From Software Dark Souls 3

[Machocruz]

Just my take, but Bloodborne isn't a Dark Souls anymore than Shadow Tower is a King's Field game. From aren't the only developer who have ever made similar games that were not part of the same series or shared a universe. That's why I cringe at a lot of the "Soulsborne" or "Souls series" talk and they even throw Sekiro in there and try to judge it by the same standard, which is foolish. I loved Bloodborne but it's cadence should be its own and DS should have remained more 'methodical', heavy, slower, whatever you want to call it. There was no expectation for BB to play like DS1 or 2, at least there shouldn't have been, but I think it was fair for people to have an expectation for Dark Souls 3 to feel like other games named Dark Souls.

Anyway, I already criticized 3 in the 2 thread, so i will say just taken as a fantasy action game, DS3 is still better than 95% of the market, which I think even its detractors can agree with. You can look at it like Capcom beat 'em ups in the 90s: similar in many ways, but they got faster and more fluid as time went on. Some people prefer the constrained feel of Final Fight compared to The Punisher, and vice versa. Also From's art direction in 3 also mogs 95% of everyone else in fantasy, although I have some criticisms there too.

 

[Skinwalker]

Bloodborne absolutely isn't flawless but it's still great.

The biggest flaws are:
- very linear world

So that brain transplant didn't go so well, did it?

 

[Odoryuk]

Just my take, but Bloodborne isn't a Dark Souls anymore than Shadow Tower is a King's Field game. From aren't the only developer who have ever made similar games that were not part of the same series or shared a universe. That's why I cringe at a lot of the "Soulsborne" or "Souls series"

Personally I find "Souls" or "Soulsborne series" good enough terms for such games, as it is stated right in the name that these games came from Demon's Souls, the first game in the sub–series. By calling them Souls or Soulseborne I don't mean that they all are connected beyond the same developers by any means, they're all just third person action rpgs with multiplayer that is built right into the singleplayer game, just like Demon's Souls is. I don't think it is correct to add Sekiro into the same category, as it's a game in a different genre. It's like meshing Echo Night games into From's First Person Dungeon Crawlers (KF1-4, Shadow Tower 1-2, Eternal Ring), because these games are both in first person and have a similar eerie atmosphere.
Elden Ring is totally a Soulsborne game in my book.

 

[Skinwalker]

Just call them soulsgame, who cares, lol. Demon Souls, Dark Souls 1/2/3, Bloodborne and Elden Ring are definitely soulsgames. Sekiro - haven't played, can't judge.

 

[Machocruz]

Personally I find "Souls" or "Soulsborne series" good enough terms for such games, as it is stated right in the name that these games came from Demon's Souls, the first game in the sub–series. By calling them Souls or Soulseborne I don't mean that they all are connected beyond the same developers by any means, they're all just third person action rpgs with multiplayer that is built right into the singleplayer game, just like Demon's Souls is. I don't think it is correct to add Sekiro into the same category, as it's a game in a different genre. It's like meshing Echo Night games into From's First Person Dungeon Crawlers (KF1-4, Shadow Tower 1-2, Eternal Ring), because these games are both in first person and have a similar eerie atmosphere.
Elden Ring is totally a Soulsborne game in my book.

I think that's a reasonable use of the terminology, you're not saying all these games constitute a series in the conventional sense. I like Soulsborne more than just Souls because it acknowledges the other property. ER definitely belongs in your usage. Some even say it's technically DS4, but I think From not titling it that way gives leeway for it to be judged on its own and not how much like DeS-3 it is or not. If they had even made ER a very different kind of fantasy game with nothing in common, I would have been fine with that.

Just call them soulsgame, who cares, lol. Demon Souls, Dark Souls 1/2/3, Bloodborne and Elden Ring are definitely soulsgames. Sekiro - haven't played, can't judge.

There is no definitely, it's all contrived by lazy internet dorks lol. Muhzaki games is just as good bro

 

[Ryzer]

- weapons that are there are great but the wep selection is far from amazing
- insight sounds good, is mostly pointless
- arcane is just bad and stop defending it
- build variety is the worst in any FS game; understandable, give the game is trying to do things differently, but it's still a fact and it still bums you out in NG+ runs - most levels are a notable slump in quality compared to DS1

Bullshit

Insight has direct in-game consequences on the perception of the real world, it's meaningful. In fact without good insight you can't even start the DLC or understand anything about what's going on. It's a direct Lovecraft reference and you missed it.

Build variety is more important in Bloodborne than in Dark Souls, because every weapon has its own move set ( including way more moves than in DS) which is very distinct to any other weapon. In DS it's all copy/paste with one special move. Quality> Quantity.

With Arcane, you can be pretty powerful.

Levels in Bloodborne are slighty below DS but they are good for the most part. The beginning of the game in particular is on par.

 

[Machocruz]

Damn it's almost like Bloodborne and Dark Souls are different games.

 

[Odoryuk]

you're not saying all these games constitute a series in the conventional sense

Yeah, I guess it can be quite confusing, as this is what game series usually are, but these games are not connected unless they are direct sequels, like in Dark Souls trilogy. I don't know if there's a better word to describe this line of work. As I mentioned earlier, they also did this earlier with their first person dungeon crawlers on Playstation 1 and 2, though that series had more sequels than Souls.

Bullshit

Yeah. FromSoftware games are more than sum of its parts, and by just making lists of features, both positive and negative, you won't come close to actually getting any of the games. Dark Souls 1, for example, has less detailed environment (even less than Demon's Souls in some areas), its level design (not interconnectivity between the levels) was surpassed by consecutive games, some battle actions feel limited compared to what will come next, yet it is still the best game in the trilogy, and I can't describe why I feel like that by using lists of features alone. Maybe the fact that it's my first Soulsborne game plays into that, but I can't help but love it a little bit more than Dark Souls 3 and Dark Souls 2.
I will never forgive Namco Bandai for what they have done to PvP in Remastered, and they had the audacity to close the servers for PtDE, locking a lot of new people from the best multiplayer iteration yet.

 

[Ryzer]

Little unknown fact: Mobs have different attacks depending on player insight.

 

[Skinwalker]

Little unknown fact: Mobs have different attacks depending attacks depending on player insight

The Pthumerian gentlemen gaining magic missile abilities as you progress is hard to miss, if you're playing the game right. It happened right as I was exploring Cathedral Ward, on both playthroughs. Suddenly their lanterns gained a bunch of skulls and they started casting spells with them, lol.

 

[Ryzer]

Little unknown fact: Mobs have different attacks depending attacks depending on player insight

The Pthumerian gentlemen gaining magic missile abilities as you progress is hard to miss, if you're playing the game right. It happened right as I was exploring Cathedral Ward, on both playthroughs. Suddenly their lanterns gained a bunch of skulls and they started casting spells with them, lol.

The best example is Yahar' Gul, in the beginning of the game, you hear a creepy choir singing prayers to the sky, so you wonder why that is.

Then much later in the game, you truly admire what Yahar' Gul truly is.

It's a Cthulu nightmare with giant god-like monsters.

And the prayers are addressed to these gods.

 

[Odoryuk]

I was lucky enough to get through Bloodborne without spoiling the twist, but the thematic shift to unspeakable horrors wasn't such a whiplash as many people hyped it to be. It was great and fun to uncover new stuff and slowly realise what's happening, but the game's thematic elements in the beginning blended into final game's state pretty seamlessly.

 

[Skinwalker]

I'll be honest, I think they dropped the ball a little bit with Yahar'Ghul. Overall it's a very-well designed area if you enjoy being creeped out and having nightmares, but those basic enemies (same partially-mutated citizens dropping the same lines) from the start of the game manifesting out of blood felt like... cutting corners. Like they ran out of time to develop unique enemies for that part of the game, and just reused the basic ones.

Should have at least added some tentacles/spider-legs/whatever to their character models, like the Cthulhu-ogre in Hunter's Nightmare, and recorded unique sounds.

 

[Ryzer]

Don't forget technical limitations, as it is now, the PS4 already struggles to run it properly at 30 FPS, not that it is an excuse to the devs, but the PS4 CPU is literally a tablet CPU.

 

[Machocruz]

yet it is still the best game in the trilogy, and I can't describe why I feel like that by using lists of features alone.

It's just iconic, and even though it wasn't the first, it was the trendsetter for all similar games and wannabes that came after. The highly regarded world layout is divergent from what came before and what came after and is seen as superior to both by many. Demon's is more special to me, 2 and 3 have their improvements, but if pressed I'd have to say DS1 is the epitome of the series, the one you should play if you could only choose one*. You can't go wrong with it. The least controversial, the only consistent criticisms being level design later on and BoC, and the former is even argued over these days. Whatever Souls is or should be, I think they got it the most right overall and set the standard in 1; it's the most complete DS experience, basically.

*which should never happen, Tower of Latria is a must.

 

[Odoryuk]

Should have at least added some tentacles/spider-legs/whatever to their character models, like the Cthulhu-ogre in Hunter's Nightmare, and recorded unique sounds.

I thought that these were some sort of weird remains of people sacrificed in the ritual. It was clearly done to cut corners, as they always do, necessity is the mother of invention and they come up with a nice solution that doesn't contradict the game's world.

Demon's is more special to me, 2 and 3 have their improvements, but if pressed I'd have to say DS1 is the epitome of the series, the one you should play if you could only choose one*. You can't go wrong with it

I understand your reasoning, but I think to get the full experience you have to play all 3 games, I returned to Dark Souls 1 after beating 2 and 3 and with each time I loved it more because of what it has lead to. If we're talking about chosing a singular FromSoftware game and nothing else, then my pick would be Bloodborne.

 

[Skinwalker]

Don't forget technical limitations, as it is now, the PS4 already struggles to run it properly at 30 FPS, not that it is an excuse to the devs, but the PS4 CPU is literally a tablet CPU.

Honestly, even just changing their dialogue lines to incoherent gurgling/howling would have helped a lot to maintain the atmosphere. Partially werewolfed citizens yelling "you're a monster!" at you in cockney accents worked beautifully at the start of the game (to the point where I wish Central Yharnam was twice if not thrice as big as it actually is, best starting level in any video game I've ever played), by the time of Yahar'Ghul they felt horribly out of place.

I thought that these were some sort of weird remains of people sacrificed in the ritual.

That's why they should have been more deformed/mutated/incoherent than the real people in Central Yharnam. But then, we know for a fact that Bloodborne was rushed.

Another famous victim of this rushed development and last-minute changes was Byrgenworth. Originally, it was supposed to be a properly-sized explorable area, but they never got to finish it. Instead, we got a comically-small Byrgenworth that's about the size of a single family home, and its "Lecture Hall" area became an unnecessary and confusing launch-pad for the proper nightmare realms.

 

[Odoryuk]

That's why they should have been more deformed/mutated/incoherent than the real people in Central Yharnam

Yeah, but their body parts were used to reanimate the One Reborn, so we are fighting their wacky blood spirits that remain in their physical state at the moment of being sacrificed, that's what I thought.

 

[Machocruz]

I understand your reasoning, but I think to get the full experience you have to play all 3 games, I returned to Dark Souls 1 after beating 2 and 3 and with each time I loved it more because of what it has lead to. If we're talking about chosing a singular FromSoftware game and nothing else, then my pick would be Bloodborne.

Yeah unless burned out or pressed for time, there's no reason not to. Just providing some possible non-nostalgic reasons 1 is the best.

Bloodborne is def top 4 From, maybe 3. Shadow Tower Abyss is at the top if we talking all of FS. Then DeS, DS1 and BB, ordered depending on my mood. Probably some AC game after those.

 

[Ryzer]

That's why they should have been more deformed/mutated/incoherent than the real people in Central Yharnam

Yeah, but their body parts were used to reanimate the One Reborn, so we are fighting their wacky blood spirits that remain in their physical state at the moment of being sacrificed, that's what I thought.

The old reborn is the remain of the choir of Yahar Ghul, not of the crowd in central Yharnam.

 

[Odoryuk]

The old reborn is the remain of the choir of Yahar Ghul, not of the crowd in central Yharnam.

Wait, I thought these guys were the dry skeletons with cages on their heads you meet after killing One Reborn, and they sacrificed all people living in the Unseen Village for the ritual.
Oh, and we're talking about enemies that appear in Unseen Village, not Central Yharnam.

 

[Silverfish]

They have yet to surpass Bloodborne and I doubt they ever will.

They surpassed it three times previously and three since. Bloodborne is a shit game that gets a pass from a lot of people because it admittedly has style to spare.

 

[Ryzer]

They have yet to surpass Bloodborne and I doubt they ever will.

They surpassed it three times previously and three since. Bloodborne is a shit game that gets a pass from a lot of people because it admittedly has style to spare.

Git Gud. Filtered by Gascoigne, sad!

 

[Silverfish]

Git Gud. Filtered by Gascoigne, sad!

I powered through, but Gascoigne is a terrible boss.

 

[Ryzer]

Git Gud. Filtered by Gascoigne, sad!

I powered through, but Gascoigne is a terrible boss.

It's an excellent boss to filter noobs and idiots and it shows.