KickStarter Underworld Ascendant Pre-Prototype Thread

[AwesomeButton]

Good for you. At least you said the magic word; "betting"

Absolutely, I did. And I don't mind seeing it that way. I bet $20-$30 on this game being good and that's it. I haven't played any of the old underworlds but I've enjoyed System Shock, Thief TDP, and Thief TMA a great lot. So, for me it's one part nostalgia, and maybe two parts hoping they come up with something with equally inventive gameplay, which would stand out among competitors with how original it plays first and foremost. Since I'm not an ultima underworld veteran, I don't care at all about the setting/story.

Myself, and it could be because i am ignorant, definitely and feel free to correct me, but i see it differently. Ideas you see, do not cost. Ideas in fact are the primary reason this fucked up collection of mamboons has managed to progress as much as it has. They cost nothing, and can additionaly come to anyone. The high and the low, the proficient and the clueless. Ideas. Nothing tangible, just the ideas.

I agree, it's one thing to come up with an idea and a whole other thing to clock in the work to its becoming reality, or at least test if the idea can be realized at all. But on the other hand, ideas have an indirect cost - that's the time and effort and money you've put knowingly, or unknowlingly into the education and training which at some point lead to you coming up with that idea... But I guess that's not what you meant.

When you have been "thinking" about a spiritual sequel to a game for years, when past that amount of time, you have reached a moment in time where what you envision allows to feel comfortable enough to pitch it as a KS campaign? Myself? I'd be waiting to hear just those very fucking ideas you are meant to have had. In aaall this time. No ingame videos, no technical details, just a diagram or whatever other visual way you'd so please to employ where your ideas would be there for me to read, and judge. This and this and that, with x and y and z, here are those, such is the why i want to capitalise on a or b a tech and so on. Ideas.

So when i see you, months and months after having taken people's money, still fucking contemplating on whethers and ifs and fucking floating summoned mushrooms of lava-proof+3 ?... well, i would most definitely not find you as someone trustworthy, to say the least. But that is just me.

I think I understand what you're hinting at, and I agree, especially in light of other kickstarters, that this one looks like it may also turn out ugly. But, on the other hand, if their games have always been unconventional, I don't find it surprising their campaign is unconventional too. As I said, I've financed it mainly out of nostalgia about the company, not about the game series itself. I guess you played the ultimas back in the day and this contributes to your getting angry from the uncertainty about how/if they are progressing? Or it's just based on the suspicion they are going to crash and disappear with ~$900 000?

 

[Infinitron]

Your gonna have to be a bit less passive aggressive - I don't know what I am wrong about there.

All of it? inXile went to Kickstarter for Wasteland 2 with absolute zilch. They announced they were going to use Unity a couple months after it was funded. Obsidian I think were internally debating on whether to use Unity or their own Onyx engine during the Kickstarter or until shortly before it. Even with Torment, although they knew they were going to use Unity, it was quite a while before they committed to using PoE's codebase.

These were by no means Larian-style Kickstarters with full-featured prototypes, and not even Bard's Tale IV-style Kickstarters with pretty in-engine footage.

I don't know why people are obsessing about this game in particular. I chalk it down to a natural suspicion of first person action games by isometric RPG fans.

 

[Burning Bridges]

The Kickstarter was funded in March.

Ok, but the point remains that not even now are they at the point they should have been at the very beginning.

You sure do like reminding people that you weren't actually following Kickstarter back in 2012

I don't see how that matters when he says the truth. If you dig out the discussion from 2012, we have accurately predicted what would happen if people are given money upfront before they even know what they are doing. The Tortured Hearts guy was sunk at the codex for exactly that "gimme the money so I can look at the technology" attitude. Now we have late 2015 and with a few excpetions, hundreds of kickstarters have been massive letdowns - or even blatant scams - because backers were much too lenient and gave money to people who never knew what they are doing. It worked out exactly as could be expected.

P.S. Regarding Tortured Hearts, it was possibly only because he was an honest and open guy. Had he kept his mouth shut he would probably have gotten the money.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

...

I said you aren't familiar with or comfortable with long running (kickstarter) projects. The inference of impatience with this project specifically, I rely on you to connect those dots. I said project(s). Thinking I was making a statement about your professional experience, you pulled out your penis. "Keep talking out your ass though. I love when arm chair professionals explain shit to me." Hair trigger much?

 

[Vault Dweller]

All of it? inXile went to Kickstarter for Wasteland 2 with absolute zilch. They announced they were going to use Unity a couple months after it was funded. Obsidian I think were also internally debating on whether to use Unity or their own Onyx engine during the Kickstarter. Even with Torment, although they knew they were going to use Unity, it was quite a while before they committed to using PoE's codebase.

InXile and Obsidian are existing studios that were already in business of making games. Nobody doubted their ability to put a game together (only the timeframe and design). Underworld Ascendant is a "we're putting the band back together" setup, hence the doubts.

 

[Infinitron]

InXile and Obsidian are existing studios that were already in business of making games. Nobody doubted their ability to put a game together (only the timeframe and design). Underworld Ascendant is a "we're putting the band back together" setup, hence the doubts.

That is a valid reason to have doubts (as is inXile's catalog before they did the Kickstarter...), but I'm not sure that's what the doubters actually have in mind.

Funny thing is, during the time between the fall of Looking Glass and now, some of the key figures on Underworld Ascendant seem to have been involved in production/project management-type roles. And not sitting at home playing WoW, dreaming and losing touch like the Coles. Maybe they should have played that up more.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

InXile and Obsidian are existing studios that were already in business of making games. Nobody doubted their ability to put a game together (only the timeframe and design). Underworld Ascendant is a "we're putting the band back together" setup, hence the doubts.

Hell I have doubt too but I suspect a lot of people's belly aching relates directly to their lack of KS-fu or the failure of others to satisfy their expectations is spilling over.

 

[Immortal]

All of it? inXile went to Kickstarter for Wasteland 2 with absolute zilch.

I can only go by what I read on WL2 (I was talking about Torment in that example)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2/posts/228226

April 17, 2012 - Funded
May 16, 2012 - They Discuss Why they Chose Unity (Past-Tense)

From a lead programmer perspective, my goal is always to enable the designers to most directly implement their vision by providing tools that keep me out of their way. That requires analyzing the game design up front, and with budget and time in mind, deciding what technology I should license and what I should write. I want to license enough and develop enough that the designers have all the tools they need, but without wasting money on overkill solutions, whether licensed or developed.

- Sic -

Besides the items mentioned above, high on our list of requirements for an engine was ease of use by the artists and level designers for getting assets into the game and editing levels. We are a small team and must be able to work very efficiently. This became a first-pass filter when evaluating engines. Also very important was ease of development for the promised target platforms. Following a close third was amount of support from the vendor and general availability of expertise for crowd-sourcing, contracting or hiring. Putting it all together we came up with a list of engine requirements that looked like this:

1. Ease of use by artists and designers

2. Targets Windows, Mac and Linux

3. Support and expertise available from vendor and in community

4. Adaptability for player modding

5. 3D rendering, pathing, AI, physics, character animation tools

All of this is hashed out and ready to go a month post funding. They are in talks with Unity before they get funded.
They already know what their asset pipeline / requirements are and now are choosing between language syntax.

Even with Torment, although they knew they were going to use Unity, it was quite a while before they committed to using PoE's codebase.

Kinda Irrelevant? They know that engine can do Isometric Top Down - PoE is their Prototype.
I don't need to test Bootstrap or AngularJS first to know if it can do responsive web design.

Obsidian I think were internally debating on whether to use Unity or their own Onyx engine during the Kickstarter or until shortly before it.

You think? Or you know?
AFAIK their first image of that temple entrance was a scene mocked in Unity (remember the video where the water is being raised and lowered?)
They had that screenshot on the front of the campaign..

 

[Infinitron]

All of this is hashed out and ready to go a month post funding

Is that supposed to contradict what I said?

If you'd like to know what OtherSide were doing before the Kickstarter, I asked about it myself: https://www.othersideentertainment.com/forum/index.php?topic=252.msg4489

 

[Immortal]

Is that supposed to contradict what I said?

Your missing the point completely. Of those three examples there is no question Wasteland 2 was the weakest.

And how long was the game delayed until?

Underworld Ascendant is in much worse shape. They are still talking about concepts and prototypes.
Wasteland 2 was only a few months behind the ball and that game was late by what? 2 years?

It just further proves my point.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

it was clear from the start that they weren't great about marketing or perhaps underestimated the importance of giving more messaging than they did. In the twitch streams and in a few different forum posts Tim was giving some very good information on systems and their approach to simulation. Just enough info to know that he knows exactly what he is doing; not communicated nearly widely enough to stop the butthurt.

 

[Infinitron]

Yeah, I mean, I totally get it. We've seen it happen, we've seen famous developers of the past make fools of themselves and demonstrate how out of touch they are with modern development practices. The various adventure game Kickstarters are with rife with this.

But this just isn't that situation. When actually interacting with these guys I've never gotten the impression that they're anything other than seasoned professionals, and smart ones at that. They just don't have much of a strategy for generating hype.

Hopefully whatever is they're making will do the trick. You know, I wouldn't be surprised if they return to crowdfunding with it to get more money.

 

[Immortal]

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if they return to crowdfunding with it to get more money.

They are gonna need it. There's no way 800 000 carries them to a finished product at the pace their going.
Better teams couldn't make half of what they promised on twice the budget.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

They already had funding. The KS was a top-up. They also had a plan B if the KS didn't work.

 

[Infinitron]

Last we heard, they had "a minimum of two hundred thousand dollars as a reserve to cover contingencies": https://www.underworldascendant.com/the-game/dev-updates.php

That's not much. They all seem pretty confident about the funding situation, though. Maybe it's worth asking about again.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

We need a codex interview with these guys. Raise all the questions that need answering. Make it happen Infinitron

 

[Immortal]

They all seem pretty confident about the funding situation, though.

And yet... the paypal and donation passes, Season Promotions and Endorsement button are all prominently plastered everywhere..

Seriously look at this shit..
Would you announce money problems if your trying to milk and rake everyone you can for more cash? I wouldn't..

Every Update they post has some kind of Advertisement Dump or Donation Request..

 

[Infinitron]

Yes, their updates are a little pushy. My guess would be that they do have sources of money they'll eventually need to tap but they'd prefer not to be indebted to investors and whatnot.

Anyway: https://www.othersideentertainment.com/forum/index.php?topic=873.0

 

[Aenra]

I think everyone got me. Except Infinitron, which of course is hardly a surprise. I could spell it out to him and draw him pictures, he'd still tell me what it is he thinks i may be thinking.
Unless he did get me, in which case perhaps that "I don't know why people are obsessing" should be ammended

Doctor Sbaitso i am not attempting to put them under a light of complete disarray, utter cluelessness, etc. I am aware of what they have to show thus far. Or at the least, speak of. If you read my initial post once more you will understand that my worries stem from what i see not (as in right now), and saw not (around the time of the pitch itself). It is one thing to expect changes, ongoing development and oscillating backs and forths. Quite another to project an image of total fucking cluelessness over how extremely basic concepts will need to work out. Again to my understanding, and please correct me if i'm wrong (if i don't know something, am not afraid to admit it), you cannot seriously pretend there is a development of any a mechanic/game engine "segment" when you don't even know what you want! And showing me physics and traps, which are Unity assets, not even yours, hardly goes to prove you have something concrete down. Again mind you, concrete in thinking. Fuck the tangible. We do not appear to even have the ideas down yet. Hence my personal ..doubts.. if you will.

Again, not "hating", i LOVED UAs, and i sure hope this one comes out fine. It's been 22 years, and that's counting Arx. Am just being honest and saying that to the extent of my understanding, entirely empirical as it does happen to be, i am just not seeing it. Currently. Still hoping this will change.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

I'll tell you what really bugs me personally... the team seem terrible at spelling. I have chosen not to admit drawing conclusions from it.

 

[a Goat]

Well, kickstarters were used to get corporate backing, and we're not exactly talking about something that has tight, small target audience. I mean does the idea of "1st person action RPG" sounds like it doesn't have broad appeal?

They're terrible at marketing - that's for sure, Fargo would earn at least 1,5 million(if not 2-3 millions) for such game, he would find it much easier to make it seem like it's Skyrim but good and underworld, but they - they couldn't.

So the idea that some publisher, not AAA class-big, something like Paradox, Focus or Nordic(however, they hardly do business in America so who knows) may be interested in picking them up, or that there are some anonymous investors who have set them conditions(see Kingdom's Come) that they have to succeed on KS to prove that there's need for that game seems likely.

 

[Zep Zepo]

Must be time for a pledge update for our butt-hurt friends...where'd I leave off?

$860,356 3/6 KS ends
+0
.......
.......

$894,985 6/23 Answers Update #2
+0
$894,985 6/24
+0
$896,705 6/28
+1720
$896,705 6/29
+0
$896,705 7/2
+0
$896,705 7/6 Playing games update
+0
$896,705 7/10
+0
$896,705 7/12
+0
$898,348 7/21
+1673
$898,348 8/3
+0

Zep--

Let's see...Must be time for a pledge update for our butt-hurt friends...where'd I leave off? (see above)

2 months later...

$908,835 10/3
+ 10,487

/\ 2 months. 10.5 K...sad faces all around.

How many people they got working on this? I hope you enjoy your Ramen noodles, UA!

LULZ!

Zep--

 

[Nekot-The-Brave]

Just compare it to skyrim, but underground. I'm sure people will bite

 

[Nekot-The-Brave]

http://www.twitch.tv/pcgamer/v/19430953

Paul Neurath and Joe Fielder guest star with some gameplay footage.

 

[Sacibengala]

Anyone saw this? Gameplay via polygon.