Game News Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Update #53: The End Is Coming; Huge Beta Update on Steam

[Curious_Tongue]

I remember finding the Redguard manual somewhere and reading it.

Apparently, it was more interesting than the actual game.

 

[Makagulfazel]

In terms of health, stress reduction (on all level like chemical and memory bound effects) and time consumption, a jogging in the park and autogene training would be much better. Also for the enviroment.

 

[Gary Indiana]

Crawlkill, show me on the doll where the bad box touched you.

 

[crawlkill]

A long, long time ago, likely before crawkill was even born, in the year MCMLXXXVI to be exact, there was a game that was released called Might & Magic Book One: The Secret of the Inner Sanctum, for Apple ][ and other formats.

This game was presented in a very large (by today's standards) game box, measuring some 9 inches wide by about 11 inches long, had a large spiral-bound manual with sleeves to hold the 5.25" installation diskettes, and contained other miscellaneous goodies as well. This was in an era long before the internet, long before the notion of digital downloads, obviously, but it was not uncommon to see games presented in this way back then.

A few months ago, some 28 years later, I somehow came across the manual for this game, which had laid buried in some storage box I had completely forgotten about. Holding in my hand this relic of computer gaming, this veritable artifact of my youth, felt surreal. It was nearly a religious experience. Leafing through its pages once again, admiring its hand-drawn artwork as if I were a kid again, reveling in its classic old-school feel, I almost got the same pleasure that I had the day that I bought the game, all those years ago, and I was glad. It made me genuinely happy.

I cannot actually play this game anymore, since I no longer own an Apple ][. There really would be no desire to do so because as we all know reminiscing about the old classics is sometimes much better than forcing them to resurrect themselves in their decrepit old 4-color graphics again -- they're often just better off locked away in our secure and treasured flesh-based memory banks.

But the joy that I experienced in holding that manual again, the momentary bliss I felt being transported back nearly three decades to a simpler time, to a more wondrous time, was rapturous. Somehow I don't think I'll ever be able to get that same feeling with some Steam app in another thirty years, assuming I live that long...

When I was a kid, I decided to recolor the Warcraft 1 and Diablo 1 manuals. Who knows exactly why. I don't remember being especially moved by either; I just liked em, and wanted to make em my own.

I ran into both the manuals I'd torn those pages out from and the pseudo-manuals I'd turned them into a few years ago. yes, I enjoyed the experience. it was a sweet reminiscence on my childhood.

but it was an indicator of an era.

today, we should hope that the child from twenty years down the line finds the mod he hosted twenty years ago against Wasteland 2 and gets nostalgia. that's the thing about nostalgia: it's to do with your having had an experience, not specifically with what you experienced.

I can look back on my absurd crayon-colored manuals with fondness and affection without needing to hold people making -the games they were based on- hostage over their creating manuals for me. it doesn't -denigrate- the childhood experiences we have and treasure to -not require them to be perpetuated.-

 

[FeelTheRads]

So, tell me. I suppose you donated to a lot of Kickstarters and are annoyed by all these problems caused by boxes. I suppose you also donated to W2? How much did you donate? Am I correct to assume that since for you only the game itself has any value you got the lowest tier of $15 or $20 or whatever it was?

 

[crawlkill]

'reproached reason' says google translator, but i doubt that this is the right translation from german. What i mean is: one states a minor reason, while in truth it is a differnt one.

What's the German for it? It'd be cool to know.

"Pretense," I believe, is the word our deutsche Bruder sucht. Veräuschung would be an okay translation. Sadly...so ist's nich. The reasons I think boxing is unnecessary are exactly as stated.

 

[crawlkill]

So, tell me. I suppose you donated to a lot of Kickstarters and are annoyed by all these problems caused by boxes. I suppose you also donated to W2? How much did you donate? Am I correct to assume that since for you only the game itself has any value you got the lowest tier of $15 or $20 or whatever it was?

Are you--fully--lliterate? Are you fully human? I pledged the $30 digital tier. The $15 tier was only available at the very beginning of the campaign, which I missed. I'm proud to have given then an extra $15 cost-free dollars. I probably would again.

Every Kickstarter postmortem I've read has said that the digital tiers have generated more profit than the physical tiers.

meat you are meat you are just meat

 

[Curious_Tongue]

If it weren't for GOG, boxed copies would be the only way to retain some "ownership" of the game.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Every Kickstarter postmortem I've read has said that the digital tiers have generated more profit than the physical tiers.

Examples please. All I heard from you sounds like the kind who haven't done their research before asking people for money.

Also hurr durr, retard, cheap digital tiers sold more than the expensive physical ones, what a fucking surprise.
And I can guarantee you my $100 for physical goods made inXile more money than your $30 for a shitty download.
Unless inXile are idiots who sold physical tiers for too low, that is.

When you're willing to pay $100 for a download (I'm not) come back and preach about saving the earth and poor Kickstarters.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

I think some of the early kickstarters got their pricing wrong and offered too much (not just boxes but shirts, figurines and other stuff guaranteed to make crawlkill froth at the mouth) for the price, but I think most devs have learned given recent campaigns. And I guess where they really make a big margin is on the signed collector boxes, eg: charging $300 for a signed version of the $150 box, just raking in dollars from collectors who value that sort of thing.

Swen at Larian got annoyed with the hassle after people complained about the Steam patching on the physical disk and he offered separate non-Steam disks, so he said he wouldn't do physical tiers again. But we'll see if/when they do another campaign. After all, look at Inxile who had the experience of WL2 but still had physical tiers in the Torment campaign. They wouldn't do it if it didn't benefit them.

 

[crawlkill]

If it weren't for GOG, boxed copies would be the only way to retain some "ownership" of the game.

and you value that? it's important for you to "own" something? it's more important for you to "own" something than for the people who made it (...all assuming rights haven't shifted across the corporate shitosphere in the meantime, which they probably have) to continue making money on it? ownership is bullshit. availability and revenue and revenue are the only two logistical elements that matter. if you're obsessed with "owning" something, not just "having" it, then you're...yeah. meds. medication. for you. right now.

Examples please.

okay, so answer number one is "this thread itself," but beyond that:

#2 http://theonyxpath.com/kickstarter-shipping-update/

and ohhh, I can't find the link, but if you'd like to look up RPPR's Caleb Stokes' "No Security," he regrets out loud losing money on shipping and handling in sending out cast figures.

there's a basically infinite number more. didn't Divinity's recent release say they'd never do physical again? I seem to recall. like...if you're not...aware of the bankrupting nature of physical shipping, you haven't been paying attention.

 

[Darkzone]

crawkill you know that this are P&P RPG books? And that shelfs are made mostly for books? And that today the sending is made with lists on computers and that most of the mistakes happen by the data input and execution with the reading out of the order on the computer? I'm just asking because one can never be sure, in modern times.

So the problems are with sending of books by the kickstarter groups / projects, and not with computer game boxes. So boxes are evil and books are evil and naturally as a result then are also the shelf is evil.
Is that what you trying to say to us? If so then i think i begin to understand you, but i do not agree with you. Because i think that every victory depends on its preparation, therefore also the handling of the physical goods, if one may assume that doing a successful Kickstarter and deliver it's goods in a correct way, is a victory.

Also 'Veräuschung' as in pretense, is writen this way 'Vortäuschung' or even more vile the 'Verarschung' (making an arse out of someone by deliberately deceiving him).
There is a reason that i do not use this, because it has a connotation of accusation towards inXile, and that is what i do not want.

 

[King Crispy]

When I was a kid, I decided to recolor the Warcraft 1 and Diablo 1 manuals.

Yup. I knew you were still basically just a kid.

 

[crawlkill]

crawkill you know that this are P&P RPG books? And that shelfs are made mostly for books? And that today the sending is made with lists on computers and that most of the mistakes happen by the data input and execution with the reading out of the order on the computer? I'm just asking because one can never be sure, in modern times.

So the problems are with sending of books by the kickstarter groups / projects, and not with computer game boxes. So boxes are evil and books are evil and naturally as a result then are also the shelf is evil.
Is that what you trying to say to us? If so then i think i begin to understand you, but i do not agree with you. Because i think that every victory depends on its preparation, therefore also the handling of the physical goods, if one may assume that doing a successful Kickstarter and deliver it's goods in a correct way, is a victory.

Also 'Veräuschung' as in pretense, is writen this way 'Vortäuschung' or even more vile the 'Verarschung' (making an arse out of someone by deliberately deceiving him).
There is a reason that i do not use this, because it has a connotation of accusation towards inXile, and that is what i do not want.

Vortäuschung makes WAY more sense, I dunno how my eyes skipped the T. I thought the metaphor was to do with "forward/outward expression," rather than falsehood, as in "äußern" + "vor." my mistake.

you understand, though, that shipping is indifferent to the nature of your product? It's still obscenely expensive, incoherently expensive, unreliably expensive (I can't find the Kickstarter after-actions I'd like to to citation needed omg, but I've read -several- that said "in the two years between when we Kickstarted and when we delivered, shipping costs tripled").

at least the shipping of physical books gives the end user a slightly different experience--reading a hard copy rather than a PDF. a shipping of a physical game affects nothing but the "unboxitization" and the "shelfishness," which -nobody gives no fucks about except for the spergs who blurt about it on forums and scare devs into offering it as an option,- and denigrates the content by implying that it's only worthwhile if it comes in a box (again, not my words, the words of "enjoy your shitty download").

When I was a kid, I decided to recolor the Warcraft 1 and Diablo 1 manuals.

Yup. I knew you were still basically just a kid.

you remember that this came out eighteen years ago, right? are you suggesting that when I'm thirty, not just a callow 25-year-old, that I will learn the value of BOX?

#howilearnedtostopthirtyingandlovethebox

you fucks aren't even interesting enough to deserve my contempt, why am I wasting my time trying to shame those who have none

 

[mindx2]

not just a callow 25-year-old

 

[Makagulfazel]

1826 additional days on this world can beat a lot of wisdom into you. Jus' saying.

Maybe you'll stop arguing about boxes

 

[crawlkill]

do boxes make you feel further from death? please explain.

the internet is going to marvel over this thread ten years from now. it will be the subject of a Vice article. "there was a time," they will tersely report, "when sick, powerless men insisted that ideas be moved around in boxes."

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

except for the spergs who blurt about it on forums and scare devs into offering it as an option

Had to chuckle about this bit about 'scaring' the devs into offering something. I just remembered you were the guy who spent $230 on the Fallen London MMO and annoyed the devs to such an extent they refunded your cash just to get rid of you

In the long history of abusive messages you've sent me or my team, this is, I think, also the worst. I don't know why you think you have the right to talk to other human beings like this, simply because they work in a support role. The good thing about being an indie creator is that I don't have to put up with it.

 

[crawlkill]

except for the spergs who blurt about it on forums and scare devs into offering it as an option

Had to chuckle about this bit about 'scaring' the devs into offering something. I just remembered you were the guy who spent $230 on the Fallen London MMO and annoyed the devs to such an extent they refunded your cash just to get rid of you

In the long history of abusive messages you've sent me or my team, this is, I think, also the worst. I don't know why you think you have the right to talk to other human beings like this, simply because they work in a support role. The good thing about being an indie creator is that I don't have to put up with it.

You, uh, read the rest of that post, right? These are the devs who threatened me with legal action because of a sarcastic post that didn't even remotely imply what they claimed it did on a locked, private forum. Twice. What. I'm not at fault for the emotional instability of Failbetter devs. The emails are there. You can read them. Like...I don't know how to help you, here.

it actually hurts to look directly at you, the eye can't find anywhere to focus

assuming you're functionally literate, you will have observed a) I never asked for a refund b) I told him not to refund me c) I never made any kind of threat against him d) I never even wanted a box e) I wished his product well, just not -him- g) wait that's not the letter that comes after E but I'm not convinced you can read anyway

 

[byFall]

Boxed copies used to have this charm to them, though nowadays I don`t really see a differnce bewtween a boxed copy and GOG .exe. Still there`s a big one between those two and a Steam one.

 

[Darkzone]

Hmm crawlkill... i have read the entire thing that you have posted. And while a, b are true the c is disputable. In business life you never say something about a case or that you will sue someone (not even as a joke), because this is quite serious. Is seems that you had a history of complaining on their support, and with the fuck... fuck...fuck you brought the barrel to quill over as we say it in germany. They had simply enough of your behavior. So they ended the relationship with you, with just a small loss on their side.
As for the e point: i have / had a very small disagreement with Brother None, which lead to the point that i have left the inXile forum forever on a voluntary basis. But the difference between us both is that i wish him well, and hope that he will continue to be successful at his hopefully very long dream job at inXile.

Btw.: I would never allowed myself to speak with Brother None the way that you did to Alex.

 

[crawlkill]

Hmm crawlkill... i have read the entire thing that you have posted. And while a, b are true the c is disputable. In business life you never say something about a case or that you will sue someone (not even as a joke), because this is quite serious. Is seems that you had a history of complaining on their support, and with the fuck... fuck...fuck you brought the barrel to quill over as we say it in germany. They had simply enough of your behavior. So they ended the relationship with you, with just a small loss on their side.
As for the e point: i have / had a very small disagreement with Brother None, which lead to the point that i have left the inXile forum forever on a voluntary basis. But the difference between us both is that i wish him well, and hope that he will continue to be successful at his hopefully very long dream job at inXile.

Btw.: I would never allowed myself to speak with Brother None the way that you did to Alex.

They accused me of barratry. That is a legal threat. You understand?

If Brother None emailed you out of nowhere claiming you had made a legal threat against him--which is itself a legal threat against you, or in the actual case, me--I suspect you would be upset.

I was fucking upset.

This was not a "personal disagreement." This was not a difference of philosophy. This was not a misunderstanding. This was not a conversation that went wrong. This was them threatening one of their most loyal customers for absolutely no reason. TWICE. Even after telling them "what the fuck are you talking about?" they STILL said that I -hadn't been explicit enough,- when I had been -as explicit as a human can be.- My -being displeased with their customer support,- which was abysmal, was being treated as -a threat of a lawsuit.-

I regret losing my temper at being threatened over nothing. I absolutely do not think it was an unreasonable thing to do, though.

It also has nothing to do with people who think a box is as important as what's inside it are just wrong.

 

[tuluse]

Hey guys what do you think about Wastel...

oh


ohh

 

[crawlkill]

Hey guys what do you think about Wastel...

oh


ohh

I hear it's gonna be a shitty download, fuck that

 

[mindx2]

crawlkill whether we disagree on the merits (or lack thereof) of physical editions, I'm glad you're here with a desire for good games again unlike the drivel we have been shoveled for so many years. So, my to you for contributing to our prestigious forum/ magazine. Now about that Wasteland 2 game....