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So this is a sequel to..."Golden Roofs"? A FM I can't even find?
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Thief fan missions and campaigns
- Thread starter SCO
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cowking
Scholar
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Ok so I played Keeper of Infinity - Bad Venture for about 3 hours or something. I actually really... really wanted to like this mission, and I could have forgiven the stupidity of the first two puzzles... but the third one (bush) was just as retarded and killed it for me.
The visuals and lighting are the best I've seen in any T1/T2 fm, the music is spot on, it could've been such a fantastic atmospheric hardcore mission if the mandatory puzzles weren't impossible to figure out because they act outside vanilla game behaviour with no mention of it. It even had my favorite trinket (scouting orb) with a new lens and it was actually useful, but when the player has to watch a youtube walkthrough to figure out how to break fucking boards with a crowbar it means the author is a dumbfuck.
I actually played the old version of this fm because i downloaded from southquarter, I don't how much better the new one is, and I can't be arsed to find out.
What a shame.
The visuals and lighting are the best I've seen in any T1/T2 fm, the music is spot on, it could've been such a fantastic atmospheric hardcore mission if the mandatory puzzles weren't impossible to figure out because they act outside vanilla game behaviour with no mention of it. It even had my favorite trinket (scouting orb) with a new lens and it was actually useful, but when the player has to watch a youtube walkthrough to figure out how to break fucking boards with a crowbar it means the author is a dumbfuck.
I actually played the old version of this fm because i downloaded from southquarter, I don't how much better the new one is, and I can't be arsed to find out.
What a shame.
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Yandros
Savant
That more or less summed up the general reaction to it over here. And the author's response to most of the criticism seemed to be, "I don't care."
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Feeling tafferish, I thought I'd revisit one of my favourite Thief FMs and see whether it holds up to the memories I have of playing it long ago.
"Ruins of Originia" is an ambitious FM pack from 2002 that seemed to stretch the boundaries of the Dark Engine. Boasting large, complex areas and tons of custom content, they put Garrett on an epic trek into the depths of a vast mountain...and beyond. Originally slated to feature 12 missions, only 4 were ever released...but are they a sight to see. They're also quite challenging, in some way due to brilliance...and in other ways due to insanity.
The main plot involves Garrett hunting down a rogue Hammerite priest (who may be more than he seems) to kill him and recover a powerful book. This objective is anything but straightforward, as it involves entering the Mines of Margroth and traversing through ancient underground ruins, just to reach him. Throw in the various monsters, the local Thieves's Guild, an entire pantheon of long-lost deities, a truckload of Burricks and an interdimensional museum, and you'll realize that this is one hell of an adventure for our man Garrett.
In some ways the age of this FM pack shows, and yet in others it feels remarkably fresh. It's clear to me from the author's design decisions (and how they're implemented) that he sought to distance Thief a bit from standard Thief gameplay, and instead make it a little more like Looking Glass's older titles, System Shock and Ultima Underworld. Strange as that sounds, he succeeded. The first mission gives a strong Stygian Abyss-vibe, while the last mission gives a strong Labyrinth of Worlds-feeling. Instead of building complex cityscapes with all the amenities, he opts for simpler, barely settled areas, placing the focus of this FM on exploration and discovery rather than stealth and thieving.
It's not all fancy, though. A large portion of the FMs are clearly designed on graph paper - right angles and cardinal directions with everything built out of 'blocks' of terrain. Only the piss-poor third mission is exempt from this, but frankly I'm not sure if that's a good thing or bad. There are also some design decisions that are highly questionable. There are loads of new things to find and experiment with, but only the most essential ones are explained in-game, leaving many things to the capable hands of Mr. Trial N. Erro, but even some things may be beyond his grasp. This is the biggest reason people are told to grab the walkthrough right off the bat.
And then there's the level design. When it's good it's good, but when it's bad...it's really bad. The mining town at the start of the first FM has a rustic charm to it that only the OMs could have cooked up, and large parts of the ruins are truly a joy to explore. Strange machinery, otherworldly areas and bizarre locations quickly become par for the course. But there were times I wanted to slap the author. To enter a certain loot-loaded crypt, Garrett must drink a Speed Potion and race against a timer. Makes sense as an optional objective, but what at first appears to be a convulated method to score loot ends up being the only way to progress. The second mission immediately starts with a "find the correct path"-puzzle, followed up by the infamous grab-the-rope-in-the-water-current puzzle - something that no one will ever get on their first try. Once past this ordeal, the mission then becomes a strong entry into the Backtracker's Guide to the Galaxy - much of which could easily have been mitigated by a hint of common sense and clever design. The third mission involves two things - finding the exit in a maze of tunnels, and killing all the burricks. Even the brilliant final mission in the pack is not exempt from design blunders - the floor of the interdimensional museum, for example...why was it so hard to create a FLAT, EVEN FLOOR?!? Walking down a short corridor takes forever. Every step of the Rainbow Rose puzzle is done as badly as one could think is possible, and let's just not talk about the Invisible Key that must go in the Invisible Lock...
But despite all its shortcomings and all its troubles, I for one was left wanting more. The author is clearly brilliant, but his brilliance only needs to be tempered by reason to turn a set of interesting FMs into truly wonderful FMs.
Overall, I rate Ruins of Originia 7.5/10. It's old and not for puritan taffers, but it stands firm as a testament to the flexibility of the Dark Engine, and one I recommend that players at least try to play through once.
"Ruins of Originia" is an ambitious FM pack from 2002 that seemed to stretch the boundaries of the Dark Engine. Boasting large, complex areas and tons of custom content, they put Garrett on an epic trek into the depths of a vast mountain...and beyond. Originally slated to feature 12 missions, only 4 were ever released...but are they a sight to see. They're also quite challenging, in some way due to brilliance...and in other ways due to insanity.
The main plot involves Garrett hunting down a rogue Hammerite priest (who may be more than he seems) to kill him and recover a powerful book. This objective is anything but straightforward, as it involves entering the Mines of Margroth and traversing through ancient underground ruins, just to reach him. Throw in the various monsters, the local Thieves's Guild, an entire pantheon of long-lost deities, a truckload of Burricks and an interdimensional museum, and you'll realize that this is one hell of an adventure for our man Garrett.
In some ways the age of this FM pack shows, and yet in others it feels remarkably fresh. It's clear to me from the author's design decisions (and how they're implemented) that he sought to distance Thief a bit from standard Thief gameplay, and instead make it a little more like Looking Glass's older titles, System Shock and Ultima Underworld. Strange as that sounds, he succeeded. The first mission gives a strong Stygian Abyss-vibe, while the last mission gives a strong Labyrinth of Worlds-feeling. Instead of building complex cityscapes with all the amenities, he opts for simpler, barely settled areas, placing the focus of this FM on exploration and discovery rather than stealth and thieving.
It's not all fancy, though. A large portion of the FMs are clearly designed on graph paper - right angles and cardinal directions with everything built out of 'blocks' of terrain. Only the piss-poor third mission is exempt from this, but frankly I'm not sure if that's a good thing or bad. There are also some design decisions that are highly questionable. There are loads of new things to find and experiment with, but only the most essential ones are explained in-game, leaving many things to the capable hands of Mr. Trial N. Erro, but even some things may be beyond his grasp. This is the biggest reason people are told to grab the walkthrough right off the bat.
And then there's the level design. When it's good it's good, but when it's bad...it's really bad. The mining town at the start of the first FM has a rustic charm to it that only the OMs could have cooked up, and large parts of the ruins are truly a joy to explore. Strange machinery, otherworldly areas and bizarre locations quickly become par for the course. But there were times I wanted to slap the author. To enter a certain loot-loaded crypt, Garrett must drink a Speed Potion and race against a timer. Makes sense as an optional objective, but what at first appears to be a convulated method to score loot ends up being the only way to progress. The second mission immediately starts with a "find the correct path"-puzzle, followed up by the infamous grab-the-rope-in-the-water-current puzzle - something that no one will ever get on their first try. Once past this ordeal, the mission then becomes a strong entry into the Backtracker's Guide to the Galaxy - much of which could easily have been mitigated by a hint of common sense and clever design. The third mission involves two things - finding the exit in a maze of tunnels, and killing all the burricks. Even the brilliant final mission in the pack is not exempt from design blunders - the floor of the interdimensional museum, for example...why was it so hard to create a FLAT, EVEN FLOOR?!? Walking down a short corridor takes forever. Every step of the Rainbow Rose puzzle is done as badly as one could think is possible, and let's just not talk about the Invisible Key that must go in the Invisible Lock...
But despite all its shortcomings and all its troubles, I for one was left wanting more. The author is clearly brilliant, but his brilliance only needs to be tempered by reason to turn a set of interesting FMs into truly wonderful FMs.
Overall, I rate Ruins of Originia 7.5/10. It's old and not for puritan taffers, but it stands firm as a testament to the flexibility of the Dark Engine, and one I recommend that players at least try to play through once.
That's incredible. DromEd usually yells at me and kills my whole family if I have a couple of unsnapped terrain brushes and Terra managed to make a whole mission unsnapped.
That's because in Soviet Russia, FM plays you!!
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The "Night of the Red Moon" FM has been pulled from servers until its problems can be addressed - it's now slated to be a Halloween release.
cowking
Scholar
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- Oct 18, 2016
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- 115
Deceptive Shadows for TDM.
After a pickpocket gone bad, you find yourself in a cell somewhere and you have to get out. Now... imagine yourself in a dark crypt with no lantern after your only candle burns out and no idea or clue what to do, wandering around trying to find a hidden rope arrow... a key... a switch? I don't know... because the player really has no clue. Things I tried after frob-in-the-dark:
- stacking crates to get out from a hole in the roof
- making a ruckus so the guards come put me out of my misery
- throwing apples at an orange painting on the wall... because apples and oranges?
- gathering dead rats inside a barrel because why not
That, my friends, is Deceptive Shadows.
On a sidenote, I really wish TDM mappers would stop doing bad lighting like this. Isn't there saturation control in the editor?
After a pickpocket gone bad, you find yourself in a cell somewhere and you have to get out. Now... imagine yourself in a dark crypt with no lantern after your only candle burns out and no idea or clue what to do, wandering around trying to find a hidden rope arrow... a key... a switch? I don't know... because the player really has no clue. Things I tried after frob-in-the-dark:
- stacking crates to get out from a hole in the roof
- making a ruckus so the guards come put me out of my misery
- throwing apples at an orange painting on the wall... because apples and oranges?
- gathering dead rats inside a barrel because why not
That, my friends, is Deceptive Shadows.
On a sidenote, I really wish TDM mappers would stop doing bad lighting like this. Isn't there saturation control in the editor?
I laughed harder than I should have.
Yandros
Savant
Terra has released an update to Night of the Red Moon. I checked it out in Dromed and it is indeed fully snapped even at grid 10. However there is tons of garbage in the ZIP file - 25MB in Thumbs.db files, 2 copies of all the LGS schema files which are unnecessary, a large PSD file, and unnecessarily huge mesh textures (2048x2048 for a skin? really? but at least they're DDS). I could probably shave 30-40MB off the ZIP file size just by cleaning it up, but I think instead I'll write a tutorial on how to streamline and minimize your mission ZIPs and post it in The Editor's Guild.
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Taken a brief look at it (long enough to get into town past the pointless Quadruple Lock portal)...it's too big. Bloated. Pointlessly large area after pointlessly large area, with pointlessly large furniture. Sewers big enough to serve as train tunnels. City architecture is pretty good, though.
Also, something seems off with the lighting map. In the wilderness there are bright spots that count as shadows, but take a few steps away from them and you're in full view.
Also, something seems off with the lighting map. In the wilderness there are bright spots that count as shadows, but take a few steps away from them and you're in full view.
cowking
Scholar
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2016
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- 115
Heart of Lone Salvation for TDM.
Third part of the thieves den series, this fm is completely detached from the previous ones (which are forgettable). It's mostly an interior mansion heist.
- visually it's one of the best looking TDM missions I've played, the interiors look fantastic and unlike anything I've seen before, which is a definite plus.
- the plot is actually good and interesting.
- it's got optional secrets, which I like, always a good test of your wit and perception.
- even though it has linear aspects (find key x to progress), it has multiple pathways and the mansion is big enough to be unlinear.
- every keyhunt and puzzle has a clue, I was able to complete everything except the second last puzzle without seeking assistance.
But really, this fm basically has no weakness, and there is nothing to bitch about. Anyone who wants to play a good TDM mission should play this.
______________________________
Thieves Den 4: Alchemist for TDM.
Sequel to Heart of Lone Salvation, I can't imagine why an fm maker would rape his name like so. This missions feels like bobby's first day in dromed after HoLS. Either it was done uncaringly and rushed or the other authors besides fidcal had a massive impact on HoLS.
- the lighting is bad and the level design is just empty and blocky.
- readables (nearly non-existent) that are cut off and clearly miss pages without intent, plus the writing is just bad like the villain spelling out his only vulnerability to the player.
- water bugs where you suddenly drop out of water... underwater.
- this fm doesn't even have a map even though it takes place in a city district. Talk about lazy.
Trash.
edit: so it seems this was mostly done by sotha and then patched to somewhat playable condition by fidcal, and this was sotha's first mission or something.
Third part of the thieves den series, this fm is completely detached from the previous ones (which are forgettable). It's mostly an interior mansion heist.
- visually it's one of the best looking TDM missions I've played, the interiors look fantastic and unlike anything I've seen before, which is a definite plus.
- the plot is actually good and interesting.
- it's got optional secrets, which I like, always a good test of your wit and perception.
- even though it has linear aspects (find key x to progress), it has multiple pathways and the mansion is big enough to be unlinear.
- every keyhunt and puzzle has a clue, I was able to complete everything except the second last puzzle without seeking assistance.
But really, this fm basically has no weakness, and there is nothing to bitch about. Anyone who wants to play a good TDM mission should play this.
______________________________
Thieves Den 4: Alchemist for TDM.
Sequel to Heart of Lone Salvation, I can't imagine why an fm maker would rape his name like so. This missions feels like bobby's first day in dromed after HoLS. Either it was done uncaringly and rushed or the other authors besides fidcal had a massive impact on HoLS.
- the lighting is bad and the level design is just empty and blocky.
- readables (nearly non-existent) that are cut off and clearly miss pages without intent, plus the writing is just bad like the villain spelling out his only vulnerability to the player.
- water bugs where you suddenly drop out of water... underwater.
- this fm doesn't even have a map even though it takes place in a city district. Talk about lazy.
Trash.
edit: so it seems this was mostly done by sotha and then patched to somewhat playable condition by fidcal, and this was sotha's first mission or something.
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Had a closer look at "Night of the Red Moon" - currently stuck, but I've seen enough to notice some glaring problems.
The author hasn't learned a thing from this last FM, that's for certain. Once again the lockpicks are seperated, and this time they're not even lockpicks, but tools.
Four vital item dumps are colored the exact same way as their immediate surroundings, making them nearly impossible to spot.
Flashbombs are thrown at the player for no reason from time to time - this does nothing but annoy.
Then there's the question of the blackjack replacement, which is a frying pan. Is it located by any of several stoves found in the FM? No. Is it located on the rack of frying pans in a tricky-to-reach kitchen? Nope. Is it located in a kitchen at all? Nuh-uh. Where is it then? It's located in a chest in an abandoned attic high up, guarded by a spider.
Light mapping is defintely off. I can be hiding behind a corner of a building, only for me to be suddenly standing fully visible before I've rounded the corner and am still standing in darkness.
Some guards don't react to me at all.
This FM doesn't have one, but at least FOUR Quadruple Locks. Because they're so amusing to solve...or not.
At one point must a ladder be placed to cross over a closed gate outside of the city. This leads to a closed-off area that contains the order hideout that people are supposed to reach at one point. The drop down from the gate is pretty high though, so a Slow-Fall Potion is provided. However, the way back is not through the gate you just crossed, but by a one-way drop from a ledge that's reached through a short passage. In other words, you can leave and re-enter this enclosed area, but the only way to enter is to fall off the gate - and since only one Slow-Fall Potion is provided, players must take the fall damage every time afterwards. Why this had to be so complicated, when he could simply have slapped a lever that opened the gate on the other side so that the gate needed only to be climbed once, is beyond me.
But the cityscape is good, which is the best thing I have to say about this FM so far.
The author hasn't learned a thing from this last FM, that's for certain. Once again the lockpicks are seperated, and this time they're not even lockpicks, but tools.
Four vital item dumps are colored the exact same way as their immediate surroundings, making them nearly impossible to spot.
Flashbombs are thrown at the player for no reason from time to time - this does nothing but annoy.
Then there's the question of the blackjack replacement, which is a frying pan. Is it located by any of several stoves found in the FM? No. Is it located on the rack of frying pans in a tricky-to-reach kitchen? Nope. Is it located in a kitchen at all? Nuh-uh. Where is it then? It's located in a chest in an abandoned attic high up, guarded by a spider.
Light mapping is defintely off. I can be hiding behind a corner of a building, only for me to be suddenly standing fully visible before I've rounded the corner and am still standing in darkness.
Some guards don't react to me at all.
This FM doesn't have one, but at least FOUR Quadruple Locks. Because they're so amusing to solve...or not.
At one point must a ladder be placed to cross over a closed gate outside of the city. This leads to a closed-off area that contains the order hideout that people are supposed to reach at one point. The drop down from the gate is pretty high though, so a Slow-Fall Potion is provided. However, the way back is not through the gate you just crossed, but by a one-way drop from a ledge that's reached through a short passage. In other words, you can leave and re-enter this enclosed area, but the only way to enter is to fall off the gate - and since only one Slow-Fall Potion is provided, players must take the fall damage every time afterwards. Why this had to be so complicated, when he could simply have slapped a lever that opened the gate on the other side so that the gate needed only to be climbed once, is beyond me.
But the cityscape is good, which is the best thing I have to say about this FM so far.
Random_Taffer
Educated
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2015
- Messages
- 88
It's located in a chest in an abandoned attic high up, guarded by a spider.
Actually laughed aloud at this. Garrett will steal a lot of things, but he could never bring himself to steal currently utilized cookware. What if they wanted to make an omelet? A man has to have standards.
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Finished the FM. Further points of note:
The soundscape is also off. Sounds cut in and out in many places. Guards patrolling almost next to you become silent as they pass through these gaps.
The mission is one giant run-around fetch quest. To enter town you need to find four gems.
Once in town you need to find four magic candles, but before you can start looking for them you need to find your lockpicks. One of them is located in a locked lockbox, for which you need the other one which is located on a workbench in a room early on.
To find candle #1 you need two non-magical candles, an urn and some flowers to get another set of ashes from a tomb, which are to be used in a secret passage that you needed a special sword to enter. Better make sure you've found the key to the tomb first.
To find candle #2 you need to find four scepters which are located all about town. For one of them you need to find three wine bottles and get a ghost drunk.
To find candle #3 you need to find the Mage's hideout outside of town, and find the four Elemental Seals there to unlock a special room on the upper floor.
To find candle #4 you need to find 2 keys, one of which was eaten by a burrick, and the other is stuck in a clogged fountain, with each of those requiring an item to get the key.
Then you need to complete an objective about finding info about the order. To complete that, you need to find three books and return them to the library.
That's close to 40 items that you need to find and put in their proper places.
Frankly, this FM isn't worth the effort, but at least the author is getting better.
The soundscape is also off. Sounds cut in and out in many places. Guards patrolling almost next to you become silent as they pass through these gaps.
The mission is one giant run-around fetch quest. To enter town you need to find four gems.
Once in town you need to find four magic candles, but before you can start looking for them you need to find your lockpicks. One of them is located in a locked lockbox, for which you need the other one which is located on a workbench in a room early on.
To find candle #1 you need two non-magical candles, an urn and some flowers to get another set of ashes from a tomb, which are to be used in a secret passage that you needed a special sword to enter. Better make sure you've found the key to the tomb first.
To find candle #2 you need to find four scepters which are located all about town. For one of them you need to find three wine bottles and get a ghost drunk.
To find candle #3 you need to find the Mage's hideout outside of town, and find the four Elemental Seals there to unlock a special room on the upper floor.
To find candle #4 you need to find 2 keys, one of which was eaten by a burrick, and the other is stuck in a clogged fountain, with each of those requiring an item to get the key.
Then you need to complete an objective about finding info about the order. To complete that, you need to find three books and return them to the library.
That's close to 40 items that you need to find and put in their proper places.
Frankly, this FM isn't worth the effort, but at least the author is getting better.
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Just when I thought there wasn't anything worse than key hunt.
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- May 13, 2009
- Messages
- 27,239
Still doing some taffing, dug into my archive:
"A Night at the Theatre" is very small, very old and very basic T2 FM...but also surprisingly challenging and has some interesting ideas. Ghosting it seems impossible, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone's done it.
"Dirty Business" has Garrett returning to the Cragscleft Mines to scout out a freshly uncovered Lost City-ruin...meaning that a good chunk of the map is a recycled OM. This FM is interesting because it has a lot of exposition done via voice acting and readables (and Audiolog Syndrome only crops up in one or two unfitting diaries) but is otherwise a somewhat basic affair overall, except perhaps for the camerabot overkill towards the end.
Both of these are worthy of bringing up for those that are wrestling with DromED, as they are good examples of 'Less is More', and 'How To Do Exposition Right (Except Missing The Previous Point)' respectively.
"A Night at the Theatre" is very small, very old and very basic T2 FM...but also surprisingly challenging and has some interesting ideas. Ghosting it seems impossible, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone's done it.
"Dirty Business" has Garrett returning to the Cragscleft Mines to scout out a freshly uncovered Lost City-ruin...meaning that a good chunk of the map is a recycled OM. This FM is interesting because it has a lot of exposition done via voice acting and readables (and Audiolog Syndrome only crops up in one or two unfitting diaries) but is otherwise a somewhat basic affair overall, except perhaps for the camerabot overkill towards the end.
Both of these are worthy of bringing up for those that are wrestling with DromED, as they are good examples of 'Less is More', and 'How To Do Exposition Right (Except Missing The Previous Point)' respectively.
Mechs Delight
Educated
You took the words right out of my mouth. Gives "overkill" a whole new meaning...
Mechs Delight
Educated
Never got into "A Night at the Theater," but I think I liked "Dirty Business" a little more than you did. I agree that the voiceovers and texts were interesting and pretty well done, but I personally thought the mission had just about the right level of difficulty, didn't mind this OM recycling too much, and the cameras didn't cause a great deal of difficulty.
(Sorry about the double post, but I didn't know how to multi-quote here until (hopefully) now.)
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Just to make it clear, I don't think it's bad...as far as I'm concerned, it's somewhere in the 'above average' category.
Another quick FM look - "In These Englightened Times" is a contestant in the so-called 'Water Contest' where water was the main theme - and this one pulls that off brilliantly. Garrett explores an abandoned monestary ruin in a swamp. The building is falling apart and is half-submerged in water, and has one of the riskiest dives I can recall. BUT, WARNING - this FM is currently incompatible with NewDark. A plot-vital item cannot be retrieved, therefore the mission cannot be finished. This bug was noticed over 2 years ago, yet it remains. A shame.
EDIT: And another: "Forbidden Rites" is an oldie but a goodie. Garrett investigates a Hammerite stronghold that seems to be on high alert and where his drinking buddy has gone missing. Can't be a coincidence, can it?
This one really doesn't do anything wrong - it's a solid Hammerite mission through and through. Though I lament the overly long journals and the Audiolog Syndrome therein, those accounts are themselves very well written, as is the entire mission in general.
Recommended.
Another quick FM look - "In These Englightened Times" is a contestant in the so-called 'Water Contest' where water was the main theme - and this one pulls that off brilliantly. Garrett explores an abandoned monestary ruin in a swamp. The building is falling apart and is half-submerged in water, and has one of the riskiest dives I can recall. BUT, WARNING - this FM is currently incompatible with NewDark. A plot-vital item cannot be retrieved, therefore the mission cannot be finished. This bug was noticed over 2 years ago, yet it remains. A shame.
EDIT: And another: "Forbidden Rites" is an oldie but a goodie. Garrett investigates a Hammerite stronghold that seems to be on high alert and where his drinking buddy has gone missing. Can't be a coincidence, can it?
This one really doesn't do anything wrong - it's a solid Hammerite mission through and through. Though I lament the overly long journals and the Audiolog Syndrome therein, those accounts are themselves very well written, as is the entire mission in general.
Recommended.
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