nothing else built, no districts, no improvements, and require high appeal on tiles. So that's something you may plan on turn 20 and do on turn 200, for a tourism boost.

tl;dr the game requires much more planning, because important decisions aren't just momentary like clicking a social policy or building a wonder on the same tile as the city, many things require or reward deciding things in advance and setting them up. The AI isn't good at doing this. Over time you will outcompete it. The AI will be stronger at first, and weaker later, to an even greater degree than it was in previous games.
 

bat_boro

Arcane
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
1,532
This sounds like an insanely good advice, I was a bit reluctant to get into this because I'm mostly playing with my kids on my lap (they like the artstyle) and I was getting mogged by barbarians early on playing with Civ5 tactics (I tend to spam 4-5 scouts on Continents maps and just use them against barbarians).
Many thanks bro
 
Joined
Sep 25, 2013
Messages
651
I played some Endless Legend way back as well, but I've more or less completely forgotten everything - and this looks more complicated at first glance. So any tips to a newbie, or some lightweight reference resources you can share? I only play like 30-60 minutes per day so that's why I'm hesitant to go through big extensive wikis, but would like to learn the very basic differences between Civ 5 and 6 and learn the rest as I go along
Get quick deals mod. (Doesn't change gameplay, just makes it convenient to trade so you don't have to go through multiple screens and animations all the time)
Amenities are a meme and consider them as such. Gold and selling diplo favor is king. Congrats, you can beat deity now.
 

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