Vault Dweller, when is Age of Decadence's "skill plateau moment"?

[Shadenuat]

Hybrids are more than doable but you need to know what you're doing. It's not too much to ask, is it? Players' screens:

Note 3 out of 4 with 8 Crafting.

8 Crafting/Alchemy is not really "hybrid", it's actually a more potent fighting character.

Because of rich lore rewards Lore/Crafting provides (I mean it's actually cool to play Indiana Jones since you will see what no other char will) it turns to "return" skill points invested into them, because where you use them is often a "side content". And it returns SP to you too - 5-10 pts per "new land ahoy!" + lots for exploring.

Creating a Fighter/Thief or something like that with 8 Lockpicking/Traps/Sneak without 10 INT would be more difficult & "trappy", since your fighting stats don't affect your social skills (like DEX not affecting Lockpicking).
Well unless you do ranged+alchemy cheese.

This is partly a problem that PopeAmole mentioned about how hybridizing may not return your investment and "stonewall" you.

 

[Darth Roxor]

did someone say lore and crafting

 

[Shadenuat]

fuck!

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Crafting and Alchemy are combat skills, lets not kid ourselves here.

 

[Tigranes]

Crafting & Alchemy are indeed combat skills & shouldn't count as hybrid.

I talk about the viability of hybrids because I've done them, and others have. In the late demo I made characters that would have, let's say, 3/3 combat with ~3 in at least 3/4 social skills (e.g. a 3/3 dagger/dodge with 3 streetwise, lockpick, steal, lore, alchemy, crafting) and then take that up to 5/5 combat with 5/6 in some social skills in Maadoran. And it definitely was trickier and you did need to know what you are doing.

It's patently obvious that hybrids are not really viable in your first playthrough (which is arguably a flaw), but it's also obvious that they are possible for players who've played the game for a while, in fact, it is unarguable because people have done them, way back in early beta as well as today.

I'm traveling this week but if I end up doing a hybrid in AOD later I'll post stats & how it went.

 

[Vault Dweller]

^ This.

 

[Mozg]

It would be nice if somehow stuff like low end sneak or streetwise or whatever checks could sometimes work like crit strike and let you remove a key enemy or two before harder fights (and if the check doesn't work, just start a normal fight instead of giving you instant game-over).

The "smart" way to play is to take any skill that you don't use constantly to get more skillpoints and dump it as hard as you can. The "checks" (including fights) just keep getting harder, and having 3 different tools that are not quite good enough to get more skillpoints is useless. If some "obsolete" check skills that aren't going to unlock any more skillpoints were functionally similar to having one more level in dodge or whatever (by reliably making harder combats easier) hybrids would be more natural.

 

[Tigranes]

Turns out the assassin I was toying around with is pretty hybrid, so just went and finished Teron with him in the hotel. This is just after arriving at Maadoran, but I didn't spend any SPs after starting the final Assassins mission, so that's all in the spare SPs - this is the character going into the Teron final mission. DEX is 1 lower because of an injury.

Character solved problems just like a hybrid would. Killed some (e.g. pickpockets fight, Miltiades fight 1, the Centurion at the end of Assassins questline), not-killed others (talked out of Miltiades 2, CS'd then talked out of Bandit Camp, sneaked through Outpost), had to give up on one 'quest' (the gem-laden lady's house).

Could probably have gone with 4 Streetwise and 4 Lore or something instead of 4 Crafting, but wanted that for the jellyfish. So you can see he's 50/50 hybrid in terms of attributes, and then roughly 60/40 in terms of SP distribution.

 

[Shadenuat]

Could probably have gone with 4 Streetwise and 4 Lore or something instead of 4 Crafting

Since you can get +20% THC dagger with Streetwise in Maadoran and use Dodge, you could have probably just ignored Crafting alltogether and pumped Alchemy higher. Maybe even get a ranged weapon.
One other option I am kinda curious about for dodge/high AP and asassin specifically is poisoned Spear.
Also Impersonate is better talker skill for assasin than Persuasion.
I also can't for hell remember Sneak checks for Boatmen later in game worthy of investment in skill, although my own Boatmen playthrough was a guy in plate armor with poisoned club who just bashed everyone's heads so I might be wrong on that one.
Critical Strike is your bread and butter though, together with Impersonate, Streetwise & poison which is a Colt Revolver of AoD's world.

 

[Tigranes]

Since you can get +20% THC dagger with Streetwise in Maadoran and use Dodge, you could have probably just ignored Crafting alltogether and pumped Alchemy higher. Maybe even get a ranged weapon.
One other option I am kinda curious about for dodge/high AP and asassin specifically is poisoned Spear.
Also Impersonate is better talker skill for assasin than Persuasion.
I also can't for hell remember Sneak checks for Boatmen later in game worthy of investment in skill, although my own Boatmen playthrough was a guy in plate armor with poisoned club who just bashed everyone's heads so I might be wrong on that one.
Critical Strike is your bread and butter though, together with Impersonate, Streetwise & poison which is a Colt Revolver of AoD's world.

That's true. And all that goes to show that it's easy to have various kinds of hybrids - if I didn't go assassin / dagger I wouldn't have pumped CS that much, either. The point is it's really easy to make sure that you stay reasonably competent in combat and still jack up several noncombat skills up high enough to pass checks throughout.

Sneak is 4 because that's what you need for the blacksmith's house and the outpost in Teron. Given the former gives +1 crafting, it basically pays for itself. Same with lockpick 4, where you get it up to 3 and then Feng's house pays for the top-up.

Spear is always attractive to me on paper but I always get really frustrated because it's a very passive playstyle. You're relying on the passive firing, and if it doesn't fire regularly enough you're fucked, and your damage is pitifully low. (Of course, with dagger you sit there doing 8% THC arterial strikes on heavy armoured blockers hoping for the crit to fire, but it still feels different.)

 

[Shadenuat]

Spear is not really passive, you kite around, apply poison ticks, bash enemies back with shield, they run into you again, get AOOd, bash/run/knockdown/aimed attacks. P. fun.
Without Poison damage is not as impressive as say chopping people with axe, but then I also run hybrid now with only 6 STR.

One surprisingly shitty aspect of Spear though is that it has no synergy with any combat skills. Can't compensate for low PER for example.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

That's true. And all that goes to show that it's easy to have various kinds of hybrids - if I didn't go assassin / dagger I wouldn't have pumped CS that much, either. The point is it's really easy to make sure that you stay reasonably competent in combat and still jack up several noncombat skills up high enough to pass checks throughout.

Sneak is 4 because that's what you need for the blacksmith's house and the outpost in Teron. Given the former gives +1 crafting, it basically pays for itself. Same with lockpick 4, where you get it up to 3 and then Feng's house pays for the top-up.

Spear is always attractive to me on paper but I always get really frustrated because it's a very passive playstyle. You're relying on the passive firing, and if it doesn't fire regularly enough you're fucked, and your damage is pitifully low. (Of course, with dagger you sit there doing 8% THC arterial strikes on heavy armoured blockers hoping for the crit to fire, but it still feels different.)

I think you need 3 Sneak for blacksmith house which gives you 1 crafting and 5 civil SP or just 10 civil 10 SPs if your crafting is too high. Either way, it's effectively just 5 points lost on sneak 3 (which costs 15 SPs) and you'd probably get it all returned if you infiltrate Antidas compound (if you also have some points in CS).

My problem with daggers is while they start being awesome after a rough early start is that their hit chance sometimes seems to be too low. Either I don't understand the systems well enough or my game is bugged but sometimes my Jarvia (a dagger with +THC) would have less chance to hit then a Shamshir (a sword with no THC bonus) on equal skill level (and attack rating) and I have no idea why (maybe hardiness and opponents armor plays a role). Since daggers rely so much on targeting it kinda makes things tougher then they should be.

 

[Tigranes]

My bad. Blacksmith house is 3 Sneak and then 4 Lockpick for the chest, though arguably the rewards from that chest isn't great. Anyway, yes, combined with Antidas infiltration, it is very worthwhile to have 3 Sneak. I could have left it at 3, and then used the extra 10 points on a combat skill and try and take the Outpost on with poison. So again, many different permutations, where it's not "have 4 Sneak or dead end" or "have 5 Dagger or dead end".

Not sure about the THC stuff, I'll see how it looks in my game. Daggers definitely can be tough to start with. The Centurion at the end of Teron is a bitch, and you're really relying on Fulvio, yourself and Neleos getting the odd crit with the dagger. Shows you how durable a strong block opponent can be.

 

[Darth Roxor]

The Centurion at the end of Teron is a bitch, and you're really relying on Fulvio, yourself and Neleos getting the odd crit with the dagger.

This is really false. You just net the dude to lower his block chance and then spam him with torso strikes and laugh in his face. He's not particularly easy for sure, but saying you're completely reliant on rng here just isn't true.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

The problem with daggers is that you need aimed attacks to really utilise the passive. While with Axe you just whack em with fast attack and its all good.

 

[Tigranes]

This is really false. You just net the dude to lower his block chance and then spam him with torso strikes and laugh in his face. He's not particularly easy for sure, but saying you're completely reliant on rng here just isn't true.

I don't mean that you need to hope for random luck, since the way CS / aimed works with AOD & especially dagger characters is pretty calculable. I did net the centurion, and after that torso isn't fundamentally different from arterial (I just prefer the latter for some reason). Anyway I don't think I disagree.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I did net the centurion, and after that torso isn't fundamentally different from arterial

It is much different. Torso strike can reduce a git's con to make him take more damage from poison. I also think it's much more likely to reduce his armour's DR. Both of those heavily profit Neleos and Fulvio. Plus, it has a higher hit chance even when the guy is in a net.

 

[Saark]

Your crit will most likely be shit this early into the game, so depending on the DR of the enemy arterial strikes might be more effective. For the very last fight I just lowered his stats constantly and let Neleos and Flavibro do the killing. Once you get some decent weapons with higher hardness and can crit more often, aimed:torso becomes better and better as the game goes on for the aforementioned DR-reduction. If you wanna deal damage yourself I suggest infiltrating the daratan palace for a steel knife you can get there or break into the blacksmiths place and craft yourself some iron stuff.

Depending on how heavily you invest in combat Teron is way too easy for an assassin I feel. The 3vs4 fight is the hardest one but if you have already managed to get at least 4 points into dodge you should be able to safely tank two of the opponents. Just feint to constantly switch positions and waste their AP because they have to move while the other 2 guys shoot them with their crossbows. If the alchemist guy survives you can think about using the poison vial he gives you for the final fight though you shouldn't really need it.

I always carried two daggers, one 3AP one 4AP for different situations. With 12 AP you can arterial or aimed:head strike 3 times for some nice stacking bleed even that early on while the 4 AP dagger greatly reduces the stats of any enemy you hit repeatedly. Later into the game I used the +THC dagger you get in Maadoran for a while until I crafted myself a +THC 4AP dagger to consistently hit aimed attacks and a pure crit+passive bonus 3 AP dagger to maximize the crit chance once I've worn their dodge/accuracy down.

 

[Tigranes]

It is much different. Torso strike can reduce a git's con to make him take more damage from poison. I also think it's much more likely to reduce his armour's DR. Both of those heavily profit Neleos and Fulvio. Plus, it has a higher hit chance even when the guy is in a net.

Huh. I thought Torso was mainly about bypassing DR on the specific attack. Good to know.

I think Teron Boatmen is tricky because unlike the Thief line, 'talkie' / hybrid assassins are also pressed into pretty similar combat situations, meaning it might end up a tad easy for a dedicated fighter. As it is my hybrid had no real problems.

 

[Saark]

I personally preferred the "lower their defenses, stab them in the eye" approach. The other viable option would probably be "reduce their armour to 0 DR, then hit them anywhere". Not sure if one is better than the other.