Yeah ok, seriously guys, STOP MERGING THREADS FFS

[DarkUnderlord]

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...dry-series-thread.80585/page-118#post-2678788

If I keep seeing ginormous fucking mega-threads with ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY RELATED MERGED INTO IT I'll demote everyone and start again.

 

[Jaesun]

That was merged a long long time ago (by me) to collate a lot of Wizardry info into one thread for lots of information (there is some good info in there).

I don't think anyone has been doing any merging of stuff since you said not too.

 

[Crooked Bee]

So, just to make this clear, if someone posts a new thread saying "Hey guys I got a question about this Wizardry game" or posts impressions of his, say, Wizardry 6 playthrough, or something like that, it shouldn't be merged with the Wizardry thread? Why? I don't really care either way, but why have tens of 1- or 2-page Wizardry threads rather than keeping all Wizardry-related discussion in one, easy-to-check-out thread?

 

[Trash]

Because if we do that we'll have to merge about a gazillion fallout threads into one gigantic one which will crash the server and most likely the internet as well.

 

[Ulminati]

Most of the time I'm fighting urges to split threads rather than merge them though. Especially when one of the resident trolls tries to derail them and I turn their derail into its own lovely little cancerous tumor of idiocy. Like the HHR threads on herbs, medicine et al in science.

Haven't had to do that for a while tho. It's mostly moving GD stuff to GD and approving/denying stuff in the moderation queue.


But if someone decides to tick DU off by merging threads regardless, I'd like to nominate the 2 SC2 threads in strategy gaming!

 

[LundB]

So, just to make this clear, if someone posts a new thread saying "Hey guys I got a question about this Wizardry game" or posts impressions of his, say, Wizardry 6 playthrough, or something like that, it shouldn't be merged with the Wizardry thread? Why? I don't really care either way, but why have tens of 1- or 2-page Wizardry threads rather than keeping all Wizardry-related discussion in one, easy-to-check-out thread?

A thread that's hundreds of pages long and has a very broad topic is not easy to check out. Certainly not easier than using the search function and finding a more specific (and much more readable) thread.

 

[Grunker]

Each thread, though similar, often deal with their own specific topics in some way.

 

[Ulminati]

So you're saying everyone's a unique snowflake? :3

 

[Infinitron]

Crooked Bee has clearly been spending time on Something Awful...I agree with her though.

 

[Zed]

I kinda agree with lundb.

"favorite Halo 4 weapon?" - "Halo 4 secret level" -> don't touch, don't merge
"how do you beat this fucking encounter in kotc" - "best party for kotc?" -> don't touch, don't merge
"let's discuss the wire" - "anyone watched the wire?" -> merge if both threads are recent (~1 month), otherwise don't touch
"kotc 2 announced" - "OMG!!! kotc 2!!" -> merge, especially if both are 1st page, which they probably are in this case.

Same game = no; Same general topic = maybe; Same specific discussion = if recent
What evz, I'm not mod any longer so what do I care :sitbacknrelax:

 

[DarkUnderlord]

So, just to make this clear, if someone posts a new thread saying "Hey guys I got a question about this Wizardry game" or posts impressions of his, say, Wizardry 6 playthrough, or something like that, it shouldn't be merged with the Wizardry thread? Why? I don't really care either way, but why have tens of 1- or 2-page Wizardry threads rather than keeping all Wizardry-related discussion in one, easy-to-check-out thread?

^What Zed said. Try to avoid general "everything about this game should go into this thread" lumps because I could replace the Library with an "Interesting Books", "Music" and "TV" threads in General Discussion. Then we could merge every discussion about feminism into one topic. Retardo Land could just be a locked sticky thread in GD. The Tits, Butts and cosplay threads could be merged into "Porn". The collaborators forum could just be a thread in here called "Content".

Big threads are annoying to read unless you've been following them religiously and stuff gets lost in the general chatter. Especially if you're merging two big threads that both have lots of replies - everything gets mis-matched (because they're re-sorted by date) and replies don't make sense.

Basically if you can do a merge without anybody noticing, it's a good merge. If I get complaints from half the forum (as I have been), then it's a bad merge. It doesn't kill us to have a few threads about the same game, if they're following different tangents. It also gives us better google results as people come here searching for specific things.

 

[Infinitron]

Big threads are annoying to read unless you've been following them religiously

Sometimes that's kind of the point - it gets rid of the casual "drive-by posters". RPG Codex does not scale to your level, etc.

 

[Grunker]

What? No it doesn't. It makes them worse because now you can be sure they haven't read shit. And it makes it harder for the rest of us meanwhile. Megathreads suck unless they're the kind where each post starts a new discussion (i.e. BTE and stuff like that or "post all your screenshots here").

 

[Infinitron]

What? No it doesn't. It makes them worse because now you can be sure they haven't read shit.

I think in practice that's not what happens. Most people who want to participate have the common sense to examine the last 3 or so pages to see what's going on. But when people make new posts for things, too often it's something like "LOL BROS WHAT'S GOING ON SO I'M PLAYING THIS GAME". I personally don't like it when the separation between "forum" and "chatroom" is blurred like that.

Megathreads suck unless they're the kind where each post starts a new discussion

Well, yeah. That's why you mostly see them for games that have a lot of news and things to discuss coming out all the time. I agree that they're less useful for older games.

 

[Grunker]

^ Weren't we just discussing Wiz8 megathread?

 

[Infinitron]

^ Weren't we just discussing Wiz8 megathread?

I think we're discussing megathreads in general. I definitely wouldn't want people posting new threads for every new bit of Project Eternity news, of which there are a ton.

 

[LundB]

I think in practice that's not what happens. Most people who want to participate have the common sense to examine the last 3 or so pages to see what's going on. But when people make new posts for things, too often it's something like "LOL BROS WHAT'S GOING ON SO I'M PLAYING THIS GAME".

If anything, megathreads encourage that sort of post. A new poster coming into a ~6 page thread might actually read through all the pages and think about what people have said before posting. A new poster coming into a thread hundreds of pages long? Not a chance. Anyway, I'm pretty sure the decision has been made, so it doesn't seem like there's much point discussing it.

 

[Infinitron]

I think in practice that's not what happens. Most people who want to participate have the common sense to examine the last 3 or so pages to see what's going on. But when people make new posts for things, too often it's something like "LOL BROS WHAT'S GOING ON SO I'M PLAYING THIS GAME".

If anything, megathreads encourage that sort of post. A new poster coming into a ~6 page thread might actually read through all the pages and think about what people have said before posting. A new poster coming into a thread hundreds of pages long? Not a chance. Anyway, I'm pretty sure the decision has been made, so it doesn't seem like there's much point discussing it.

Like I said, he wouldn't need to read the whole thing, just the previous few pages so he can get understand the current context of the discussion. With new posts, there's never a context.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

What? No it doesn't. It makes them worse because now you can be sure they haven't read shit.

I think in practice that's not what happens. Most people who want to participate have the common sense to examine the last 3 or so pages to see what's going on. But when people make new posts for things, too often it's something like "LOL BROS WHAT'S GOING ON SO I'M PLAYING THIS GAME". I personally don't like it when the separation between "forum" and "chatroom" is blurred like that.

We have retardo land for posts like that.

Well, yeah. That's why you mostly see them for games that have a lot of news and things to discuss coming out all the time.

News updates, like say latest info from a KickStarter, would be fine if you've already got a related news updates thread for that game.

The issue is when someone wants to talk about something specific (EG: specifically talking about P:E's announced combat system) and it gets merged into the rest of the random shit.

I definitely wouldn't want people posting new threads for every new bit of Project Eternity news, of which there are a ton.

Honestly, at least those news items might actually get discussed.

What, exactly, are we "protecting" people from here? The opportunity to discuss specific elements that might interest them?

If anything, megathreads encourage that sort of post. A new poster coming into a ~6 page thread might actually read through all the pages and think about what people have said before posting. A new poster coming into a thread hundreds of pages long? Not a chance. Anyway, I'm pretty sure the decision has been made, so it doesn't seem like there's much point discussing it.

Like I said, he wouldn't need to read the whole thing, just the previous few pages so he can get understand the current context of the discussion. With new posts, there's never a context.

That's LundB's point. You've just created that chatroom you didn't want. You don't need to read the history, you can just jump in with random crap at any time!

Hell, take a look at the "Eternity" thread right now. What's in it? 698 pages of what? I want to talk about the combat system announced in Eternity and whether it will work. My post will just get lost in the swash of crap.

It's an utterly useless thread. No-one's going to bother reading it except the devotees who check it regularly. It's not a discussion thread. It's a wall-to-wall chat room conversation.

Let's start at page 670 as an example. Here's an update about monster design. For the rest of the page we talk about:
- Ghosts remind me of Clay Golems from BG 2
- Eh, my favorite type of encounter is an adventuring party that is similar in build as yours
- I think he meant fighting monsters is better than fighting a group of generic humans/goblins etc.

And then on page 671 we have:
- what is sn?
- screen name?
- Balance.
- Great new thread title!
- This seems to be the real problem, while his focus on game mechanics is commendable all seems to be in the function of balance for the sake of balance.
- 671 pages? On this? Did some major level thread merging occur?
- Thing is, Josh rarely actually uses the word "balance". It's all about "Why should players ever choose this?"
- Wait, wat happen? I'm not up to date and want a tl;dr or links.

Page 672:
- Nothing new happened, they're talking about how you won't get XP for killing in PE
- I'm with Sawyer on this, a game designer must seek a good balance between options of pretended similar value to make a good job
- Would be way more interesting is he added consequences instead of limitations...

Ok, so we've got a conversation about balance... And a random post about monsters with a few replies before it goes back to being about balance. Honestly feels like two conversations got merged in here.

Anyway, I'd like to contribute to the balance conversation but if we move forward 50 pages...
- The portraits typically show how much hit points the character has, so people do glance at them often.
- Portraits in IE games also shows status effect like free movement/dazed/drained/etc

We're talking about player portraits? WTF? Is this IRC?

The thread title should give you some indication as to what is being discussed. And if Eternity, Wasteland 2, Oblivion, or whatever the hot-shit of the day is generates a large number of different topics, that's not an issue. They don't all need to be merged into "We shall have one thread, and only thread where everything about this game is to be discussed". That is NOT the point of the Codex.

The point was to allow discussion and debate about interesting mechanics or specific things, instead shit gets lost in the tide.

 

[Infinitron]

DarkUnderlord Like I said in another thread, the news threads in the News forum serve well for more topical discussion for those who want it, while the megathread is more of a sandbox.

You've just created that chatroom you didn't want. You don't need to read the history, you can just jump in with random crap at any time!

No, you don't "need" to read it, but at least there is a history. When you have people creating new threads on a whim, there's never a history.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

DarkUnderlord Like I said, the news threads in the News forum serve well for more topical discussion for those who want it, while the megathread is more of a sandbox.

You've just created that chatroom you didn't want. You don't need to read the history, you can just jump in with random crap at any time!

No, you don't "need" to read it

Again, that's the problem.

You don't come to the Codex and start participating in a thread without reading it. If you want that, go to a fucking chat-room.

but at least there is a history.

Of what? 150 different random yet slightly related topics? Oh, on page 571 they were talking about AI. That's.. who cares, we don't need to read it, right?

What, if I quote someone from that page and start replying, you think I'll get that conversation going again? Have you even tried to scroll back through that many fucking pages in a thread to read that precious "history"?

More likely the thread will move on to whatever else someone wants to discuss, just like in a chatroom.

When you have people creating new threads on a whim, there's never a history.

Why, is the search feature broken again? Every thread about that game still exists. Better yet, that one where we discussed the combat system is called "Game XYZ's Combat System" and not "Super-Mega thread" where it's buried on page 427.

There's not meant to be a history for new threads. It's meant to signify a whole new topic of conversation, that is open to people who wish to discuss that particular topic. And I'm sorry, are we even inundated with people creating new threads "on a whim"?

 

[Infinitron]

And I'm sorry, are we even inundated with people creating new threads "on a whim"?

No, we aren't. That's because people actually like the megathreads, for the most part. As far as I'm aware of, the Project Eternity and Wasteland 2 threads weren't actually created on purpose, they kind of evolved into megathreads on their own. (the Torment thread, I created from the start to be a megathread, and people were cool with that too)

Better yet, that one where we discussed the combat system is called "Game XYZ's Combat System" and not "Super-Mega thread" where it's buried on page 427.

Thing is, there isn't much need for such a thread. The way it works with these Kickstarter games is that we discuss the latest news for 5-10 pages, then move on. There's only so much you can say about a topic before exhausting all available information.

These games have a TON of stuff coming out about them. A tweet here, an interview there, a video over here, an article over there. Not everything can be easily catalogued into a thread about a specific topic. Not everything really deserves its own thread. The advantage of the megathread is that the conversation can freely, organically shift from topic to topic as new information arrives. Nothing's off topic as long as it's about the game. You always know where to go to post or to read the latest news.

However, as I said, there will typically be Kickstarter updates announcing news related to particular topics such as "Combat System", and the threads for those updates in the News forum serve as a secondary locus of discussion for those topics specifically.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

I don't really have an issue if it's all news posts or we have a natural mega-thread but it's when *everything* about that game gets merged. Even stuff that some deliberately creates as a separate topic (EG: The WIzardy play-through) that then gets merged into the "Oh, we only have one thread for each game now" thread.

 

[Jaesun]

My quick 2 cents of observation on this: What IS important is what encourages discussion and promotes that?

I think sometimes splitting off a topic can be a good thing if a conversation starts altering off mainly about the main thread and becomes its self a good topic. For example this: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...ck-in-space-now-with-turn-based-combat.80120/ went from hell yes! These guys now want to make a turn based space dungeon crawl! FUCK YEAH! But actually turned into a discussion of turn based dungeon crawl VS real time dungeon crawl which is better and why? DISCUSS! (But in a good way). And was actually very fascinating and that topic interested me.

The discussion of RT vs TB dungeon crawl was actually very good, but was no longer (in a way) related to the actual topic. In this instance I would have liked to have split it off.

But in my observations what happens when there is another thread about 2 games, like take for example there is 1 thread about Combat in Project Eternity and a Project Eternity MEGA thread, what always happens is the discussion on just the combat thread always finally reverts to general Project Eternity discussions. It will always just go full derail.

For example the Wasteland 2 forum vigilance thread, this was a thread specifically about retards posting shit on the Wasteland 2 forums. And what did it turn into? General Wasteland 2 discussions. I then merged them into the Wasteland 2 thread.

Having a MEGA thread stops the shitposting of stuff like OMG! The new PE interface is shit! LOL DISCUSS!!! thread, we can just merge it into the MEGA thread and that it that. But I don't at all have a problem if people want to discuss a certain aspect of a certain game, but it always ends up derailing and then becomes a second general discussion about the same game that we already have a thread for.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

I dislike the notion that every thread about Fallout, for example, will ultimately end up merged into one giant unnavigationable "Fallout" thread consisting of some several thousand pages.

But in my observations what happens when there is another thread about 2 games, like take for example there is 1 thread about Combat in Project Eternity and a Project Eternity MEGA thread, what always happens is the discussion on just the combat thread always finally reverts to general Project Eternity discussions. It will always just go full derail.

The problem with that is if both threads have been continuing for some time, then merging them completely buries any of the combat discussion. As posts are sorted by date, you now have mis-matched posts making no sense because an early combat post is now surrounded by walls of general derp. If you now want to look for the combat discussion, rather than finding an old 5 or 10 page thread that died, you have to dig out individual posts in a several hundred page thread. Many of which now are mis-matched from their replies.

Once upon a time a thread reaching 30 pages+ was a rare thing. We now regularly have threads passing 50 pages, some at 100 and rising while others are nearing 1,000.

This problem didn't exist before we had the "merge threads" function. Duplicate threads got Retardo'd quickly.

It's ok to let old threads die once in a while.

I don't mind there naturally being large general threads about games. My issue is when other long threads that stood on their own get merged into it. I might have read a thread about "Wizardry 6-8 single party playthrough" but I'll be fucked if I'm going to wade through a 100+ page general "The Wizardry Series Thread" hoping I might stumble across that content.

We're also getting even more general threads. A thread specifically about one Wizardry will get lumped in with every other Wizardry game. Anything remotely related to being a Gold Box game, bammo! It ends up buried in a "general Gold Box thread".

If we're really going down path, we may as well merge the two separate forums together and put all the cRPG games in one big fat-ass "cRPG thread". And all the KickStarter's can go into a "KickStarter Games Thread".