Any 4x space games to recommend?

[JarlFrank]

I loved Master of Orion 2 and Space Empires V was also quite fun, and I crave for more of that stuff. Maybe I'm going to get Sword of the Stars, is it any good? And what about Birth of the Federation? Is it any good? I heard it's quite similar to MOO2.

 

[Jasede]

I heard the general concensus is that Galactic Civilisations 2 is the best for those who liked Master of Orion 2. Myself, I had more fun with the latter, but I still encourage you to try the game out.

 

[Alfgart]

Galactic Civilizations 2

 

[Sovy Kurosei]

You can't go wrong with Galactic Civilizations 2.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

There is no such things as 4X games.

... or did we win that Wikipedia dispute?

 

[Tinkies]

The tag about it not being notable enough has disappeared...

Oh yeah, and ditto on GalCiv2

 

[Severian Silk]

There will also be Sins of a Solar Empire. If you preorder now you get to join the beta.

 

[Astromarine]

sins isn't 4X really, it's more akin to an RTS with intraplanetary combat instead of terrestrial. Kinda.

 

[Müg]

Alpha Centurai counts as space. Right? Right?

 

[Psilon]

Sword of the Stars apparently had some serious issues.

Birth of the Federation was godawful. Don't bother.

I second the GalCiv 2 suggestion. It's not as addictive as MOO2 was, but it's the best we've got now.

 

[Grifman]

I loved Master of Orion 2 and Space Empires V was also quite fun, and I crave for more of that stuff. Maybe I'm going to get Sword of the Stars, is it any good? And what about Birth of the Federation? Is it any good? I heard it's quite similar to MOO2.

Sword of the Stars is great. It's my favorite 4X space game and I've played them all. Be sure to pick up the expansion - it adds a lot to an already great game.

 

[Grifman]

Sword of the Stars apparently had some serious issues.

Depends on who you talk to. Some people hung up on interfaces complained about that, but the developers have been very responsive and have fixed many of those issues.

The game has 4 very distinct races (the expansion adds a fifth). They are distinct in terms of interstellar travel, tech tree probabilities, ship capabilities (some faster, some stronger, some more fragile, etc), peaceful/warlike inclinations, etc. They feel very different and play so - they don't just seem like race A has +2 for research or +4 to combat.

The tech tree is random - you won't get the same techs every time. There are core techs but others are optional. You have to adapt your play to what's there. The ship design is great - it has a greater impact on gameplay than any game I've seen in a while. Beams, ballistics, missiles, torpedoes, etc, it's all there. Along with shields, cloaking, armor, etc.

Economy is simple, just build up infrastructure, then terraform the planet. All done by sliders. It's simplifed but works. The game is more about researching, designing ships, and fighting. \

Strategic play is TB, with combat in RT. You can pause and issue orders, you can micro as much as you want. You can tell a ship to attack another, tell it to attack a given section, or actually strip the turrets off a dreadnaught if you want to micro that much.

I think it's a great game.

 

[Müg]

The tech tree is random - you won't get the same techs every time. There are core techs but others are optional. You have to adapt your play to what's there. The ship design is great - it has a greater impact on gameplay than any game I've seen in a while. Beams, ballistics, missiles, torpedoes, etc, it's all there. Along with shields, cloaking, armor, etc.

This is both limiting and confining and yet one of the most fascinating ideas I've heard of.

 

[Grifman]

The tech tree is random - you won't get the same techs every time. There are core techs but others are optional. You have to adapt your play to what's there. The ship design is great - it has a greater impact on gameplay than any game I've seen in a while. Beams, ballistics, missiles, torpedoes, etc, it's all there. Along with shields, cloaking, armor, etc.

This is both limiting and confining and yet one of the most fascinating ideas I've heard of.

There are also multiple paths to certain techs. If you don't get anti-matter warheads by oing up the missile tree, you might get them when you research anti-matter propulsion. Or if you don't get fusion cannons by researching the cannon tree, you might get them when you research fusion engines. It makes for some interesting choices - if you miss X do you research Y hoping you get it that way?

 

[nikpalj]

Birth of the Federation was godawful. Don't bother.

Actually, *do* bother... specially if you happen to be a Trek fan!

I've been playing the game for the last decade (as many other have) and tend to disagree with the statement that it's "godawful" - it's actually one of the better and more memorable space strategy games out there. MoO 3 was godawful...

And I'm not the only fan - another thing that you have to be aware of is that even today the game has a large fanbase / mod community, found on www.armadafleetcommand.com.

The mods are the main reason why you should give BotF a try, they help push this small gem closer to what it was supposed to be from the begining... if only the designers had done their job professionally - with more passion and love toward Star Trek and space strategy genre as a whole.


I recommend you try playing BotF with the Balance of Power or Ultimate Dominion Mod 2 installed:

BoP re-balances or changes how many internal game mechanics work to try to bring the game closer to Trek canon - and does a great job of this! - but leaves the graphics as they are in the vanilla version...

- The shiplists for all major races has been reworked to resemble more what can be seen on tv and the movies. The available ships are different then in the vanilla game...
- The galactic range and combat statistics of many ships has been completely reworked, which truly changes the way playing the game feels - works like a different, much better BotF game now with longer and more satisfying space battles then before!
- The galactic sensor range of many ships has been reduced to 1, which forces the player to rely more on Starbases for monitoring enemy ship movement (and not a few cheap scouts with sensor range 3 anymore)...
- The AI builds ALL of the ships available to it, unlike in the original game where you never saw any AI built Klingon K'vort or Federation Defiant or Sovereign classes.
- The AI builds Starbases, unlike in the original game, and this time they're truly a tough nut to crack, requiring a large fleet of vessels to take out - as it should be.
- The "build and scrap (ships)" exploit of gaining large amounts of credits because of a (kind of a) vanilla game bug has been finally removed, which forced many players to radically change their gameplay approach.
- Many additional tweaks and fixes...


The Ultimate Dominion Mod 2 concentrates more on the graphics side of things, bringing the Dominion as a playable race to the game (instead of the classic Ferengi), as well as many, many canon Trek starships that have been left out from the original game (which has always been one of the game's bigger flaws).

The Excelsior, Intrepid and the fan favorite Akira have all been modded in, are researcheable and buildable by the player as well as the AI empires, and the Dominion of course have their canon ships - the jem'hadar attack ship, breen battlecruiser and the dominion battlescruiser and (mother of a) battleship are all there...


Of course, the tech tree in all of the mods is still the old inflexible, scripted one as in the original game - which has been the thorn in the eye of many players for ages now... but if you can learn to live with that and a simplified economy and diplomacy model - the modded Birth of the Federation is imho now actually a very good and rewarding Cx4 experience...

 

[Psilon]

OK, yes, it wasn't as abysmal as MOO3, but few space strategy games are. It was simply a game that was bad enough at release that even being a Trekkie didn't save it for me. MOO2 had a better interface, better combat, a tech tree that was interesting, and improved reliability--why settle?

 

[obediah]

I'd much rather play SE IV with one of the star trek mods than BotF.

 

[cutterjohn]

Has anyone here tried Lost Empires?

Lost Empires

BTW: SEV is $19.99 through Steam, and IIRC $24.95 with SEIV.

Gal Civ II: From what I've read, GC2 is like a dumbed down version of a dumbed down version of a 4X.

Sword of the Stars: Not as many comments found as the other games, but opinions seem to be mixed enough that I'd probably spring for it if found in a bargain bin or otherwise discounted steeply.

Other than that, I'm much more inclined to go for SEV via steam, probably with SEIV, and then wait for a reduction in price on Lost Empires as that one sounds pretty good too. Lost Empires from what I've read is supposed to be more complex like SEV yet having better overall execution and MUCH more polish.

 

[The Dude]

Sword of the Stars is bloody underrated.

If you liked the originial MOO better than the sequel and wouldn't mind a helping of pretty glorious tactical RTS combat you really should buy it.

If you however like to have your face slapped with huge amounts of micro on the strategic level a la Space Empires, and to some degree MOO 2, this game probably isn't for you.

Also, I have tried Lost Empires some. In it current state it's very unpolished, I'd wait for another bunch of patches before buying. On the other hand, it's a small dev just starting out (They seem to care a lot for their game on their forums and seems very eager to listen to the players wishes when it comes to patch content.) and the stream of support might dry up if not enough people buy the game.

 

[YourConscience]

SotS got quite a bit better with that expansion which I am currently reviewing. Wait a week or so until I post up the review and see a detailed break down on the improvements and the resulting general (by now much more polished) feel of the entire game.