Wizardry Wizardy 6 party creation

[Regdar]

The party I tried at first was valkyrie, two fighters, ranger, bard and bishop - mimicking a party I saw on a screenshot somewhere on the web. But I got fucked by 4 rats right in the beginning of the game (as in, they managed to kill one of my fighters before I killed them). I've come to realize that someone unfamiliar with the game can't possibly create a party that will beat the game on their first try (without class switching, but it sounds too technical for me to get into atm).

Guys I know you know this shit, so please teach me party creation in Wizardry 6. I've read the manual but it only gives descriptions, not recommendations, and I've read that bad decisions at the start of the game can bite you in the ass later, or rather completely bite your ass off by forcing you to restart because of an unbeatable encounter.

Just tell me what classes to get and which stats to emphasize for them. I'm not into powergaming at all, but if you believe that rolling until you get all 18's is more relevant here than in IWD then I will concur. I've read that the game is unapologetically hardcore and will fuck you over twice with little or no provocation.

Sorry for the messy post, thanks in advance.

 

[octavius]

I've read that the game is unapologetically hardcore and will fuck you over twice with little or no provocation.

Tell me about it.
I was about halfway through when my party set off a fireball trap. There may have been an encounter in the same square as well. Anyway, my party was barely alive and I saved.
When next I reloaded the game the same fucking fireball went off, killing my entire party.
Fuck you very much, Sir-Tech!

Sorry, can't help you with your question, but apparently Ninja Fairies are all the rage in Wiz 6.

 

[Regdar]

Tell me about it.
I was about halfway through when my party set off a fireball trap. There may have been an encounter in the same square as well. Anyway, my party was barely alive and I saved.
When next I reloaded the game the same fucking fireball went off, killing my entire party.
Fuck you very much, Sir-Tech!

Sweet Jesus.

Actually, hardcore is pretty much right up my alley, as long as creating a balanced party isn't the biggest challenge of the game.

Some five years ago I would've trial and error'ed the shit out of this game, with no rerolls and some mental mods on top, but I just don't have the patience for it like I used to.

 

[Jaesun]

I normally use:

2 valks, 1 bard, 1 priest, 1 samurai and 1 thief

EDIT: Typo. I meant to type Priest instead of Bishop.

 

[Regdar]

I normally use:

2 valks, 1 bard, 1 bishop, 1 samurai and 1 thief

Thanks for the input. A couple of questions:

1. What stats to emphasize for these classes? Valks for example have all stats in the 10-12 range, making it impossible to deduce (other than the fact they're fighters who need str and vit) which stats to improve.

2. Would you say rerolling to get at least a certain amount of bonus points advisable for a beginner? Say, reroll until I get 18 bonus points minimum?

3. I know hybrids are well represented in Wiz 6 (not so much wiz 8 from what I've read), but I've also read that having a mage is a must. Also, how bad is fighter compared to hybrid valk/samurai?

I've also read that as far as healers go, priest is better than bishop. Your comments?

That's all I can think of at the moment.

 

[Excidium]

Your party composition is up to you...only thing that helps a LOT in the early game is a Bard, because of their sleep song.

1. What stats to emphasize for these classes? Valks for example have all stats in the 10-12 range, making it impossible to deduce (other than the fact they're fighters who need str and vit) which stats to improve.

Yeah, well what stats are good are p. obvious in the manual. But the things is, you need to get the stats that aren't just good for the class you have, but that are near or at the requirement for the class you want to change later.

2. Would you say rerolling to get at least a certain amount of bonus points advisable for a beginner? Say, reroll until I get 18 bonus points minimum?

Get something to drink, put on some good music and reroll until you get the best bonus your patience allows.

3. I know hybrids are well represented in Wiz 6 (not so much wiz 8 from what I've read), but I've also read that having a mage is a must. Also, how bad is fighter compared to hybrid valk/samurai?

What I know is that fighter need less stat bonus...I guess is for people without patience, heh. Didn't look much attractive compared to the other classes.

I've also read that as far as healers go, priest is better than bishop. Your comments?

I like priests better too...when I played wiz6 my plan was to change my priest to mage and my mage to priest at some point. That way I could be good in the two schools instead of mediocre on both like the Bishop is.

 

[mondblut]

It matters little what classes your party starts with. What is truly important is that each party member eventually serves some time in every class present.

 

[Ammar]

My last party with comments:

1. Fighter -> later switch to Lord

Yes, I know Lord is subpar. Fighter -> Valkyrie is a superior choice, but I like to vary gender and class a little.

2. Valkyrie -> Samurai

Gains levels faster in the beginning, gains some essential priest spells. Put all skill points in theology as a Valkyrie, then distribute between Kirijutsu and Thaumaturgy.

3. Thief -> Ninja

Dedicated Thief makes beginning easier. Plus, you get some skill points for Ninjutsu. Hide whenever you can to develop it faster.

4. Priest -> Valkyrie

Quickly learn priest spells, then switch and learn some more. Valkyries get a very good polearm, so they are very powerful in the fourth slot.

5. Mage

I don't tend to switch levels here, since mages are incredibly powerful. Start with Fire and Water spells, so you quickly gain spell points here.

6. Bard

Wasn't too happy in the long run. Tried switching to Ranger, but didn't help much. Useful in the beginning for infinite spell points, though.

---------------
General notes

1. I created the party so that it was not too hard to roll and so I had some points extra
2. Use Faeries for Mage (extra MP regen) and Thief (for Wiz 7 CoC). Don't take Lizardmen if you want to cast spells.
3. Give everyone at least 16 Vit for extra HP and MP regen.
4. I disagree that starting class does not matter. It determines MP regen and is therefore important. Even if you always travel to fountains which is very tedious it's still useful since you have to do it less often. That's the main reason why I like to have a Mage and a Priest for heavy-duty spellcasting.

Not a PG-Party but easily good enough to complete the game without long frustrating passages.

 

[Regdar]

Your party composition is up to you...only thing that helps a LOT in the early game is a Bard, because of their sleep song.

Not really, man. It says some standard stuff about strength affecting melee and carry weight, dexterity affecting armor class etc.

This calls for a hypothetical situation. Say I have a female human valkyrie with 8 points left over after getting minimal stats for that class. Where do I put them?

What I'm also interested in is whether there's a stat like intelligence in fallout, that every character regardless of class should have.

My last party with comments:

1. Fighter -> later switch to Lord

Yes, I know Lord is subpar. Fighter -> Valkyrie is a superior choice, but I like to vary gender and class a little.

So after changing class you keep the abilities and spells of the previous one, right? Does that make changing class necessary for a balanced party or is it more of a "powergamer/second run" thing?

 

[Ammar]

[quote="Regdar"
This calls for a hypothetical situation. Say I have a female human valkyrie with 8 points left over after getting minimal stats for that class. Where do I put them?

What I'm also interested in is whether there's a stat like intelligence in fallout, that every character regardless of class should have.
[/quote]

Vit. Vit > 16 gives a bonus to both hit points and MP regen rate. For the regen rate you need to have this at creation, afterwards it does not matter. There is also a bug that Carry Capacity is determined by your starting str so armour wearing fighters (Lord, Fighter, Valkyrie, Samurai) should get a decent value here. Or install the fix for that (google for it).

Also if you want to class change your char later make certain that you are not that far from the stats required for the new class. I try to start with at least New Requirement -2 in every stat. Otherwise you have to either farm certain items or reload a lot when levelling.

So after changing class you keep the abilities and spells of the previous one, right? Does that make changing class necessary for a balanced party or is it more of a "powergamer/second run" thing?

Yes, you keep abilites with some notable exceptions. Which items you can use depends on your current class. In Wiz 6 this also included bard instruments. Everyone can use Ninjutsu to hide but it only decreases your AC if you are a Monk or a Ninja. Character level is also an important stat so you shouldn't try to change classes very late (before you reach a certain level XP requirement double each level then it's a fixed amount).

It's not absolutely required, some people switch a lot to get everyone multiple spellbooks + 100 Ninjutsu for hiding. Some fights in Wiz 7 are difficult without that, but Wiz 6 is more forgiving. I usually try to get one class change per character, since this provides some change without descending too much into metagaming.

 

[octavius]

I guess you need to be an accountant armed with a speadshet to get the most out of this roll playing game...

 

[Excidium]

Not really...it isn't much different from NWN2 in that matter.

But if you don't make the most out of the character development in Wiz6 there isn't much reason to play it.

 

[kmonster]

Your first party was powerful enough to beat the game like almost every somewhat balanced party. Just gain some levels and seemingly impossible enemies won't even hurt you any more.
Class switching isn't necessary to finish the game, I even think the game was balanced for playing without class switching.

W6 is no ironman game, it's normal that you will die often in the beginning (even if you create super characters and don't forget to equip them), for this you have save/reload, save after every successful battle or other action and reload if a character gets killed/poisoned/... .
Just keep on running or turning around in areas with easy random encounters if you need to level up.

Most important is (I'd take exactly) 16 vitality for the bonus to spell regeneration rate. The remaining points should be put into strength for carrying capacity, int and pie can be ignored, even for casters, vit is the casting stat.
It's worth spending time rolling for 18 bonus points, you won't be able to change spell regeneration rate or carrying capacity later.
Put all skill points you get into the academic casting skill.

Fighters and thieves aren't worth it, valkyries can cast spells and fight as good as fighters and bards can handle the thieving skills.


A bard helps a lot, the sleep spell from the lute is extremely powerful in the beginning and stays useful until the end, bards can also pick locks and cast mage spells. I'd take a felpurr, raise vit to 16 and put the rest into str.
Put all the skillpoints into the academic casting skills, skullduggery can improve when you try to pick locks or disarm traps, whether you're successful (can be enforced with powerword:reload, don't save after a failed attempt, retry until the lock is opened or jammed).

Later in the game you'll find very powerful equipment only a samurai can use, therefore I'd also create a felpurr samurai, if you cannot roll good enough to get 16 vit try to get at least 16+ str and 8+ vit, ignore the other stats.
You can also start as mage with almost the stats needed for switching to samurai, 12-12-7-16-11-13-10, it's also possible to switch the mage to bard and the bard to samurai.

For using almost all weapons and armor (and get priest spells) you'll want 1-2 valkyries, dwarves have the best stats for this, with a roll of 18 you can have 16 vit and 15 str.
On the long run it's better if you start in another class instead.
With a roll of 18 you can create a female dwarf priest with stats 16-6-12-16-9-10-8 so you get better spellcasting and carrying capacity.
You can also create a female dwarf fighter with stats 18-6-10-16-9-10-8 so you get better carrying capacity and more skillpoints. Before switching class you can put all skillpoints into scouting.
Both builds only require stats to raise by one at level up, optimal level for switching to valkyrie is 7-8.

Since psionics suck you might want to create a monk for combat and casting psionic spells, take a fairy for spell regeneration and AC bonus.

For alchemist spells you can just create a fairy alchemist (16 vit and rest into str) or a fairy alchemist/ranger/samurai (if so increase kirijitsu) who will switch to ninja, you can even have both an alchemist and ninja in the party.

If you want a bishop start as faerie mage or priest so you get better spell regeneration.


I beat the game with the following party (not optimal but I didn't want to switch classes, rolled for 18)

f dwarf valkyrie 15-6-11-16-10-11-8
m felpurr samurai 16-11-7-11-12-14-10
f felpurr bard 11-10-7-16-12-12-12
m dracon ninja 14-10-10-13-12-12-6
m faerie monk 13-11-13-9-10-14-12
f faerie bishop 6-15-15-8-10-14-13

 

[Jaesun]

Keep one thing in mind, when you change classes, your stats change, and when you level up a RANDOM stat goes up. I ONCE did a party that all took levels of ninja for the god like hide ability, but due to the random stat on level up it was fucking hair ripping.

I could have used a hex editor or savegame editor, but those are for fags.

 

[sirfink]

There's a little mod which greatly increases the chance of rolling decent numbers. Use that or roll 2 hours to get good enough stats to make one of the cooler classes.

Your mana pool is bigger if you start out as a spellcaster class -- I think you also get increased mana regen.

So I'd recommend an all spellcaster party at level 1 and then at some point (even just at level 2 though a lot of folks would say level 7 is the ideal) switch some or even all to melee classes. Make logical choices: alchemist becomes a ninja, priest becomes a valkyrie or lord, mage becomes a samurai, etc. Bards are cool and I don't bother multiclassing them.

Is it hard as hell at the start? Yes, but every old school RPG does that. I can't think of an RPG pre-1995 or so that didn't start you out with 4 hit points and make you fight 4 rats that could kill you in a single hit. Once you hit level 2 or 3 things get much easier.

 

[Regdar]

kmonster, now that's what I've been looking for. Thank you sir.

I played for a couple of hours last night. The game's really fucking addictive. I started with valk, samurai, fighter, thief, bard and priest. I quickly realized the thief couldn't attack from spot 4 so had to change the order so that valk with the reach weapon would take his place. Bard song is overpowered. You can put a stack of 6 to sleep in one turn and then just use thrusts on the second to penetrate their armor. By the way I found a harmonium and when my bard plays it, it causes monsters to become irritated. What the fuck is that? I also gave scouting to the the lizardman fighter - don't know if it's a worthy skill and I haven't noticed any secret doors yet.

I gained 4 levels with all of them, which I thought was pretty awesome. It made me curious, however, if any of the academia skills not related to spellcasting were any good, as in good enough to spend bonus points on (mythology? artifacts?). I've been increasing my priest's oratory and theology skills, is that the way to go until they both hit 100?

Also, am I correct in assuming that bards aren't restricted in their thieving skills compared to thieves like in D&D? So at equal levels of skullduggery, thief doesn't have an advantage over bard as far as lockpicking goes? In that case I'll probably drop the thief and take mage instead.

One thing I gotta share bros is I've stumbled on a rogue/scallywag type merchant in the dungeons, and I was pretty goddamn impressed with the conversation I had with him. After reading the manual I decided to try a few basic phrases with him, like "who are you?" and "heard any rumors lately?", to which he replied with something about a treasure chest, and I was able to advance that topic to the point where I had to tell him where the captain buried his treasure in exchange for a password. I didn't know, so I'll probably have to come back later, but I was impressed with how that whole encounter went down. Maybe I was caught by surprise but I don't think dialogue systems get more interactive than this. Put a :D on my face.

Would appreciate it if you could clear up the skills thing. Meanwhile, I'm looking forward to my next game session.

 

[Ammar]

Don't increase oratory. It goes up all by itself when you cast spells. I like having some Mythology but only on someone who does not need the skill points. Generally I recommend only increasing your main spellcasting skill and Kirijutsu if you have it.

 

[Regdar]

I just read the stat descriptions in the manual again, and here's what it says about Piety:

...affects the ability to develop skills and to learn new spells... affects the amount of spell power a character gets when he or she gains levels, and further affects how quickly the spell power is recouped.

Vitality says something about increasing hit points, resurrection and resistances, and that's it.

So, what it is, bros? Is there a bug which makes VIT act as PIE?

intelligence affects ability to cast and learn spells, determine traps on treasure chests and any other task which requires mental mettle. intelligence also affects a character's ability to learn new skills

Does this mean a thief with high intelligence will be better at inspecting containers for traps than a thief with low intelligence, given that skullduggery is the same?

Does intelligence affect the amount of skill points you get at the start or at each level up?

Speaking of bonus skill points, are they determined by a random roll, or are they dependant on INT/class/race?

Is personality any good?

For hybrid classes like Valk, should I focus on increasing their spellcasting skill (theology) from level one and let weapon skills/oratory level up on their own?

 

[Ammar]

Pie does not affect spell regeneration at all. Some of the deeper mechanics of skills are still unclear, so I have no idea whether intelligence affects skulduggery.

Skill points at level up do depend on your class. Also note that at the lower levels some of your skill points are automatically put into your primary skills (i.e. Thaumaturgy for Mage). It SEEMS to work like this:

1. Roll for total skill points
2. Roll how many are put into your primary skill automatically. Do that for each primary skill.
3. Distribute those that remain yourself (may very well be zero at lower levels)

Interestingly enough the result of roll 2 seems to depend somewhat on your stats. It's all very strange.
Roll 2 becomes smaller as you increase in level. Fighters have many skill points to distribute because they have no primary skill. Int and Pie seem to mostly do nothing, with one notable exception:

They give a small bonus to the total spell points you gain when levelling. According to this

http://www.softwarespecialties.com/dcfo ... /222.html#

you gain

stat_bonus + spells_known*2 + regeneration + 1d(skill/20)-1

spell points per Realm per level. Stat bonus is 1 when the rounded average of Int and Pie > 13 and is 2 if > 16. This isn't very noticable in comparison to the other factors.Pie also affects mp regen in Wiz 7, so it makes more sense there.

You can deduce some of the inner workings of the game with mad god's Cosmic Forge Editor (google it!) by selecting game information and experimenting with Class, Race and Stats.

Don't worry about Karma and Personality.



For the Valkyrie put everything into Theology. For a Samurai or Ninja Kirijutsu is also a good choice, since every 5 points of Kirijutsu gives you a 1% chance of a hit being critical (critical hits always insta-kill). The actual chance is still modified by how high your level is compared to that of the monster, though.

 

[Regdar]

Ammar

I feel like I'm ready to dive into this game without the fear of making a mistake that will fuck me over later in the game. Thanks to everyone for their input.

 

[kmonster]

Every character gets 5-10 skill points at level up, independent of stats, race, class or anything else.
Depending only on class and level you might have to put some of those points into certain skills.

For traps and locks only the skullduggery skill seems to matter, nothing else.

Artifacts, mythology and scribe are useless. Mythology improves on its own, the others can be raised by using wands and scrolls from inventory if you want but you don't need them.

Consider personality useless. It doesn't hurt if you have the character with the highest personality talk, but don't waste points for it.

Always raise the spellcasting skill to 100 before raising other skills. Scouting lets the character tell where it's worth searching, it's worth maxing for one character, but if you only have casters you can use the "detect secret" spell instead.

 

[Regdar]

Guys I need your help once again.

I downloaded the Wizardry 6 ROM from a site called OldGames.sk, assuming it's the original thing. However, after watching a couple of LP vids on youtube, and downloading DosBox and the ROM again from a different site, I am now 100% certain that the ROM I got from OldGames.sk is patched.

The full extent of the patching I can only guess, however one thing is that bonus points are very easy to roll. You know, when I was creating my party I used to frequently get 24 bonus points and think why everyone was talking about rolling chars as if it was hard or tedious. On the new ROM, though, rolling is a bitch. 15 minutes and max I had was 15 bonus points. Another feature of the Oldgames.sk ROM is that it runs veeeery slowly and sometimes locks up, forcing me to restart. Also, you can find Sword of striking in the "open me second" chest right at the start of the game.

I couldn't find any patch notes or anything so I don't know the full list of changes, but I assume there are many more, as I haven't managed to get far.

So guys my question is has anyone played this patched version of Wiz6 and what they would recommend me to do. I usually don't play with unofficial and community patches, but if this fixes something critical or possibly gamebreaking I will change my stance.

 

[Jaesun]

Try the version on abandonia. It's odd Home of the Underdogs does not have any Wizardry's after 3...

 

[Excidium]

I played with the Abandonia version. It did have the sword of striking on the chest but didn't have the rolling patch, I remember because it took me the whole night to get decent rolls on everyone.

 

[Regdar]

I believe I have the original ROM now, although not from abandonia. I will continue to play it, then.

Now if only I can get the dosbox sound to work. edit: turns out it was the ROM. I downloaded the one from Abandonia and it worked. Thanks again.

PS. I just managed to find Sword of striking in the second chest once again on the new ROM - I believe it depends on who opens the chest (fighter in my case).