Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Pre-Release Thread [ALPHA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[hiver]

The logic of "one feature was done badly so lets remove a whole part of the new game". ffs...

 

[Sensuki]

ban from codex for rtwp tbh

 

[FeelTheRads]

Saying what does the combat matter is pretty much like wanting a part of the game to suck because OMG TEH HORROR people are arguing about the subject . If you're a monocled gentleman, you just don't care.

 

[Sensuki]

RtWP jump by 100 in 5 mins

 

[Livonya]

This voting thing is depressing, but honestly I was afraid that by this time RTwP would have double the votes of Turn Based. I just hope Turn Based doesn't lose by more than a small percentage. If it turns out that twice as many people vote for RTwP then that is a huge problem. If they are even marginally close then that is a huge victory for Turn Based.

Turn Based just doesn't have a fair chance. I doubt if most people have even played a Turn Based RPG. Turn Based is just such an underdog. If Wasteland 2 is a good game then this kind of vote would be more fair in the future. But right now Turn Based just doesn't have a good game to point at.

ToEE is the best you can point to and that game wasn't finished and incredibly buggy. The only other Turn Based RPGs are really low budget games that most people never played.

We just need one decent game to come out that is Turn Based and then the tide will change.

I hope Dead State or Wasteland 2 will be good games... if they aren't then they will just end up as more nails in the coffin.

Age of Decadence will certainly be a good game, but I can't see that game as appealing to the wider public so I don't think it will help the Turn Based cause.

 

[LivingOne]

Genghistwelve @Genghistwelve
@BrianFargo Unscientific:1.More teens prefer TB combat; 2.marijuana use by teens is on rise. Conclusion: those favoring TB vs RTwP are high.

Retweeted by Brian Fargo

This,right near the vote options,probably doesn't help.'tards might be reading it as an endorsement to rtwp

 

[FeelTheRads]

Who the fuck is this genghis guy?

 

[LivingOne]

A random guy dumbass following Fargo on twitter

 

[Zed]

Genghistwelve @Genghistwelve
@BrianFargo Unscientific:1.More teens prefer TB combat; 2.marijuana use by teens is on rise. Conclusion: those favoring TB vs RTwP are high.

Retweeted by Brian Fargo

This,right near the vote options,probably doesn't help.'tards might be reading it as an endorsement to rtwp

oh shit what can we do to turn this campaign in TB favor?
make Fargo wear a TB t-shirt next video interview?

 

[Athelas]

@BrianFargo Breaking: Baatezu and Tanar'ri thankful they're only fighting the Blood War instead of TB vs. RTwP. Blood War to end sooner.

That's actually funny.

 

[Gozma]

Eh, the thing with Torment is that the combat needs to be lightweight. It's not a squad tactics game. The combat has to matter and it shouldn't be actively unpleasant because it's always the proximate reason you are doing RPG stuff like trying to get that sword +1 (even avoiding combat is combat mattering) but it's adjunct. I want to hear stuff acknowledging that instead of OH WHATEVER WAY IT GOES THE COMBAT WILL BE TOTALLY GOOD AND NOT BAD AT ALL, GOOD IS PREFERABLE TO BAD IMO.

 

[pakoito]

I am taking Torment as an interactive novel so I want the combat to be over ASAP, hence I'm leaning towards RTwP.
There are other games to scratch the gamist itch, and Torment is not one of them.

-edit-

Torment was always meant to be a full game and not having any combat in it would have diminished it, as it will diminish this new Torment game - in case such a thing could happen - which it wont.
what fucking legacies can you make if by some divine intervention all difficult stuff is removed from you why the fuck am i even trying to explain anything to a bloody fucking moron...

This guy below gets it

Eh, the thing with Torment is that the combat needs to be lightweight. It's not a squad tactics game. The combat has to matter and it shouldn't be actively unpleasant because it's always the proximate reason you are doing RPG stuff like trying to get that sword +1 (even avoiding combat is combat mattering) but it's adjunct. I want to hear stuff acknowledging that instead of OH WHATEVER WAY IT GOES THE COMBAT WILL BE TOTALLY GOOD AND NOT BAD AT ALL, GOOD IS PREFERABLE TO BAD IMO.

Torment: Numenera is not minmaxing and loot tables. Combat should be part of the narrative and serve it, not being the core focus. Difficulty shouldn't be measured by "is my party minmaxed enough to kill boss?", but "is my approach good enough to resolve this encounter?". Avoiding an encounter, talking through it, using the scenery, using an item, misdirect the attention, charming your way...all of them work better in a real-time fashion rather than turn-based squad tactics. Heck, hack/slash should be punished if you ask me. You have PE, DOS and others for that.

 

[DeepOcean]

While I prefer TB, real time isn't a deal breaker but seeing people defending realtime with "arguments" like: Real life isn't turn based moron, that will ruin my IMMERSHUN and that they aren't going to play TB games ever because of that or that TB games are outdated is really depressing. In reality, outside a few people that truly believe that real time can be improved on a non-popamole way, most people voted real time because they are LARPERS that don't want gameplay stopping them from enjoying the story/ propaganda robots that hate TB games because kotaku said so, without even trying what they hate so much.

 

[Crooked Bee]

You haven't seen the ultimate anti-TB argument though:

[Turn-based is] a numbers game that can be gamed/broken far more easily usually. Crap like staying just enough spaces away so that something has no mathematical possiblity of getting to or hitting you. This can be akin to kiting in something with more realtime elements, excepts there no possibility of fucking up because you weren't quick enough on the draw or didn't notice in time.

 

[Dexter]

I voted RTwP, I don't think TB combat would be contributing to make a better game in this case.

Planescape: Torment was a game about storyfaggotry, setting, beautiful and crazy landscapes and some philosophical concepts primarily and not about deep combat systems and that's what I expect from the "spiritual sequel", there were very few fights which could mostly be skipped and they weren't really well implemented or all that important. PS:T could have almost been an isometric Adventure game and I'd be afraid that if they go TB they would possibly depart too much from what I am hoping this will turn out to be and put the focus on the wrong things.

If this was a Wasteland/Fallout/Jagged Alliance/X-Com/King’s Bounty/Heroes of Might & Magic sequel or spiritual successor I would vote differently.

 

[Infinitron]

The ToN team has already committed to creating deeper combat than PS:T whether it's TB or RTwP, so it's departed already.

Spoiler

Also ban Dexter, etc.

 

[CMcC]

It would be interesting to hear your guys opinion on Numenera (the PnP game). You know, if you guys are ever bored and wanna blog or something...

It's a fast and easy story-based system, and it fosters a spirit of cooperation, not competition, between the players and the GM. Since the players do the rolling and the GM just issues skill levels and challenges, it becomes much less about the GM being the All-Knowing Adjudicator and much more about just having a fun adventure around the table.

For the specific rules, at least from my end, it's a fast and easy story-based system. By that, I mean that it's not a game for scrutinizing optimal builds and eking out the last measure of strength you can from your character.

 

[Koschey]

Avoiding an encounter, talking through it, using the scenery, using an item, misdirect the attention, charming your way...all of them work better in a real-time fashion rather than turn-based squad tactics. Heck, hack/slash should be punished if you ask me. You have PE, DOS and others for that.

So...TB combat equals hack 'n slash? Not sure if trolling or really an idiot.

 

[Adam Heine]

We chose Numenera for the setting, knowing that we'd be able to adapt the system as needed (because we talked to Monte about it and he was cool with that). That said, we've found the Numenera system does not need as much adaptation as we once thought it would. A lot of the goodness and funness of it is because it puts power in the player's hands, which obviously is totally in line with what we're thinking.

 

[DeepOcean]

PS:T could have almost been an isometric Adventure game.

Redirect Dexter to RPG watch.

 

[felipepepe]

PS:T could have almost been an isometric Adventure game.

Redirect Dexter to RPG watch.

Yeah, get out of here, we all know PS:T should have been a Visual Novel.

 

[Takeda Kenshi]

Voted TB but my faith is lacking.

 

[Dexter]

PS:T could have almost been an isometric Adventure game.

Redirect Dexter to RPG watch.

Yeah, get out of here, we all know PS:T should have been a Visual Novel.

Oh boy, look at that, arguing against what I said with ridicule instead of an argument of your own.

Did you play PS:T because of the amazing combat and game mechanics it offers (like in many other TB games) or primarily because of its story, characters and setting?
Would you have ignored it if it was instead a party-based Adventure game in the style of Sanitarium or STASIS and would it have lost much of its appeal in such a case?

TToEE or Jagged Alliance 2 (or even Icewind Dale I/II for a combat-based RTwP game) it was not.

 

[felipepepe]

Oh boy, look at that, arguing against what I said with ridicule instead of an argument of your own.

Heh, who said I was joking?

 

[FeelTheRads]

Did you play PS:T because of the amazing combat and game mechanics it offers (like in many other TB games) or primarily because of its story, characters and setting?

This "argument" is not an argument. It's exactly the wrong way of looking at it. Maybe you only played it for the story because it had nothing else going for it?
How about if it had good combat too and played it for both story and combat? Otherwise, again, why have combat in the first place? Sure, it could have been an adventure game, but it was not. And this one will have combat too. So why the fuck wouldn't it be good if it's in? It's fucking absurd.