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You don't need talent

Zed Duke of Banville

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Just look at Bethesda for example.

Try to do something quality at first ( DaggerFall Morrowind), see that it is good but niche, remove everything that makes 'it' it, it became shit and masses love it.
After just barely scraping by for a decade following a shift in their focus away from sports games (Wayne Gretzky Hockey), Bethesda finally achieved commercial success in 2002 with Morrowind, which was very far from being "niche", especially when compared to Daggerfall. However, the very success of Morrowind led to their intentionally dumbing down the series in Oblivion in order to appeal to the broader masses and achieve greater sales with an inferior version of the same basic formula (and game engine). Bethesda could have continued to make games in the vein of Morrowind and been a financially successful RPG company, but not with the spectacular sales they achieved through their chosen path.
 

typical user

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It isn't hard to make money, you just need lots of commercials for that. Even my mother who doesn't even differentiate monitor from pc asked me what Fallout 4 is. I saw it on every bus stop, tv ads were airing between every show. I doesn't matter if your game is shit or not, all it matters is that your game is everywhere so people who don't even have a computer are going to see what it is and maybe buy it from curiosity for themselves or their son as christmas present. The fact that market is growing should surprise anyone this game outsold Skyrim + the fact Skyrim didn't have true competition so it was well received by general public. Fallout 4 got flak during it's first week after release.

Their next TES game is going to outsell Fallout 4. People will say that it is better than Fallout 4 (which is hardly an achievement because this game is a mess) or because "they did Skyrim". Unless Cyberpunk 2077 gets released and gets same ad campaign which I hope it will. Todd should get a dick not money for being deaf to fanbase demands.
 

Makabb

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It isn't hard to make money, you just need lots of commercials for that. Even my mother who doesn't even differentiate monitor from pc asked me what Fallout 4 is. I saw it on every bus stop, tv ads were airing between every show. I doesn't matter if your game is shit or not, all it matters is that your game is everywhere so people who don't even have a computer are going to see what it is and maybe buy it from curiosity for themselves or their son as christmas present. The fact that market is growing should surprise anyone this game outsold Skyrim + the fact Skyrim didn't have true competition so it was well received by general public. Fallout 4 got flak during it's first week after release.

Their next TES game is going to outsell Fallout 4. People will say that it is better than Fallout 4 (which is hardly an achievement because this game is a mess) or because "they did Skyrim". Unless Cyberpunk 2077 gets released and gets same ad campaign which I hope it will. Todd should get a dick not money for being deaf to fanbase demands.


It's weird but most people think that if something is advertised it must be good, or if a lot of people like it must be good, usualy it's quite the opposite.
 

NeoKino

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Bethesda made more money with their so-called "lack of talent" than Obsidian ever will. Meanwhile, while Todd Howard and Pete Hines are bathing in showers of cash, Josh Sawyer, Chris Avellone, Feargus Urquhart, and Brian Fargo are all scattered to the winds looking for work wherever they can find it.
And somehow that's a good thing?
 

Deleted Member 16721

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Everyone has talent, it's just a matter of if they choose to unlock it or not. It basically comes down to being a driven and passionate individual, which means you're doing something you love, therefore the work isn't actually work to you but something you enjoy. Motivation and drive are hugely underrated "talents".

Most people are comfortable where they are at so they don't bother with the stress of having to work harder or try to "move up". But Todd Howard and big studio guys are very talented, too. They have to be to be in that position and maintain it. Talent at a craft is just a bonus and comes with time, effort and practice. The difference in people is the motivation level. Pretty much applies to anything.
 

DosBuster

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Very few RPGs mention Skyrim as an inspiration

I would expect this to change in the next 10 years, as teenagers who played it begin making their own games.

A lot of AAA rpgs are building off Skyrin's ideas:

Witcher 3's open world was built off Skyrim's flaws, while also taking note of how it handled immersion and exploration. (Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...ev-says-skyrims-story-and-quests-were-generic)
Although personally, I can't name any of the NPCs who gave side quests out and I think CD Projekt Red made some huge mistakes with the open world design.

Dragon Age Inquisition also took from Skyrim. (Source: http://www.polygon.com/2014/11/3/7151567/how-skyrim-is-helping-to-shape-dragon-age-inquisition)
 

Joevonzombie

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Bethesda made more money with their so-called "lack of talent" than Obsidian ever will. Meanwhile, while Todd Howard and Pete Hines are bathing in showers of cash, Josh Sawyer, Chris Avellone, Feargus Urquhart, and Brian Fargo are all scattered to the winds looking for work wherever they can find it.

Which is a huge problem for me because I honestly don't know how they got to this point because NONE of their games are actually good. Bethesda Game Studios has always gotten a free pass for releasing legitimately unfinished products and I will never understand why. Fallout 3 was just as busted New Vegas at launch and everyone seems to have forgotten this. Their games may be as wide as an ocean, but they're as shallow as a puddle. Their first two Scrolls games are far too reliant on randomly generated content that is broken half the time which forces you to reload and their latter games are too focused on streamlining everything, removing the shit that actually worked, and horrendous level scaling. The closest they have come to a decent game is Morrowind and even then, it's mediocre at best because the world is so fucking bland.
 
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... I honestly don't know how they got to this point because NONE of their games are actually good ...

Same reason as why Fifty Shades of Grey sells millions of copies while very few read Dostoyevsky or Cervantes.

Same reason as why the previously linked Michael Bay makes best-selling movies while very few have watched such amazing films as The Lives of Others.

Good is a relative term, and what's good for the niche is not necessarily what's good for the masses. If you close your eyes and imagine Kardashians, NASCAR, people getting drunk at a fraternity party, etc, then Bethesda being popular will make perfect sense.
 

Joevonzombie

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... I honestly don't know how they got to this point because NONE of their games are actually good ...

Same reason as why Fifty Shades of Grey sells millions of copies while very few read Dostoyevsky or Cervantes.

Same reason as why the previously linked Michael Bay makes best-selling movies while very few have watched such amazing films as The Lives of Others.

Good is a relative term, and what's good for the niche is not necessarily what's good for the masses. If you close your eyes and imagine Kardashians, NASCAR, people getting drunk at a fraternity party, etc, then Bethesda being popular will make perfect sense.

Fair enough.
 

Makabb

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Bethesda games are popular because they are the original 'open world fpp' the games where 'you can go anywhere and do whatever you want', 'see that mountain?'

I could write a long post about this, but i'll just write that they are not this, but could be.
 

anvi

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I think Bethesda hit the jackpot purely by accident, their games are 1st person, it seems that in 90's they actualy tried to make a decent RPG but at some point in 2005 they said 'fuck it, lets make a Elder Scrolls CoD', today most popular are FPSes (Cod, BF). By dumbing down their RPG mechanics and buffing the graphics like FPSes do, they reached the mass market.
This is exactly what happened.
 
Self-Ejected

IncendiaryDevice

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Very few RPGs mention Skyrim as an inspiration

I would expect this to change in the next 10 years, as teenagers who played it begin making their own games.

A lot of AAA rpgs are building off Skyrin's ideas:

Witcher 3's open world was built off Skyrim's flaws, while also taking note of how it handled immersion and exploration. (Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...ev-says-skyrims-story-and-quests-were-generic)
Although personally, I can't name any of the NPCs who gave side quests out and I think CD Projekt Red made some huge mistakes with the open world design.

Dragon Age Inquisition also took from Skyrim. (Source: http://www.polygon.com/2014/11/3/7151567/how-skyrim-is-helping-to-shape-dragon-age-inquisition)

This is the loosest possible definition of 'Inspired By' that you could ever get.

Inspired by normally means the entire game was constructed with a different game as a reference point, while making a different game. What we refer to as clones or likes. Diablo-clone, Rogue-like. This would be the strongest possible definition.

When the devs sit down and start developing the game, everything about what they put in the game has to come from somewhere unless it's a 'daring new concept'. The resultant product will have immediate and easily visible similarities to older, established games. ie: it's obvious which strand of RPGs the Grimrock series is inspired by.

Both DA:I and W3 were the third entry in their respective series. The games didn't deviate dramatically from their previous entries and both previous entries pre-date skyrim and have virtually no influence from any Bethesda game, in any tangible and easily recognisable way. They may have sought to attract the same market, they may have sought to compete graphically, but there's no direct comparison between their previous entries and any Bethesda game.

In DA:I's case the game appears more of an aborted MMO than a walking simulator which was then marketed as 'open-world' to attract Skyrim customers. But even here it's not just Skyrim customers, but the general trend of all AAA titles towards the GTA/Minecraft magic well. In this regard Elder Scrolls isn't even the original inspirer, but itself just another clone of other products. All Skyrim does is tell us that generic fantasy worlds can sell in this format. The DA style is still so far removed from the Skyrim style that players of both would find very little to compare.

In the case of Witcher 3 the inspiration is a bit less loose, but at it's maximum is just plastering a normal Witcher game into a more open world, to which Witcher wanted not to copy or emulate Skyrim, but to show how they could make an open world game that was better than Skyrim, in effect not being inspired by Skyrim's quality but being appalled by it. So, technically, this still counts as 'inspired by', but in a horribly loose way that infers, possibly incorrectly, that Skyrim is the granddaddy of the open-world sandbox, and even then, if you accept that perception, it's a very negative form of inspiration. Skyrim, the game that inspired someone to make their game better.

But even then, even if you accept all of that, you still have to account for how it was the 'open-world, a bit Skyrim-like' aspects of both Witcher 3 and DA:I that many people (citation needed, but common knowledge etc) found most unpleasant about those games. ie: the fans of previous installments.

ie: A cynical attempt to attract some customers from Skyrim with a few not necessarily Skyrim-specific features is such an extremely loose interpretation of inspiration that, though it may well qualify on a technicality, is not really what the idea of 'inspiring' means when people say they are inspired by something.
 
Self-Ejected

IncendiaryDevice

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Bethesda games are popular because they are the original 'open world fpp' the games where 'you can go anywhere and do whatever you want', 'see that mountain?'

I could write a long post about this, but i'll just write that they are not this, but could be.

Of all the resident Bethestards I think you'd be the best candidate to actually put a coherent defence of the inspiring aspects of Skyrim as you'd likey be the least likely to dive of the rage cliff and you'd hopefully view the topic with the irreverence it deserves.

No product is without influence. [almost] No product is without some glimmer of originality or quality. What would you say are the specifically unique aspects of RPG'ing that Skyrim brings to the table besides providing GTA in a generic fantasy environment. Is the mention of GTA itself so far removed from what Skyrim is that it's an unfair comparison. What aspects of Skyrim that are inherently of Bethesda's creation and/or fine tuning would you consider something that should be given more attention by not only other devs but also other RPG fans as a means to improve the genre as a whole?
 

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