Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Game News Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Now Live!

Discussion in 'RPG News & Content' started by Crooked Bee, Mar 13, 2012.

  1. Make America Great Again Infinitron Trade Master Patron

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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
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    You revealed your bluff too soon, commie!
     
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  2. Morkar illiterate

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    Only 20$ will be the final pricetag? Interesting, I would have expected more like 30$/35$. If they can sell it that cheap even better :salute:
     
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  3. Make America Great Again Infinitron Trade Master Patron

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  4. Temaperacl Augur

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    Indeed you do. I would point out that in order to troll successfully, you need to target something that causes a reaction. What you put up may target a few people, but yesterday there were relatively few people who had any problem with the "trying to get more money" aspect of the changes and most of those were trolls anyhow.

    What you would need to do it identify the causes of the "rage" and then target that. For example, the primary issue people were complaining about yesterday was the portraits and the percieved change of value for the $15 tier. So change the text you are quoting slightly to indicate that there is some "preorder exclusive" content available. Or change the price to drop it down to $15 or less to play off of the reaction of the $15-tier kickstarters.

    Assuming you don't want to mess with the actual facts to get a reaction, then you have to adjust your presentation to the target audience. In this case, you might try to target the $30 tier backers, but the fact that there was a $15 tier would make it hard to get too much of a reaction. Alternatively, you could misrepresent what the people were complaining about or target specific people by name.

    Additionally, it should be less obvious - the bolding and text make it clear that it is a trolling attempt. While this can sometimes work, it is much more effective to put forward your viewpoint as if you actually believe it. That way people are more likely to take the bait. If you present it as "People are going to react over this", then it is more likely to just be ignored. If you present it as "I react to this", then you will get both people trying to refute you and people supporting you. After this is done, if you've whipped people up enough, you can withdraw from the argument and let it run it's course.

    In short: Entertaining as far as posts go, but not much of a troll, so I'm assuming it wasn't actually intended as a (serious) troll attempt? If it was, then you definately should spend some more time observing some of the posters who do it pretty well. I don't know who the good current trolls on the Codex are, but I would suggest looking at TwinkieGorilla's Posts - while I'm sure many of them are not intended as troll attempts, TwinkieGorilla does a good job at the sort of posts that would work well as (at least one type of) troll posts.


    I don't have anything to back it up, but I assume that $20 is a "pre-order" price and the "release" price will be higher.
     
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  5. golgepapaz Savant Patron

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    Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
    Although I wasn't able to pledge to W2 kickstarter because I've rage quitted my last job,I'd gladly shell out $250 for a spiritual successor to the PS:T (That's like $500 in buying power in most European countries,not counting Romania, Bulgaria etc.). Knowing that it would necessitate me to eat pommes frites inna bun for a few weeks, I'd still do it.
     
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  6. TwinkieGorilla does a good job. Patron

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    Do not attempt to unravel the brilliant enigma of my internet habits. TwinkieGorilla does a good job.
     
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  7. commie The Last Marxist Patron

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    I will endeavor to put into practice thy advice, my master...but yeah, it was intended more to tweak the noses of those that were raging against such things only the other day while at the same time showing that I actually approve of a continuous(small) stream of revenue for contingencies and to generally expand the future base of this genre which I actually think is the main reason for this: the more people that hop on board, the more likely they'll spread the word to others etc. and thus Fargo won't need to rely on a traditional marketing campaign as much(said so himself in the Reddit interview).


    What, you thought I was making it up? I'm a Communist, we only deal in truths, even when trying to troll. :smug:


    Maybe the price is just until the game is completed? It does say that it's for continuing development funding. I wouldn't really want to see Wasteland 2 being flogged off like some Indie shit, though on the other hand, the more people that grab it cause it's 'just 20 bucks' means that there's always a chance of finding new converts to the glory of TB RPG's. Also the lack of marketing would necessitate making the game more attractive as a more 'blind' purchase if it's cheap.
     
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  8. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

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    So, anyone thinks it would be a good idea for them to give people the option to up their pledge once they have a beta? I'd be willing to give more if I like what I see.
    Probably won't work on Kickstarter, so maybe have some way that people who used Kickstarter can up the pledge through Paypal? Maybe it's too complicated... and maybe they'd even start production on the physical items by then...
     
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  9. commie The Last Marxist Patron

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    Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
    I think that's a good idea, though by then it would mostly be going to fund a future project as much of the work would be already completed and I guess the deadline would be approaching. Maybe as a way to get something more? I for example have pledged $15 but I would like a CE box eventually. Maybe they will create a way to pay the difference and get the CE box? I'd go for that. You'd just need the receipt details from your initial pledge and give the difference.
     
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  10. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

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    Well, who knows. It could go over budget.

    Or it could fund the inevitable patches for game-breaking bugs. :smug:
     
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  11. commie The Last Marxist Patron

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    Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
    :lol: Your well of pessimism is endlessly deep.
     
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  12. TwinkieGorilla does a good job. Patron

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    I doubt there will be anything game-breaking but there will inevitably be bugs. Great thing though...is that we already have a rapport with the developers and I doubt we'll have to sit around wondering what the fuck is going on like people do at the AAA title games' forums.
     
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  13. sgc_meltdown Arcane

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    this is probably the clearest indicator that games don't need to cost that much, after publisher leeching and bullshit marketing + limousines for journalists are taken out of the equation

    they shouldn't move it lower than that for a while though, to keep perception of the product above budget indie game levels

    when will my console brothers see kickstarters for their platforms???
     
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  14. Make America Great Again Johannes Arcane

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    Actually the real thing to be butthurt about is that you cannot freely pick what OS you play the game on. Nobody wants to pay extra for that, it's just a nasty inconvenience.


    If I'm allowed to install my Linux version on whatever computers with the OS I have, there's no point in not allowing me to install it on the Windows partition too. If I was gonna install it on my neighbors Mac, so what, I could pirate it for her too if I'd be inclined to do that.
     
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  15. Make America Great Again Johannes Arcane

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    this beta is so buggy, oh god please take my money to fix your broken shit
     
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  16. Temaperacl Augur

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    I'm sure you are allowed to install it (although you may have to do it manually) on your second OS partition. The main issue you will have is if it will run or not.

    [Edit: Addition] They are after all, most likely different binaries. Out of curiousity, where does the expectation that you can get it for any OS come from? I'm asking this in seriousness, since my assumption was the exact opposite - that i would get a single set of binaries available for a purchase (which, obviously, would not run on all OSes). I'm wondering when this assumption changed since I see many people having the "buy once, run anywhere" assumption.
     
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  17. Burning Bridges Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

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    It makes sense. 15$ for kickstarter, 20$ to preorder, and I guess ~30 after release.

    It always depends on the budget and the number of units sold. You could sell one game comfortably for 1$, another could cost 250$ and still not be enough.
    It's this fixation on a price of 50$, later 75$ or whatever they charge now, that I never got.
     
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  18. Burning Bridges Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

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    I guess they will do that, if it is somehow possible.
    I first wanted to suggest you could buy another copy, but I know this is not the same.
     
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  19. Burning Bridges Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

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    I think what matters now is that they have now a solid budget of ca. 2.5 million, and that this should be absolutely enough to produce a first rate "indie" game, in the planned timeframe.

    More money will come from preorders and sales, perhaps even millions more. In any case, if they don't go over budget, they need not worry that people will only torrent it like indie games.

    They can now get down to producing the kick-ass game they want for 18 months and probably a lot more ..

    :troll:
     
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  20. Burning Bridges Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

    Burning Bridges
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    Some years ago my idea was that people should give a larger sum, like a couple hundred dollars, to fund really good niche games.

    Think of JA3 with features way beyond the scope of 1.13, and support for years, for 250$. If there were only 1000 initial backers, it could already work.

    I actually suggested this several times in the subsim community, before SH3 (at the time there was bitching on codexian level because there had been no good U-boat sim for almost 10 years)

    Now we get WL2 etc for much less. But it took almost a decade for this to happen.
     
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  21. Burning Bridges Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

    Burning Bridges
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    There is also the model of Rise of Flight.

    They only sell planes, for constant development. In a community that was just as desperate for a new WW1 flight sim after RB2, this seems to work.

    I really like this model. Because instead of hundreds of games with a fixed binary, stupid bugs which would only need a few lines of code to be changed, and only mods to squeeze out the rest, I want only a few good games, which are improved for years after they are released.

    This must also be much more satifsfying for the programmers.
     
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  22. asper Cipher

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    "Think of JA3 with features way beyond the scope of 1.13, and support for years"

    This is way, way, way more than Fargo is doing with W2. It's a project of awesome complexity that would take 6-7 years to create, maybe a decade.

    That said, I'd pay 250$ for what you describe in a heartbeat. But how many people like me are there? 60k people paid for Wasteland 2, that is really not very much, you have to include the Bioware and Bethesda fans that hopped on the bandwagon there.
     
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  23. Burning Bridges Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

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    Yes, this is the question that always comes up.

    But you are throwing around figures wildly. I don't see why this could not be done in 2-3 years, for a few hundred thousand dollars, by dedicated people with the right skills.
    It's not like 1.13 is as complex as Windows.

    In the end he problem is probably not to find the 1000 backers I mentioned, but to find a team that can pull it off.
    I would be mightily pissed if I gave them that much money and then they don't.
     
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  24. asper Cipher

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    I need Vault Dweller to chime in here and post his list of development times of well-known RPGs, that he always uses to justify the time he's working on AoD. It goes something like - ToEE 5 years, BG, 4 years, Bloodlines, 5 yeas, etc. etc. A proper Jagged Alliance is a much more complex game than any of those, not to mention with the functionality of 1.13. I mean, how long did it take those modders to reach 1.13?

    I really find the time frame Fargo says W2 will be completed in a bit ridiculous. 18 months for a tactical turn based party RPG with extended story and C&C...? They still need to pick an engine! How much work could Jason Anderson have done on his own already?
     
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  25. Burning Bridges Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

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    I think this is where you are wrong, and I think you do not understand how projects like 1.13 work. I take a game developed by a few guys over such a chaos any day. All the important work on 1.13 was done in the beginning, by now it went full derp.

    Confutse says: If three men can dig a hole in 2 hours, it doesn't mean 10,000 men do it in 2 seconds.

    I said 2-3 years, quite close to these figures if you leave out fancy 3d engines and publisher/development chaos.

    I also don't see how Fargo is going to make it in 18 months, but theoretically it can be done.
     
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