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The Valve and Steam Platform Discussion Thread

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
Patron
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
27,238
Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
Wow, nice save (not). Still doesn't answer my original question.

But whatever, I'm more interested in what other Codexers have to say at this point.

So long, and thanks for all the shill? ;)
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
On the one hand I want to defend Infi, on the other he's a fucking Trumpkin. But on the mutated third hand Unkillable Cat is a dumbfuck.
 

Alienman

Retro-Fascist
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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Anyone else having serious trouble with steam recently? My steam connection to community and profile have been wonky the last couple of days. It just get stuck on loading forever. Store get stuck as well sometimes.
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
More updates to the review system: http://store.steampowered.com/news/24155/

- Filtering/display options (positive/negative, purchase type, language)
- Now overall review scores doesn't include reviews written by users that activated the game through a key. (A way to fight review score manipulation.)

Over the past few months, we've been reading your feedback and reports on the Steam Customer Review System. In addition, we've been looking at the different ways customer reviews are being used on Steam and evaluating which aspects of the feature need the most improvement. In May of this year we made changes to highlight the recent reviews on games to better show the current state of quickly evolving products (read more about those changes here). Now we are releasing the next update, which adds more filtering and sorting options for the displayed reviews, and sets some new defaults to highlight the recent, helpful, and relevant reviews.

ReviewUpdateSept.jpg



New Filtering Options & Defaults

We know that you have your own preferences in what information is important when you consider making a purchase. So today's update adds some options at the top of each game’s review section where you can filter the reviews you see by language, purchase source, and whether the review is positive or negative. This will let you dig in to different aspects of a game's reviews to see what other people have to say about the game and a summary of how positive those reviews are.

With the introduction of these new tools, we're setting the default filters to provide the most useful snapshot of a product's reviews for you. By default, we'll show you a summary of helpful recent reviews written by Steam customers in languages you speak. (If you speak more than one language, you can configure your preferences here.)

We are also changing the default review score that we show at the top of each product page (and in search results) to not include reviews written by users that obtained the product through a Steam key. Here's why:


The Review Score

When we introduced the Steam Customer Review System in November 26, 2013, our primary goal was, and still is, to help customers make an informed decision when considering the purchase of a new game. To achieve that goal, we've put an emphasis on written reviews that encourage customers to share their experience in a game so that other's can decide for themselves whether the game sounds like something they would enjoy playing.

As the number of reviews on any particular product grew, it became difficult to get a sense of whether customers were generally happy or unhappy with how well the game met their expectations. To make it easier to tell whether customers overall would recommend purchasing the game, we created a review score. We've intentionally kept this score as transparent as possible, by simply calculating the percentage of positive reviews.

We know this review score has become a valuable shortcut for customers to gauge how well the game is matching customer expectations. But the review score has also become a point of fixation for many developers, to the point where some developers are willing to employ deceptive tactics to generate a more positive review score.

The majority of review score manipulation we're seeing by developers is through the process of giving out Steam keys to their game, which are then used to generate positive reviews. Some developers organize their own system using Steam keys on alternate accounts. Some organizations even offer paid services to write positive reviews.


How Steam Keys Impact Review Score

Steam keys have always been free for developers to give out or sell through other online or retail stores. That isn't changing. However, it is too easy for these keys to end up being used in ways that artificially inflate review scores.

An analysis of games across Steam shows that at least 160 titles have a substantially greater percentage of positive reviews by users that activated the product with a cd key, compared to customers that purchased the game directly on Steam. There are, of course, legitimate reasons why this could be true for a game: Some games have strong audiences off Steam, and some games have passionate early adopters or Kickstarter backers that are much more invested in the game.

But in many cases, the abuse is clear and obvious, such as duplicated and/or generated reviews in large batches, or reviews from accounts linked to the developer. In those cases, we've now taken action by banning the false reviews and will be ending business relationships with developers that continue violating our rules.

While helpful users in the community have been valuable in reporting instances of abuse, it's becoming increasingly difficult to detect when this is happening, which reviews from Steam Keys are legitimate, and which are artificially influenced.


Changes To The Review Score

As a result of this, we are making some changes to how review scores are calculated. As of today, the recent and overall review scores we show at the top of a product page will no longer include reviews written by customers that activated the game through a Steam product key.

Customers that received the game from a source outside of Steam (e.g. via a giveaway site, purchased from another digital or retail store, or received for testing purposes from the developer) will still be able to write a review of the game on Steam to share their experience. These reviews will still be visible on the store page, but they will no longer contribute to the score.

This does mean that the review score category shown for about 14% of games will change; some up and some down. Most changes in the review score category are a result of games being on the edge of review score cut-offs such as 69% positive or 70% positive. A change of 1% in these cases can mean the difference between a review score category of "Mixed" and "Positive". About 200 titles that only had one or two reviews will no longer have a score at all until a review is written by a customer that purchased that item via Steam. In all of these cases, the written reviews still exist and can easily be found in the review section on that store page.


Next Steps

We are aware that these changes do not address all of the feedback and suggestions presented by members of the Steam community. We are working to address these other issues, which mainly pertain to the helpfulness of reviews:
  1. There are some titles where the most helpful reviews don't seem to accurately match the general customer sentiment. For example, there are a couple of prominent titles that have review scores of 'positive' but all the reviews marked as helpful are negative. We need to look at this to figure out how to represent cases where the community has highly divergent opinions.
  2. There are some titles where a small group of users are able to consistently mark specific reviews as helpful, and as a result can present a skewed perception of what customers are saying about the game. This is obviously not ideal, so we're looking at ways to ensure that a few users don't have outsized influence over the system.
  3. Some off-topic reviews get marked as 'helpful' simply because they are funny. These don't appear to actually be helpful in determining whether you should buy the game, so we're working on some ways to better detect and filter out these
We know that Steam customer reviews can only be valuable in aiding you as long as you can trust the data we're presenting. The changes made today target the main abuse we're seeing, and give you more control over the information you see when evaluating a game.

As always, please let us know what you think.
 

Anthedon

Arcane
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Jan 1, 2015
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
More updates to the review system: http://store.steampowered.com/news/24155/
- Now overall review scores doesn't include reviews written by users that activated the game through a key. (A way to fight review score manipulation.)

That's fucking retarded. In 13 years of using it I've never bought a full price title directly from Steam. The legal alternatives (Amazon, GMG and whathaveyou) are usually considerably cheaper. Even the Steam sales have sucked in the last two or three years if you compare the discounts with what other sites have started offering.
 

Alienman

Retro-Fascist
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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Have to make that money, even if the game itself is consumer unfriendly as hell. Fucking Steam, just couldn't let this be could they. It was a perfect system to punish fraudulent developers.
 

DramaticPopcorn

Guest
Find better ways to redeem games via steam gift? Like bots or smth
 

tormund

Arcane
Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Messages
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Location
Penetrating the underrail
Steam is in 99 out of 100 cases most expensive way to acquire digital copy of newly released game, that is the reason why so many buy from other sites like GMG.

What this will do, among other things, is diminish potential impact of early negative reviews in those cases where people have preordered games from sites other than Steam (which is how massive number of users preordered latest Deus Ex, for example).
Actually I wouldn't be surprised if that was one of games that tipped the scale for valve, considering its size and absolutely massive amount of whining about its user review average.

Anyway, assorted devs and industry paladins will certainly celebrate this news.
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
Welll...Maybe it's not much difference to (pseudo-)AAA games

No Man's Sky
All (68,497): 35%
Steam Purchasers (67,448): 35%
Key Activations (1,049): 58%

Deus Ex: MD
All (8,985): 64%
Steam Purchasers (5,701): 63%
Key Activations (3,284): 65%

Fallout 4
All (72,827): 78%
Steam Purchasers (48,029): 77%
Key Activations (24,798): 80%

Dark Souls 3
All (26,791): 82%
Steam Purchasers (20,400): 81%
Key Activations (6,391): 85%

Dead Rising (released today)
All (169): 97%
Steam Purchasers (154): 96%
Key Activations (15): 100%
 

Konjad

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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Who cares anyway. If I don't know whether to buy something or not I decide based on the few rated most helpful reviews, because overall score is very susceptible to manipulation however it is set up. If you base it on a single 'overall rating' and not reviews you'll get burned one in both rating systems even if in a different way. Those OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE and 10/10 ratings on sites are always meaningless to me, whereas reviews provide me information whether it's my kind of game or not.
 

Alienman

Retro-Fascist
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Messages
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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
It's the whole thing of becoming a second rate citizen. You might have bought a key for Steam, but you didn't buy it ON Steam. So your opinion on the game doesn't matter and won't be counted. BS.
 

gaussgunner

Arcane
Joined
Jul 22, 2015
Messages
6,158
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ХУДШИЕ США
No Man's Sky
All (68,497): 35%
Steam Purchasers (67,448): 35%
Key Activations (1,049): 58%

What happened here? Dev gave away a bunch of keys to boost ratings at release, got it on the bestsellers list, then normal Steam users bought it and hated it? Doesn't matter whether the keys were for shills or legit diehard fans, it's exactly the kind of debacle Steam wants to avoid.

Dunno what that guy from Larian is worried about; D:OS is rated overwhelmingly positive with or without keys. Worried about newer indies getting frozen out maybe? I'm not convinced. Kickstarter backers are biased. Steam is right to try to exclude their reviews.

Konjad overall ratings also affect things like the sort order in searches and browsing. Not that that's a good way to find games but lots of idiots do it. Then they bitch about getting fooled, that's the problem.

Now if only they could figure out how to make the RPG category show actual RPGs... :lol:
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
Mighty No. 9

All (1,576): 52%
Steam Purchasers (904): 60%
Key Activations (672): 41%

'Thanks for silencing the backers!' :lol:
 

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