MasterSmithFandango
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 7,269
On the border for picking this up... how complete of an experience is it at the moment?
-
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Underrail [PRE-RELEASE THREAD, GO TO NEW THREAD]
- Thread starter Styg
- Start date
Gameplay-wise it's a gem, and a cut one too. If you're a storyfag there might be not enough meat in it for your taste, the story is serviceable though.
I don't really know why it's still labeled as an alpha because there are nearly zero bugs and game balance is great already (some retards on steam don't seem to appreciate the difficulty level though ^^). Maybe in this case alpha means that the developer(s) still want to implement lots of features or content, that they can't let go.
It's much much too cheap for the huge amount of content anyway, so it's really a no-brainer imo.
I don't really know why it's still labeled as an alpha because there are nearly zero bugs and game balance is great already (some retards on steam don't seem to appreciate the difficulty level though ^^). Maybe in this case alpha means that the developer(s) still want to implement lots of features or content, that they can't let go.
It's much much too cheap for the huge amount of content anyway, so it's really a no-brainer imo.
I don't know how much Styg has in plan, but if this gets released this year, I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be one of the best releases of the year.
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2010
- Messages
- 1,178
Maybe because the game isn't complete yet?
Yeah, Underrail in its current state is quite challenging
Alternative Experience System
The new version is complete and the build is running as I type this. Tomorrow we'll be starting the internal testing so you can expect the new patch to go live sometime next week. In the meantime, I want to present you with an alternative experience system I implemented and the reasoning behind it.
Before we even begin I want to make it clear that, even though I consider the new system to be the "default" way to play the game, the old system is still available for those who prefer it. Upon starting a new game you will be able to choose which experience system you want to use and you can also choose between easy and normal difficulty. On easy difficulty player character will have twice the health and the healing consumables will heal for twice as much and have a lower cooldown.
With this change, I'm only trying to re-balance the experience economy and not anything else regarding the character progression. The experience economy concerns the way the player gain experience and how does that affect his character build and play-style.
Since the early development phase of the game I was set on the game utilizing this old-school linear level/skill progression system. I'm fond of this kind of system and I had a pretty good idea how I would handle various combat calculations within it. What I never liked about it, though, is how the games that implement it handle experience gains. The problem is similar to that presented in the previous dev log in regards to the trading economy. Most of experience you gain by completing quests and killing enemies. So in order to get as much XP as possible and progress through levels as fast as possible, the player is encouraged to resolve most situations by combat. With Underrail being a challenging game as it is, there exists a very real need for the player to maximize their power level at any stage of the game.
One of tweaks I did in the past of ease this up a bit was to increase the XP gain from quests and reduce the XP gain from kills. It did help a bit, but in a game which involves a lot of combat you'd really have to go to the extremes when shifting the XP gains (from kills to quests) before they actually change the nature of level progression. Otherwise, it will still be heavily based on XP from kills, you'll just slow the progression down. You could go to one extreme and say, let's only award XP for quest completion. This is one way to go about it, and certainly some games have utilized this or something similar. I personally I don't like, though. I find it a mostly boring and non-dynamic way to progress and it also encourages you to complete as many quests as possible, instead of just those you want. In my opinion, you should only have to do quests that progress the story (or alter the game world) in the way you want or have other in-game rewards you desire, and not because it's the only way to become more powerful. For me, playing RPGs is about making choices based on preferences. Anything that limits this is bad.
* * * * *
What I wanted to do is reward player with experience for exploring Underrail, fighting new types of creatures (as opposed to farming easy ones) and just generally discovering and experiences more of the game world. Without them having to make optimal combat builds or finish the quest branch that gives the most experience.
The way the new experience system works is you only get experience from collecting and studying "oddity" items. These items are scattered throughout Underrail, mostly at points of interest. Some of them are gained by killing critters and other specific types of enemies, but since each oddity item can be studied a limited number of times, you can only farm XP from a single creature type to a certain point. Also, there are generally more instances of an oddity item type placed than you need, so you don't have to have 100% exploration score to get them all. Though, some of them will be unique and only awarded for discovering special areas or defeating bosses.
The main purpose of this system is to allow players to level at a similar rate regardless of what their build and play-style is. Going through the world stealthily, guns blazing (or in some cases diplomatically) or anything in between should now earn you similar amount of experience. People who build their characters better to their respective play styles will still naturally have an easier time and be able to venture to more dangerous areas. They will still do better than those who are still getting the hang of the game - the purpose of this is not to make the game easier, just more inclusive for different play-styles.
For those who like to race ahead of the difficulty curve and like to visit higher level areas early to amass experience quickly, let me assure you that the purpose of this system is not to prevent that either. Higher level areas will hold oddity items that give more experience, so skipping ahead to those will still accelerate your leveling, though admittedly not as much as the previous system.
* * * * *
So, in any case, the new update is coming soon and you'll all be able to check out all these major changes and let me know how it's working out for you. Our focus in the months to come will remain on providing more content to the game and less so on new mechanics, but I am still dedicated to making this game as mechanically and economically sound as possible, as I feel this is just as important.
The new version is complete and the build is running as I type this. Tomorrow we'll be starting the internal testing so you can expect the new patch to go live sometime next week. In the meantime, I want to present you with an alternative experience system I implemented and the reasoning behind it.
Before we even begin I want to make it clear that, even though I consider the new system to be the "default" way to play the game, the old system is still available for those who prefer it. Upon starting a new game you will be able to choose which experience system you want to use and you can also choose between easy and normal difficulty. On easy difficulty player character will have twice the health and the healing consumables will heal for twice as much and have a lower cooldown.
With this change, I'm only trying to re-balance the experience economy and not anything else regarding the character progression. The experience economy concerns the way the player gain experience and how does that affect his character build and play-style.
Since the early development phase of the game I was set on the game utilizing this old-school linear level/skill progression system. I'm fond of this kind of system and I had a pretty good idea how I would handle various combat calculations within it. What I never liked about it, though, is how the games that implement it handle experience gains. The problem is similar to that presented in the previous dev log in regards to the trading economy. Most of experience you gain by completing quests and killing enemies. So in order to get as much XP as possible and progress through levels as fast as possible, the player is encouraged to resolve most situations by combat. With Underrail being a challenging game as it is, there exists a very real need for the player to maximize their power level at any stage of the game.
One of tweaks I did in the past of ease this up a bit was to increase the XP gain from quests and reduce the XP gain from kills. It did help a bit, but in a game which involves a lot of combat you'd really have to go to the extremes when shifting the XP gains (from kills to quests) before they actually change the nature of level progression. Otherwise, it will still be heavily based on XP from kills, you'll just slow the progression down. You could go to one extreme and say, let's only award XP for quest completion. This is one way to go about it, and certainly some games have utilized this or something similar. I personally I don't like, though. I find it a mostly boring and non-dynamic way to progress and it also encourages you to complete as many quests as possible, instead of just those you want. In my opinion, you should only have to do quests that progress the story (or alter the game world) in the way you want or have other in-game rewards you desire, and not because it's the only way to become more powerful. For me, playing RPGs is about making choices based on preferences. Anything that limits this is bad.
* * * * *
What I wanted to do is reward player with experience for exploring Underrail, fighting new types of creatures (as opposed to farming easy ones) and just generally discovering and experiences more of the game world. Without them having to make optimal combat builds or finish the quest branch that gives the most experience.
The way the new experience system works is you only get experience from collecting and studying "oddity" items. These items are scattered throughout Underrail, mostly at points of interest. Some of them are gained by killing critters and other specific types of enemies, but since each oddity item can be studied a limited number of times, you can only farm XP from a single creature type to a certain point. Also, there are generally more instances of an oddity item type placed than you need, so you don't have to have 100% exploration score to get them all. Though, some of them will be unique and only awarded for discovering special areas or defeating bosses.
The main purpose of this system is to allow players to level at a similar rate regardless of what their build and play-style is. Going through the world stealthily, guns blazing (or in some cases diplomatically) or anything in between should now earn you similar amount of experience. People who build their characters better to their respective play styles will still naturally have an easier time and be able to venture to more dangerous areas. They will still do better than those who are still getting the hang of the game - the purpose of this is not to make the game easier, just more inclusive for different play-styles.
For those who like to race ahead of the difficulty curve and like to visit higher level areas early to amass experience quickly, let me assure you that the purpose of this system is not to prevent that either. Higher level areas will hold oddity items that give more experience, so skipping ahead to those will still accelerate your leveling, though admittedly not as much as the previous system.
* * * * *
So, in any case, the new update is coming soon and you'll all be able to check out all these major changes and let me know how it's working out for you. Our focus in the months to come will remain on providing more content to the game and less so on new mechanics, but I am still dedicated to making this game as mechanically and economically sound as possible, as I feel this is just as important.
Kem0sabe
Arcane
I'm curious about this new system, odity placement and distribuition is paramount to a well balanced character progression system, the game is chalening enough as it is in terms of skill checks and combat encounters.
Excited to try it anyways. Does the update included any quest/area content? Styg
Excited to try it anyways. Does the update included any quest/area content? Styg
Actually, the oddity system is easier to predict in terms of XP progression than the classic one. That doesn't mean the placement is perfect, though, so I'll be looking for feedback regarding that as well.
And yes, the new update includes new quests and areas. More on that in the next dev log which will be posted with the update.
Dude, so fucking awesome.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2007
- Messages
- 5,480
P.S. there's no need for the word "up" in this sentence "You gain experience
Awesome idea bro, I so love seeing you experimenting with stuff like this. Just one doubt:
Why? What's the point of clicking 10 times on the book to gain 10 points?
That's not he meant, there are" types" of oddities and we only can study the same type for 10 times.
AHHHHHHHH..... now I get it. 
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2002
- Messages
- 17,068
I realize this isn't in Workshop anymore, but..
I like the orange theme, but have you considered adding more of the blue element?
or something like that.
The oddity system sounds interesting. I expect this game to eat my life once it's finally complete.
I like the orange theme, but have you considered adding more of the blue element?
or something like that.
The oddity system sounds interesting. I expect this game to eat my life once it's finally complete.
Surf Solar
cannot into womynz
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2011
- Messages
- 8,831
Despite me wanting to wait for the game to be finished, I tried it out. And damn did I have a blast! The character system is nice, mechanics are good and well thought out, I love the graphics and the sounds, the gameplay is very challenging, got my ass handed pretty hard and felt suspense, something I can't even remember I had last time in an RPG. Easily one of the best RPGs I played and it's not even complete yet. Major kudos and respect to you Styg 
Not really. I'm pretty set on the interface colors.
I know... most of my grammar mistakes come from rewording sentences and leaving stray words about. :/P.S. there's no need for the word "up" in this sentence "You gain experienceupby collecting..."
Version 0.1.10.0 released
Hey guys, the new version has been released. It's available now on Steam, soon to be available on Desura, GamersGate and Groupees. For a preview of what's new you can check out this and past four dev logs.
You will now be able to travel a bit through Lower Underrail, either on foot or by train, and explore the town of Rail Crossing and the surrounding areas and face new types of enemies. The main story of the game starts in earnest with this patch, but I'm not going to spoil anything regarding that in this log
.
I also did a lot of polishing of existing game mechanics and added some new ones, as well as did a fair amount of economical re-balancing. After these couple days of internal testing I feel quite content where we're at now in that regard and while there surely be some more tweaking done in the future, I don't expect to do any major work on the existing mechanics in the future. With the future patches we will mostly be focusing on adding more content at a faster rate, which will as always include more areas, quests, enemies, items, feats, etc.
Anyway, have fun guys and let us know what you thought of the changes and the new stuff. Cheers.
Hey guys, the new version has been released. It's available now on Steam, soon to be available on Desura, GamersGate and Groupees. For a preview of what's new you can check out this and past four dev logs.
You will now be able to travel a bit through Lower Underrail, either on foot or by train, and explore the town of Rail Crossing and the surrounding areas and face new types of enemies. The main story of the game starts in earnest with this patch, but I'm not going to spoil anything regarding that in this log
.I also did a lot of polishing of existing game mechanics and added some new ones, as well as did a fair amount of economical re-balancing. After these couple days of internal testing I feel quite content where we're at now in that regard and while there surely be some more tweaking done in the future, I don't expect to do any major work on the existing mechanics in the future. With the future patches we will mostly be focusing on adding more content at a faster rate, which will as always include more areas, quests, enemies, items, feats, etc.
Anyway, have fun guys and let us know what you thought of the changes and the new stuff. Cheers.
I've already bought your game but I'm waiting for it to be completed, playing a CRPG during alpha feels weird, when do you think it'll be done?
Kem0sabe
Arcane
Good of you to ruin my weekend by dropping this at the end of the week, you are a terrible human being Styg!
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