KickStarter Thimbleweed Park: A New Ron Gilbert Classic Point & Click Adventure

[Bumvelcrow]

Yeah, seriously, seeing the art and animation in person makes all the difference. That engine Ron Gilbert cooked up for it really makes me salivate. I wish I had that kind of tool to work with; it does low res looking graphics with higher-res functions easily, like parallax and smooth animations, zooms, etc. Good looking stuff.

From the FAQ:

Are you going to open source the game engine?
We don't know. If we do, it won't be until the project is done. Open sourcing is not as simple and just releasing a bunch of code, and you'd get to see what a crappy programmer I am.

Better get Ron Gilbert on your Christmas card list...

 

[tuluse]

I'm pretty sure it is as simple as just setting up a github repository and throwing on a bog standard license.

 

[Bumvelcrow]

I'm pretty sure it is as simple as just setting up a github repository and throwing on a bog standard license.

If they want to make it useable then they'll have to make sure they've documented everything, which every programmer knows is a tiresome waste of time.

 

[CryptRat]

Their trailers are very appealing.

 

[LESS T_T]

Oh, forgot to post this: https://blog.thimbleweedpark.com/content_complete

It's been a busy last few weeks. The stress is really starting to get to me. I don't handle stress well. I tend to become hyper-focused on the cause of stress, which often makes it worse. There is nothing more or less stressful about finishing Thimbleweed Park than any other game I've done. It always happens.

When it gets to this point, I always say "I'll never do this again", then I do.

On October 15th, we're scheduled to hit "content complete". Every project and company has a different definition for content complete, mine is: every piece of art, animation, sound, music and puzzle is in the game. If not for bugs, you could ship the game.

Content complete is important, because up to that point, you're probably creating more bugs then you're fixing. After content complete, it should be about fixing bugs. The list should always be getting smaller, not bigger.

I also think content complete is an important milestone because it forces you to finish the damn game. I come across so many indie developers that don't know how to finish, they keep adding and changing. Having a firm date you drive towards is important, you won't ever finish without it.

We could work on Thimbleweed Park for two more years. It would make the game different, but probably not better. Just finish your damn game.

October 15th: Content complete. Oh shit, that's 5 days away. We're screwed.

No, we're fine. We always are.

I extracted all the text a few weeks ago and was shocked.

There are over 16,000 recordable lines in the game. That's twice what I expected. It was a "oh shit" moment.

Since then we've gone through the game and found a lot of places where all 5 characters are saying something, but realized that only one of them will ever actually say it. We've also found several places where it's easy (and makes sense from a game/story standpoint) to block a character from a small section of the world. This has also saved a lot of dialog. We were also letting all 5 characters do stuff that is "official binsness" that only the agents should be doing. That has also saved dialog.

It's still going to end up being 50% more dialog than I expected, and that's going to put budget pressure on us, but it should be fine.

In hindsight, I should have realized this. In hindsight, I should have been extracting the dialog on a monthly basis and keeping a better eye on it. Writing is fun. We used to say "dialog is free", but that's no longer the case.

Also preview video of iPhone version:

 

[DeepOcean]

Gonna D1P this so hard.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

This just keeps looking better and better. Seems like Ron is going to show all those other nostalgia-milking kickstarters how it's done.

 

[HoboForEternity]

This just keeps looking better and better. Seems like Ron is going to show all those other nostalgia-milking kickstarters how it's done.

Tim Scammer particularly*

 

[ghostdog]

This looks to be shaping up even better than I expected when I first backed it.

 

[LESS T_T]

Ron Gilbert talks about the death and return of old school adventures, modern 'press A to continue' games, desire to buy back his own creations from Disney: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...rt-and-the-return-of-the-8-bit-adventure-game

[...]

"When we were making games back then, it was all kind of new," Gilbert remembers. "We didn't have anything to go from, so it was a more innocent time. Games today, although I love modern adventure games like Firewatch or Kentucky Route Zero, they are very deep and thoughtful. They require a lot from me as a player, or the viewer, because there are very interesting, deep messages that I am gleaming from this stuff. And that's largely just the advancement of the art form. The games of the '80s and early '90s, they were just more innocent, and simple and therefore more charming.

"Adventure games have certainly improved. Visually, games like Firewatch are much more advanced. But I think they've advanced in some ways and they've actually de-evolved in others. I think they're more advanced because they are trying to tell more meaningful stories, stories that are truly about something interesting or important.

"But in other ways, they haven't moved forward. Games like Kentucky Route Zero... although I enjoyed that game quite a bit, I sort of jokingly call it the 'press A to continue game', because I didn't feel like I was making a lot of choices. I was just kind of pressing the A button to get to the next piece of dialogue, and it was greatly written dialogue and it was a captivating world, which made it ok. In Firewatch, you are spending a lot of time walking around and exploring this world, and it is a very fascinating world and a very beautiful place, so I was utterly enthralled with it, but there's not actually a lot to do. The old school adventure games really required you to work. It was a case of: 'here is a load of puzzles and here is a bunch of story, and you have to solve all these puzzles, which should lead to uncovering the next part of the mystery'. The classic adventure games were more sophisticated in that sense."

Like Yooka-Laylee with Banjo-Kazooie and Bloodstained with Castlevania, Thimbleweed Park is a game that could easily have had the words 'Maniac Mansion' or 'Monkey Island' plastered on the artwork. Gilbert does hope his new IP can be successful enough to become a series, but he also, quite publicly, wants to revisit those classic franchises that made his name. Both Maniac Mansion and Monkey Island were created at LucasArts, so the rights to them currently reside in the vaults somewhere at Disney's HQ.

Disney has largely moved on from video games, and Gilbert has asked the media giant on Twitter to let him buy back the rights to his old franchises. To no avail, so far.

We ended our conversation by asking Gilbert if he had considered returning to Kickstarter to raise the funds he might need to acquire those 1990s brands.

"Buying the rights back for those games... it's not a matter of money, it is a matter of Disney being willing to sell them," Gilbert concludes. "If Disney came to me and said: 'Hey, we'll sell you Monkey Island'. I will go get the money. No amount of crowd-funding is going to make this happen, it's just a case of Disney agreeing to sell them.

"I've not managed to talk to anyone at Disney who is high enough up the ladder to make that decision. I fear that the people who would make that decision have no idea what Monkey Island is."

 

[HoboForEternity]

fuck disney. they aren't doing anything with it anyway.

 

[evdk]

fuck disney. they aren't doing anything with it anyway.

Disney is like the Devil, hoarding IP/souls, never giving anything back. They don't need to use it, they just must have it.

Hopefully Ron knows how to play some mean violin.

 

[Infinitron]

I fear that the people who would make that decision have no idea what Monkey Island is."

They know what Pirates of the Caribbean is though, which may be a bigger problem.

 

[MRY]

I think they're more advanced because they are trying to tell more meaningful stories, stories that are truly about something interesting or important.

Even as an adult, I think the stories of the adventure games of the 90s are more meaningful, interesting, and important than Firewatch and Kentucky Route Zero.

A friend of mine once espoused a theory that we are so accustomed to associating smarts with weirdness that weird people are generally presumed to be smarter than they are (much to my advantage), whereas a seemingly normal but whip-smart person will never be thought to be a "genius" because he lacks eccentricity. In the same way, I think games are afflicted by the college literary magazine mindset about fiction -- that a rollicking story is never going to be meaningful, interesting, or important just like a regular seeming guy is never going to be a genius. Firewatch and KR0 are adorned with giant neon signs that say "MEANING HERE" (in an ironical hipster font), whereas Loom, Monkey Island, and Quest for Glory have Obi-Wan waving you past them telling you that these aren't the stories you're looking for. But I'm enormously skeptical that KR0 or Firewatch actually has had much meaning for anyone -- just the affect of Serious Storytelling and the confirmation of (some subset of) player prejudices. When a game reviewer tells you that Firewatch is Really Important what he means is that it is a game he would be comfortable pretending to likeadmitting to liking in a coffee shop discussion about new media. It's the kind of game that could be discussed on RadioLab or something.

While Space Quest's story might be dumb, its subversiveness actually changed the way I thought about games. While QFG's story is thin and pretty hodgepodge, if nothing else it introduced me and billion other people to Baba Yaga and gave us an entry point into that non-existent Slavic folklore that the Witcher games shouldn't be allowed to adhere to. While Loom is fully of silly moments and weird allusions to Maleficent and the Wizard of Oz, its message about pacifism and perseverance -- not a message directly stated -- lingers longer than anything pounded into your head by modern Serious Stories.

Like Disney movies -- which people love to crap on -- these old adventure games were often telling pretty straightforward stories of plucky outsider heroes who will never give up against any kind of obstacle. That story is well-worn not because it is unimportant but because it is integral to human well-being. Not everything needs to be Philip Roth. And, incidentally, it's not like the people writing KR0 and Firewatch are Philip Roth anyway. Stories about middle aged ennui are not particularly important because that ennui will come to us willy-nilly. "Life is full of seemingly insurmountable problems. But all around you, if you are careful and creative, are the tools you need to overcome them." That is an important story. "You can change things for the better without blowing things up." That is a meaningful message. "Here is a stranger navigating a strange land." That is interesting.

The fact that people loved and found great pleasure in the stories of old school adventure games doesn't mean that they are "unadvanced" stories any more than the fact that someone isn't weird proves that he's not a genius.

 

[Blackthorne]

You said it better than I could have. People enjoy feeling like they're smarter and often take the shortcut through prescribed motions of "eccentricity". These kind of games make people believe they're in some kind of upper echelon of society, but they're just idiots like most of us.

As for Monkey Island and Disney - let me tell you, Disney is much, much more savvy with their IPs than you might think. They know everything, from the largest money makers to the smallest properties. As has been mentioned, I'm sure someone there is well aware of a link between the PotC franchise and the Monkey Island games. PotC, as a film franchise, earns them billions - and they want to protect that kind of investment.


Bt

 

[Tramboi]

I have been playing games for 30 years or something, I work in the industry, so maybe I'm getting bored with gaming.
But I have to say "why can't we have both ?".
You can enjoy reading "Nouveau Roman" and "The three musketeers".
What we badly need is originality, at least in the background department. For adventure and RPGs alike. Every time I see a dragon in a cookie cutter heroic fantasy world (PoE, you hear me), I cringe.

Not saying that every hipsterish pretentious game is automatically a masterpiece, eh

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Firewatch and Kentucky Route Zero.

Just a quick question out of curiosity, have you actually played those?

 

[MRY]

Parts. I almost never have time or interest to finish games these days, so I play a little and read spoilers.

[EDIT: You reach an age where you have to put down things you don't like, believe it or not, and even things you do.]

 

[Archibald]

But I have to say "why can't we have both ?".

I think whole point here is that media people are constantly pushing this idea of how games and gamers need to grow up and tackle "serious topics". People need to push back on this argument so that we can actually have "both".

 

[tuluse]

While Loom is fully of silly moments and weird allusions to Maleficent and the Wizard of Oz, its message about pacifism and perseverance -- not a message directly stated -- lingers longer than anything pounded into your head by modern Serious Stories.

For such a short game, and ostensibly being for kids, Loom has a lot going on. Exploration of fatalism vs free will, the destructive and creative power of dynamism vs the quiet death of stagnation, and a rather good exploration of morality.

Also that melancholy gallows humor throughout the game. The opening where you click on the leaf and Bobbin just deadpans (with what I imagine is an internal sigh) "the last leaf of autumn", was just stunningly beautiful to me as a kid in ways I'm still not sure I have the vocabulary to explain.

 

[MRY]

But I have to say "why can't we have both ?".

I think whole point here is that media people are constantly pushing this idea of how games and gamers need to grow up and tackle "serious topics". People need to push back on this argument so that we can actually have "both".

Yes, I think this is basically right. There can be a real price in constantly being agreeable to a philosophy that says the things you like are lame. I don't see any reason why people shouldn't play Firewatch and Kentucky Route Zero if they enjoy the games, and by all means, if it provokes their thoughts, the games have given them something wonderful and they should proclaim it loudly. But the proper response to "The things you love are terrible and the things I love are great" can't always be "I hear what you're saying, and it's not without merit." Even if you are so strong willed that such endless concessions don't erode your confident enjoyment of what you like, not everyone is as strong willed as you -- fans and creators both can come to doubt their tastes. If someone says something you love sucks and something you don't like is great, it's sometimes a good idea to express your disagreement, albeit politely.

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...new-classic-point-and-click-adv/posts/1739789

Don’t despair… Thimbleweed Park is closer than ever to completion…

You ask: Where is the game?!

We say: Trust us, we’re as anxious to finish the game as you are to play it.


Don't cry, Reyes! The game is almost complete!


It’s been awhile since we spoke. Don’t worry, it’s not you, it’s totally us. We’ve been pushing hard to meet all kinds of milestones: text lock, content complete, adding backer inventory items, PAX West, filling the library with books, eating lunch.

And now we’ve just reached a new, BIG, milestone: ZERO BUGS!! That means we’re really going to finish the game soon!

You can read all about it on the dev blog that Ron posts to at least once a week:https://blog.thimbleweedpark.com/zero_bugs

We’re trying hard not to bug you a lot on these Kickstarter emails. We’ll post about your deadlines for submitting your postal address and checking your final order with PledgeManager. We’ll also start posting about the release date of early 2017 as we get closer.

BUT… If you want to stay really up to date with what we’re up to in development and get a behind the scenes look at everything we’ll do to launch and ship the game, you should sign up for ThimbleMail™.

You can also follow along on your chosen social media platform (or all of them):Twitter (includes Throwback Thursday posts), Facebook (includes Team Tuesday posts),Instagram (will include character profiles).

Feel free to reach out to the team with questions via Kickstarter messages, any of the platforms we just listed, or you can send us an email at support@thimbleweedpark.com.

 

[LESS T_T]

https://blog.thimbleweedpark.com/tutorials

Tutorials

I hate tutorials. I really hate tutorials. Let me just get that out of the way.

OK, now all that said, I just got done adding the tutorial to Thimbleweed Park.

Working on tutorials isn't something that I hate, it's something that actually makes me angry. Tutorials have about as much place in narrative games as they do in a movie. Can you imagine sitting down to watch a film and having pop-ups come on screen to tell you who the protagonist was and when a plot point happened?

Now, the big difference in a movie and a game is, when watching a movie you just sit there. Understanding the movie might affect your enjoyment, but not understanding who the protagonist is doesn't cause the film to stop, or move in slow motion. I will grant you that.

I think the main reason I hate tutorials is they are conditioning players to be un-inquisitive. Modern players often expect to be led through the experience, and it's starting to go beyond just the tutorial, but into the game itself. Some players don't want to explore, they want to be told where to go and what to do. They are being conditioned to do only what they are told to do.

For me, part of the enjoyment of starting a new game is figuring out what I can and cannot do. I enjoy exploring the bounds of the game. I want to feel clever when I figure out a short cut.

The problem Thimbleweed Park (and any point and click adventure) has is that it's complex. Not just in the logic, but the UI.

In the good old days, it would take 20 minutes to install the game from floppy, so to kill some time, we'd read the manual.

Today, players just jump right into the game and a large share of them are immediately frustrated when they don't know exactly what to do (I'm not talking about the puzzles, but what to click on and how).

If you're well versed in the language of adventure games, then it's quite self evident, but if you're new to adventure games, it can be a little unwieldy. Part of the goal of Thimbleweed Park is to convince a large group of people that love narrative games, but don't play point-and-click games, to give Thimbleweed park a shot. If you liked Fire Watch or Gone Home, you'll love Thimbleweed Park.

But, Thimbleweed Park is a lot more complex than either of those two games and can be daunting to a new-to-point-and-click player.

For those people, I think we need a tutorial (please understand I can came to this conclusion kicking and screaming).

Since the beginning, the story of Thimbleweed Park started out in this little self-contained area, and we designed the first few puzzles to teach you the basics: opening a door, talking to someone, picking up objects and using them.

While this steps a new player through the basics early on, it's not telling you "how" to do these things and that is where a small, lightweight tutorial comes in. "This is how you open a door" and "this is how you pickup an object and use it".

How to do these thins probably seems obvious to everyone reading this blog, but if you've never played a point-and-click adventure before, it's actually not. You couple this with some players reluctance to just explore the UI and it's going to be tears all around (mostly from me when I have to go get a real job).

The compromise I reached with myself is: the tutorial will only happen in "easy" mode. If you select hard mode and dive right in, we're going to assume you know what you're doing, or you don't mind a good challenge.

I felt dirty for a day, then took a good shower and now I feel fine.

We're hoping to get a chance to test the tutorial out on casual players that have never played a point-and-click adventure. Given the circles we travel in, that's harder than it might sound.

- Ron

 

[tuluse]

Damn, Ron just gets it.

 

[CryptRat]

Part of the goal of Thimbleweed Park is to convince a large group of people that love narrative games, but don't play point-and-click games, to give Thimbleweed park a shot. If you liked Fire Watch or Gone Home, you'll love Thimbleweed Park.

I'm not completely sure that I want that they like the game .