Game News Torment Kickstarter Update #53: Beta Released

[Kem0sabe]

How many combat encounters did inxile say the full game had?

 

[Prime Junta]

I tried making a combat-focused character (Strong Glaive) but got bored in the first encounter with Qorro & co. His to-hit chances are between Grueling and Impossible all the time, where Aligern and Callistege hit with their esoteries with Easy to Routine difficulty, and even their weapons attacks with Moderate difficulty.

Something's clearly off here. I'll wait for some patches before trying it again; there's so much stuff for noncombat/skill-focused characters to do that I'm curious to see what it's like to play a bruiser.

 

[Athelas]

So a combat-focused character is not very rewarding to play?

Sounds like they perfectly captured the Torment experience.

 

[commie]

I can't say any of those stories have left me dumbfounded, and they unfold in a rather characteristic manner.

Morte's was particularly disappointing to me. "Don't trust the skull" - no wait, you can pretty much entirely trust him

But you didn't know that at the start so there was always that thing where you weren't sure if it was false memory or genuine warning. So what's the problem? It would be the same if when getting 'don't trust the skull' you DON'T trust him and it turns out that GASP!!! The skull shouldn't be trusted!!!! That's something that wasn't expected!

 

[DosBuster]

Yeah, the issue with combat is more it currently has very little vfx, sound and the animations are very sluggish. I'm guessing the bruiser skills will be used in dialogue as a solution.

 

[Roguey]

I tried making a combat-focused character (Strong Glaive) but got bored in the first encounter with Qorro & co. His to-hit chances are between Grueling and Impossible all the time, where Aligern and Callistege hit with their esoteries with Easy to Routine difficulty, and even their weapons attacks with Moderate difficulty.

Something's clearly off here. I'll wait for some patches before trying it again; there's so much stuff for noncombat/skill-focused characters to do that I'm curious to see what it's like to play a bruiser.

So I see Monte Cook decided "fighters start off stronger than wizards, but wizards eventually outclass them by a million to one" wasn't good enough anymore and went straight to "wizards will always be better than fighters always. Take that jocks ;_;"

 

[Prime Junta]

Maybe so.

That's actually a problem with the Numenera mechanics -- a glaive isn't inherently any better at hitting things than a nano or jack, all get the same base difficulty to attack. The difference is in allowed equipment (heavy weapons, less penalty for armour) and powers picked on level-up (combat moves instead of esoteries or tricks of the trade). So a tier 1 glaive isn't really all that much better at martial combat than a tier 1 nano or jack. (TBH the glaive's progression is also kinda weak; I get the feeling that Monte, Shanna and the rest don't really dig fighter-types.)

<insert rant on everything that's wrong with the Numenera character system and mechanics>

 

[Roguey]

Is there some focus or descriptor you can use to give yourself an accuracy boost? Apparently there's a "throws with deadly accuracy" in the Numenera rules but I want a hits.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I can't say any of those stories have left me dumbfounded, and they unfold in a rather characteristic manner.

Morte's was particularly disappointing to me. "Don't trust the skull" - no wait, you can pretty much entirely trust him

But you didn't know that at the start so there was always that thing where you weren't sure if it was false memory or genuine warning. So what's the problem? It would be the same if when getting 'don't trust the skull' you DON'T trust him and it turns out that GASP!!! The skull shouldn't be trusted!!!! That's something that wasn't expected!

I agree. The fact that Morte was actually a bro, was good because well, he's a bro and it pushes further the idea that your previous incarnations were very different from each other.

 

[Caconym]

On the 'glaive problem' from one of the developers (edit: sorry, from an author of several unofficial supplements): http://theninthworld.com/sometimes-glaives-need-love/

Is there some focus or descriptor you can use to give yourself an accuracy boost? Apparently there's a "throws with deadly accuracy" in the Numenera rules but I want a hits.

Not gonna go through all the foci right now, but as per your character type, you can become Trained and then Specialized with certain weapons/attack moves which in turn makes hitting enemies easier. Unlike other skills, combat skills are hard-tied to the chartype progression ladder, so glaives - who get the most options in this field - are always gonna outperform nanos and jacks in pure physical combat as far as hit chances and weapon damage go (glaives share a big chunk of their "tree" with jacks though). So their abilities are typically less flashy and interesting, but more reliable in fights.

IIRC

 

[Prime Junta]

Is there some focus or descriptor you can use to give yourself an accuracy boost? Apparently there's a "throws with deadly accuracy" in the Numenera rules but I want a hits.

As far as I can remember, no, not in the official book anyway.

There are descriptors and foci that give you free training in a particular weapon type (light/medium/heavy edged/blunt/ranged). It's just a free skill though, not a bonus that stacks with other stuff. Any character can take the same training the usual way, and it won't stack on top of any other training you might want to take.

Glaives do get to train in combat skills right out of the gate; nanos and jacks can only do that from tier 2 up, and that by forgoing their Focus special ability for that tier, unless their Focus gives them these abilities (e.g. Carries a Quiver for ranged weapons, regardless of class).

The max bonus you can get from training is two levels; OTOH the max bonus you can get from Effort (on tier six) is six levels (or seven if you allow progress towards the non-existent tier 7), and Effort can be applied to anything. I.e. for a maximum-difficulty task (level 10), an untrained tier 6 doofus applying maximum Effort has to roll a 4 on a d6 to succeed, whereas someone Specialised in it will succeed with a 2. If both have access to top-drawer Assets, that's becomes a 2 for the untrained tier 6 doofus and automatic success for the specialist.

There are special abilities which can reduce difficulty by another level or two, which are only available for particular classes or foci.

I.e., training and specialisation matter less as the characters level up. An untrained tier 2-3 character with max Effort of 3 will be as good at any task as a specialised tier 1 character with max Effort 1, and a tier 4 pasty bookworm nano with no training in athletics, swimming, or anything remotely related can swim safely across a raging torrent (difficulty 6) by applying maximum Effort. The only difference between him and an Athletic Glaive of the same tier is that the glaive can do it with only 2 levels of Effort and likely has a Might edge of 2 or more so he won't need to take a recovery roll afterwards.

Edit: n.b. I was discussing Numenera the PnP system here, not T:ToN. I only ever got one dude to tier 2 so I haven't checked how closely they've implemented the character system, e.g. the possibility to swap your focus special for combat training may be an optional rule, and may not be in T:ToN.

 

[Crichton]

Fuck the haters; I'm definitely recruiting Billy Dee Williams. I'm not sold on Squanto and the chick from the Fifth Element though...

 

[DeepOcean]

The companions look meh but I need to see them in motion to be sure, on a positive side, I will name my character Han Solo and have Lando on my group.

 

[Prime Junta]

The companions look meh but I need to see them in motion to be sure, on a positive side, I will name my character Han Solo and have Lando on my group.

You can't name your character.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Have they said how much of the game this beta is?

 

[Prime Junta]

Have they said how much of the game this beta is?

I can't quote a source, but "40%" has been bandied. If so, it's not gonna be a big game.

The Pillars beta was about 10% and it had... about as much stuff in it as this one does, I would say, in scope. Similar number of maps, similar amounts of quests (T:ToN has more short ones, Pillars had fewer longer ones).

The difference is that T:ToN has way, way more reactivity and alternative quest solutions, so there's a lot of stuff there you won't see from a single playthrough.

 

[Kem0sabe]

I can't quote a source, but "40%" has been bandied. If so, it's not gonna be a big game.

The Pillars beta was about 10% and it had... about as much stuff in it as this one does, I would say, in scope. Similar number of maps, similar amounts of quests (T:ToN has more short ones, Pillars had fewer longer ones).

The difference is that T:ToN has way, way more reactivity and alternative quest solutions, so there's a lot of stuff there you won't see from a single playthrough.

Is it a short but highly repayable situation as AoD? Or simply short with reactive side content and a constant main quest?

 

[Prime Junta]

I don't think anything can measure up to AoD in terms of replayability.

But by any other standards, it's very very reactive. I'm not even sure there is a main quest qua main quest, instead, there are lots of quests which advance your objectives in various small ways, and they do have a lot of different ways to solve them, decisions to make, and outcomes.

(One of my beefs actually is that those small quests mesh all too neatly with your objectives. They're apparently unrelated -- a city official's problem with some tunnelling critters, an underworld murder mystery, a scholar wanting information on a particular piece of ancient tech -- but all of them somehow curiously fit perfectly with what you're doing.)

 

[Infinitron]

Have they said how much of the game this beta is?

I can't quote a source, but "40%" has been bandied. If so, it's not gonna be a big game.

Bandied by me. But it could be lower than that, as low as 33%. Source: Brother None

You could also look at the number of crises you've had and compare it to the total number we know there's going to be in the game (12-15)

 

[Prime Junta]

I'm actually not sure what counts as a crisis and what counts as a "mini-crisis." There's only really been one that I'm sure is a crisis; the other two I've had were straightforward combat encounters.

(Are you sure that the nycthemeron isn't Codex backer content? I mean a giant angry floating cocktopus that only calms down at night and shoots white stuff out of the tips of its tentacles to fight...?)

 

[Infinitron]

I suppose it might be complimentary Codex content. But we didn't create it.

 

[Kz3r0]

Kevin Saunders = Josh Sawyer with better PR?

More Sawyer ruining everything he touches.

 

[Kz3r0]

ITT I learned that the only acceptable characters in a work of fiction are straight white males or eldritch abominations from beyond time and space. Anything in between is ”cultural Marxism”.

Lovecratft approves.

 

[Kev Inkline]

Have they said how much of the game this beta is?

I can't quote a source, but "40%" has been bandied. If so, it's not gonna be a big game.

The Pillars beta was about 10% and it had... about as much stuff in it as this one does, I would say, in scope. Similar number of maps, similar amounts of quests (T:ToN has more short ones, Pillars had fewer longer ones).

The difference is that T:ToN has way, way more reactivity and alternative quest solutions, so there's a lot of stuff there you won't see from a single playthrough.

If the 40% guesstimate is anywhere near the true scope of the beta content, the game would be surprisingly short, based on the length of PoE: The median playthrough time on howlongtobeat (what is what it is, but nevertheless the best estimate we have available) for PoE is about 54-55 hrs. If PoE beta was 10% and TToN 40%, logic would dictate TToN lenght being about one quarter of PoE, or assuming similar player population playing and reporting at howlongtobeat, about 13-14 hours median time.

 

[Prime Junta]

If the 40% guesstimate is anywhere near the true scope of the beta content, the game would be surprisingly short, based on the length of PoE: The median playthrough time on howlongtobeat (what is what it is, but nevertheless the best estimate we have available) for PoE is about 54-55 hrs. If PoE beta was 10% and TToN 40%, logic would dictate TToN lenght being about one quarter of PoE, or assuming similar player population playing and reporting at howlongtobeat, about 13-14 hours median time.

Yeah, something like that, which would make it very short. I would expect 30-ish hours from a Torment successor at a minimum (for a first playthrough, speed runs or subsequent rounds when you just click through most of the dialog is a different bag o' nuts). I.e. if it's about half has big as Pillars it'd be enough, but if it's much less than that, it will be a pretty big minus.

(Also, there's a ton of optional content in Pillars. I doubt the median complete game includes completion of the Endless Paths for example. I certainly didn't complete it the first... and, I think, only ... time I finished it. Done since in playthroughs I haven't finished though.)