Incline VtM Bloodlines unofficial patch by Wesp5 v9.2 now available

[PhantasmaNL]

I mean the the monster filled sewer levels. Some of the tricks played on the player seem somewhat unfair when judged by todays standards (the barrage of "acrobats", the "maiden" super monsters (the first encounter has one escape route, which is basically a leap of faith), the acute timing necessary for the swimming against the current section, the collapsing bridge section, etc usw). Its the part of one of my favorite games i almost hate.

Btw, first pt as a malk, that must have been confusing...

 

[Andkat]

The sewer levels are just plain bad. Four levels of filler combat vs. aggravated damage (so healing takes forever). The atmosphere was nice but that whole section was two levels too long. If they had kept it to level 1 and level 3 it'd have been fine- the first Vozhd-like creature is a decent enough miniboss finale for the adventure and the leap to the exit seems like a logical way to finish things. Having a subsequent labyrinth filled with multiples of said miniboss was really just silly (although you could cheese it easily with a .38 revolver due to the monstrosities getting regularly stuck on corners). It brought back flashbacks to the absurdities of VtM: Redemption (murdering your way through an entire crypt full of Cappadocian vampires just to have a chat with their elder....). The best way through the latter half of the Sewers is really just to run through it without engaging most of the enemies.

You are a pretty lucky guy, however. Back when I did my Tremere pure Thamauturgy/Dominate playthrough, Thaumaturgy was bugged against the sewer critters- Blood Boil's AoE damage didn't apply to the headrunners, blood strike didn't return blood, etc. I was forced, like some wretched Brujah peasant, to take out a katana (back in the wesp patch when Chastity in Hollywood still dropped one) and hack them all to bits instead. Glad to see that wesp finally fixed those issues.

That said, melee is actually without dispute the easiest way (I mean ranged is fine, but not having to worry about ammo conservation or depend on useless garbage like the .38 early on is nice) to play provided you are a Toreador or Brujah. As in the actual PnP, Celerity is hilariously overpowered and investing in it to the exclusion of all else allows you to trivialize basically any and all combat.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Melee starts stronger but guns overtake it in Holywood when you can buy Magnum, IIRC you can buy that semi-automatic shotgun from Mercurio about that time as well. Really need to replay it one of these days, that fucking atmosphere.

Does anybody remember their first playthrough and how they tackled the warrens and how long it took to meet Gary? My recollection is blurred to say the least (as also proven by my inability to navigate it on memory alone) but it must have taken ages and countless reloads. Im getting too old for this shit.

A decade ago but as far as I remember it wasn't that tough to clean them out as I was a Brujah and had that portable blood reservoir that fills up when you kill enemies but finding the right way was another matter (everything looked the same and my sense of direction was never that good), don't remember it as being that traumatic though.

 

[PhantasmaNL]

The spot on atmosphere is one of the reasons for my replays. Also i like to try out different builds, maybe even gimped ones, just for lulz.
( to do: a Nos and Malk run).
Also the VA must be one of the best ever. It is directed extremely tight and to the point and mostly interesting, whereas in modern games i often think: shut up already ffs.

 

[Zombra]

It's not like having a leet combat build matters in this game. As long as you build up something, it's fine.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

The spot on atmosphere is one of the reasons for my replays. Also i like to try out different builds, maybe even gimped ones, just for lulz.
( to do: a Nos and Malk run).
Also the VA must be one of the best ever. It is directed extremely tight and to the point and mostly interesting, whereas in modern games i often think: shut up already ffs.

Man, you have to do a Malkavian playthrough, they have great custom content (in the first half of the game atleast) and look hilarious in different armor/clothing. Nosferatu I didn't find that different than other playthroughs to be honest despite what one might think from description (though it had some funny unique dialogue as well, on the account of you being an ugly SOB).

 

[Andkat]

Personally I always hated being ranged late in VtM. Maybe it's just because I'm some autistic freak and it was my first time through, but whenever I fired the auto shotgun I could feel the money bleeding out of my pocket (a Vampire who can't buy all of the elder vitae and blood packs in the game right before the end can count himself impoverished).

That said, the game isn't particularly difficult in principal, but I do know many people who tried going with overwhelmingly noncombat builds only to get screwed on hitting Hollywood and the Hallowbrook. It's not really obvious from the outset that the game will devolve into a combat slog near the end (although I have heard that with sufficient patience you can stealth-kill your way through the whole of the Hallowbrook).

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Personally I always hated being ranged late in VtM. Maybe it's just because I'm some autistic freak and it was my first time through, but whenever I fired the auto shotgun I could feel the money bleeding out of my pocket (a Vampire who can't buy all of the elder vitae and blood packs in the game right before the end can count himself impoverished).

Magnum doesn't really guzzle up ammo and packs quite a punch and IIRC Steyr Aug ammo is pretty cheap and it's a weapon that mows down enemies easily, Automatic shotgun I mostly used for those fat bullet spongy enemies. Besides, what else are you gonna spend all that money on anyway?

That said, the game isn't particularly difficult in principal, but I do know many people who tried going with overwhelmingly noncombat builds only to get screwed on hitting Hollywood and the Hallowbrook. It's not really obvious from the outset that the game will devolve into a combat slog near the end (although I have heard that with sufficient patience you can stealth-kill your way through the whole of the Hallowbrook).

Well, the game could have been way less combat heavy overall (especially with combat not being so great) and offered more alternative paths/solutions but it is what it is I guess, the last part of the game was clearly rushed.

In my experience you need both Max Obfuscation and stealth to sneak-kill some monsters/vampires and even then I think those that use Auspex spot you anyway.

 

[Anthedon]

I replayed it a while ago as a Tremere (it's hard not to go Malkavian), blood missile made the sewer system pretty trivial. I don't remember it being that strong way back when, Wesp must have played with the numbers in the meantime.

I got the impression ranged is way stronger now, the auto shotgun, the Magnum and especially the Steyr Aug burn through the combat heavy parts of the late game really quickly. Melee combat without Disciplines that support it is a slog in comparison.

 

[Dreaad]

You know what always really bothered me..... Viconia De Vir, Jeanette/Therese, Sharwyn from NWN and the Handmaiden from KotOR 2 all share one voice actor...... and they are were all characters I er... greatly enjoyed. It was very disconcerting finding out years later that they all shared one voice actress, it was like the gears of the cosmos clicked and I realized why I liked certain NPC's even when outwardly they were all completely different.

 

[Azrael the cat]

The sewer levels are just plain bad. Four levels of filler combat vs. aggravated damage (so healing takes forever). The atmosphere was nice but that whole section was two levels too long. If they had kept it to level 1 and level 3 it'd have been fine- the first Vozhd-like creature is a decent enough miniboss finale for the adventure and the leap to the exit seems like a logical way to finish things. Having a subsequent labyrinth filled with multiples of said miniboss was really just silly (although you could cheese it easily with a .38 revolver due to the monstrosities getting regularly stuck on corners). It brought back flashbacks to the absurdities of VtM: Redemption (murdering your way through an entire crypt full of Cappadocian vampires just to have a chat with their elder....). The best way through the latter half of the Sewers is really just to run through it without engaging most of the enemies.

You are a pretty lucky guy, however. Back when I did my Tremere pure Thamauturgy/Dominate playthrough, Thaumaturgy was bugged against the sewer critters- Blood Boil's AoE damage didn't apply to the headrunners, blood strike didn't return blood, etc. I was forced, like some wretched Brujah peasant, to take out a katana (back in the wesp patch when Chastity in Hollywood still dropped one) and hack them all to bits instead. Glad to see that wesp finally fixed those issues.

That said, melee is actually without dispute the easiest way (I mean ranged is fine, but not having to worry about ammo conservation or depend on useless garbage like the .38 early on is nice) to play provided you are a Toreador or Brujah. As in the actual PnP, Celerity is hilariously overpowered and investing in it to the exclusion of all else allows you to trivialize basically any and all combat.

Depends on build a bit as well. Melee is undoubtedly stronger once automatic weapons come into play (even with just the autoshotty range is stronger if you don't have to worry about ammo), but on replays I even found zero use of Melee tolerable with the 38 by building auspex ahead of celerity with my toreador (allows extremely fast firearms progression in Santa Monica, even with prioritising the noncombat skills to get all the bonuses - just start building auspex when it becomes cheaper than the equivalent amount of firearms, the massive duration and cheap cost lets you keep it on throughout combat; toreador social skills also keep you rich enough that ammo and blood packs for constant auspex is never a problem).

 

[Carrion]

Does anybody remember their first playthrough and how they tackled the warrens and how long it took to meet Gary?

An hour, maybe two for the whole sewer section, maybe around fifteen minutes for the last level. I recently replayed the game as Malkavian with Wesp's patch and it was about the same, and I hardly remembered any specifics of the levels. That part of the game does suck, but as far as repetitive, overly long dungeons with annoying enemies go, I don't think it's that bad considering that all of the levels are quite small and you therefore feel like you're at least making some kind of progress all the time. The final level is the only one that's a bit of a maze, but even that is pretty compact.

Magnum doesn't really guzzle up ammo and packs quite a punch and IIRC Steyr Aug ammo is pretty cheap and it's a weapon that mows down enemies easily, Automatic shotgun I mostly used for those fat bullet spongy enemies. Besides, what else are you gonna spend all that money on anyway?

The annoying thing is that even if you have all the Steyr Aug ammo you can carry, it won't last long in some of the late-game areas that contain about six thousand enemies that either use melee weapons or shotguns, and ammunition for the actually good weapons is nowhere to be found. It's very much possible to enter the Hallowbrook Hotel armed to the teeth, with all the best weapons and bullets money can buy, and run out of ammo for all firearms right before the end boss.

Then again, it's not like you have to heavily invest into melee in order to be able to take out most of those enemies with a sword or something, boss included.

 

[Aenra]

Nosferatu I didn't find that different than other playthroughs to be honest

This is my own MAJOR, rage inducing gripe.. i don't mind the combat, the ending, the pacing.. only thing i do mind is that all these years later, modders gonna shit mod, but no one's bothered to beef up the most interesting (in terms of potential) way to play. No one. But tweak the numberz for shotgunz? Re-texture Jeanette? Modz!.....



CyberP why don't YOU do it? I bet you they will even remove some of your tags.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

An hour, maybe two for the whole sewer section, maybe around fifteen minutes for the last level. I recently replayed the game as Malkavian with Wesp's patch and it was about the same, and I hardly remembered any specifics of the levels. That part of the game does suck, but as far as repetitive, overly long dungeons with annoying enemies go, I don't think it's that bad considering that all of the levels are quite small and you therefore feel like you're at least making some kind of progress all the time. The final level is the only one that's a bit of a maze, but even that is pretty compact.

Same goes for the orc caves in NWN2, the mines in Arcanum, the deep roads in DA, etc. When people dislike a dungeon they recall it being much longer than it is.

 

[CyberP]

CyberP why don't YOU do it? I bet you they will even remove some of your tags.

I'm going to need greater incentive than the removal of tags bestowed by a bully on a website made by retards, for retards.

I'd like to mod this game, it has a lot of potential, but there's too many reasons why I won't bother.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

The annoying thing is that even if you have all the Steyr Aug ammo you can carry, it won't last long in some of the late-game areas that contain about six thousand enemies that either use melee weapons or shotguns, and ammunition for the actually good weapons is nowhere to be found. It's very much possible to enter the Hallowbrook Hotel armed to the teeth, with all the best weapons and bullets money can buy, and run out of ammo for all firearms right before the end boss.

I guess it's possible but it didn't really pan out that way in practice for me. Hallowbrook I cleaned out using auto-shotgun for war form gangrels and Steyr Aug for everything else (including the boss) basically, I always have maxed out guns at that point of the game though (If I'm doing a gun playthrough). Of the two end game areas, one had ammo boxes (you had to have somewhat high lockpick though IIRC) and the other one had enemies equipped with Steyr Augs (many of them anyway) so ammo wasn't a big problem.

This is without counting Auspex clans like Toreador and Tremere, enemies drop like flies from guns if you're playing those.

Then again, it's not like you have to heavily invest into melee in order to be able to take out most of those enemies with a sword or something, boss included.

Yeah, plus there's a flamethrower which is very effective even if you didn't specialize in guns/ranged. You also have some instakill (against non-bosses obviously) disciplines when maxed out.


Edit: Fuck it, reinstalling.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I mean the the monster filled sewer levels. Some of the tricks played on the player seem somewhat unfair when judged by todays standards (the barrage of "acrobats", the "maiden" super monsters (the first encounter has one escape route, which is basically a leap of faith), the acute timing necessary for the swimming against the current section, the collapsing bridge section, etc usw). Its the part of one of my favorite games i almost hate.

Btw, first pt as a malk, that must have been confusing...

The sewers largely depend on your clan. Easiest is nosferatu. You have obfuscate, so can sneak by. Most of the time you can sneak by without obfuscate. For the few encounters you have to fight - animalism 5 kills everything, even the Belials and spider creations. Just make sure you have animalism 5 before starting the sewers. Each rat gives 3 blood points, so blood is not a concern either. Nos have it easiest in every combat map actually, animalism doesn't break obfuscate so you can just kill everything and even refill your blood with animalsm 4 while staying invisible (works well in hallowbrook for instance).
Gangrel have animalism too, but a rat only gives 1 blood point so you can't kill everything willy-nilly with animalism like a nos can. Sneak by and only fight what you have to. malk has dementation and dementation 5 kills belials most of the time but the spider creations survive often but not always. Same with domination when you play Ventrue or Tremere. In case of Ventrue blood is a concern because you cannot feed on rats. Leaves Brujah and Toreador, with which you will probably have the most problems in the sewers, not much choice but to sneak by if you can and activate celerity and fight when you have to.

 

[Goral]

I played as Malk about 2 weeks ago and just skipped most sewer fights by running, didn't even have to use obfuscate. It was more problematic in Hallowbrook Hotel where running away was not an option.

 

[bloodlover]

Depends on build a bit as well. Melee is undoubtedly stronger once automatic weapons come into play (even with just the autoshotty range is stronger if you don't have to worry about ammo), but on replays I even found zero use of Melee tolerable with the 38 by building auspex ahead of celerity with my toreador (allows extremely fast firearms progression in Santa Monica, even with prioritising the noncombat skills to get all the bonuses - just start building auspex when it becomes cheaper than the equivalent amount of firearms, the massive duration and cheap cost lets you keep it on throughout combat; toreador social skills also keep you rich enough that ammo and blood packs for constant auspex is never a problem).

Is that katana that you get at some point any good, assuming you have max melee?

And since guns are better overall, isn't there a mod that adds weapons so you have some kind of balance regardless of the combat weapon?

 

[Anthedon]

Depends on build a bit as well. Melee is undoubtedly stronger once automatic weapons come into play (even with just the autoshotty range is stronger if you don't have to worry about ammo), but on replays I even found zero use of Melee tolerable with the 38 by building auspex ahead of celerity with my toreador (allows extremely fast firearms progression in Santa Monica, even with prioritising the noncombat skills to get all the bonuses - just start building auspex when it becomes cheaper than the equivalent amount of firearms, the massive duration and cheap cost lets you keep it on throughout combat; toreador social skills also keep you rich enough that ammo and blood packs for constant auspex is never a problem).

Is that katana that you get at some point any good, assuming you have max melee?

And since guns are better overall, isn't there a mod that adds weapons so you have some kind of balance regardless of the combat weapon?

You can get one of the Katana lookalikes pretty much after finishing the prologue from the quest Knox gives you in the Asylum. Can't remember the name, but it's pretty powerful for a long time. An actual Katana shows up in Chinatown and a better version towards the very end of the game.

 

[Bleed the Man]

I decided to replay Bloodlines after finishing PoE, as it had been a long time since I last played it. Although I like the game a lot, this second playthrough has left me with a worse impression than last time. Still, the atmosphere is outstanding, and the writing deserves all kinds of praise. It's amazing how the game can so easily and naturally change the tone, from humorous self awareness to serious creepy shit, and the game is better for it. It's sad that once you start the Nosferatu Warrens the game becomes a bore, and looses it's Deus Ex-lite approach for something a lot less inspired and repetitive and more akin to corridor shooting galleries (also, chinatown has extremely few side quests, and very basic).

The endings are all very short and feel very rushed, but the independent/Lacroix/anarchs endings all are, for me, pretty damn satisfying (BOOM! Always crack me up)