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Ultima The Ultima Underworld I & II Thread

Fowyr

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Drog strikes again.
I don't kid.
I made junk corner just left of portcullis guarded by goblin named Drog and threw bones and other worthless junk here. Now I have grey key floating in air above.
I even can get it using potion of Fly.
kdo6tf.jpg


Its description is just "it's a key".
 

Fowyr

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It's a key from Green (but not Gray) Goblins' treasury. And I think I already saw it once, can't remember. Last time I played it 8 years ago.
 

Fowyr

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Oh, apparently it's that infamous UUW inventory bug. I use unpatched version and just got lantern replaced with loaf of bread. Off to the lake, destroying all junk I go.
 

Unkillable Cat

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Yeah, don't pile too much stuff into one area either. I did that on my last playthrough and some items just disappeared when I dropped them.
 

Fowyr

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What things are buoyant? UUW says:
- magic map
- Rune bag
- gold
- oil
- Talismans, broken blade included
- magic wands and scepters
- dragon scales
- mundane Acrobat mantra book
- Potion of poison from Level 2 maze.
 
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Holy effing feces! Working my way through level 7 (I guess that's the mage punishment Unkillable Cat was talking about before) and bits of level 8, and this level is both awesome and tough as hell. Some of the previous levels were getting a bit stale compared to the really good ones before (like say the ghoul section or the mines on that level), but level 7 exemplifies everything that's great about UU. A gazellion hidden rooms and secret doors, tunnels twisting around each other like snakes at full density, hair-pulling obstacles everywhere, and more lava than Krakatoa. So yesterday, I was completely stuck on one part of it, having zero clue as to how to proceed. Today, despite being a warrior, finally leveled up some mage skills a bit (not for combat, but utility, as you just have way more ways to solve problems as a mage). Of course, level 7 is not the best place to do this, without spoiling anything, but I figured out some cute ways to bypass some of those restrictions:

Casting resist fire on level 6 or 8, then using a moonstone/gate scroll combo, or just stairs, depending on location. The level drains your mana, but doesn't dispel spell effects on you. This shit really helped me get around the level, cause otherwise as a warrior you can't go many places.

This allowed me to advance much farther than where I was stuck yesterday and discover many things, but guess what, now I am completely stuck in a different place on this level. :) Hopefully tomorrow will bring similar progress, as this playthrough I have not used any online guides/hints, so I am hoping to continue that.
 

Unkillable Cat

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I'm gonna give you one hint: Behind a secret door/passage on L7 you can find a graveyard. There are plenty of secret doors in the graveyard. I recommend finding them, as one of them leads to a moment you won't forget.
 

Fowyr

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PorkyThePaladin
How you got picture like that?
Just by using "look" at tombstones?
l4_siravirill.gif

I cant' see it in my floppy F1.50S. Probably it's rip. I had another version somewhere, need to check it.
 
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Doctor Sbaitso

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Just right clicking will give description of anything in the viewport. Don't you guys play with the intuitive iconless mouse mode? The one where you can look at, interact with, speak to, pickup/throw, drag/drop without selecting action icons.
 
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I'm gonna give you one hint: Behind a secret door/passage on L7 you can find a graveyard. There are plenty of secret doors in the graveyard. I recommend finding them, as one of them leads to a moment you won't forget.

Not reading this until I finish the game, like I said, wanna finish it without guides or hints. <puts hands around ears and yells la-la-la-la>

PorkyThePaladin
How you got picture like that?
Just by using "look" at tombstones?
l4_siravirill.gif

I cant' see it in my floppy F1.50S. Probably it's rip. I had another version somewhere, need to check it.

Yeah, I am using the gog version, and you just right click in default mode (all pictures in upper left off). You can also click on the eye, sometimes that gives more info, but the default mode works better all around.
 

Doctor Sbaitso

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Can you give an example of when using the eye gives different information than the catch-all mode? I didn't know that was the case.
 
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Can you give an example of when using the eye gives different information than the catch-all mode? I didn't know that was the case.

I didn't know that was the case either from the manual, and maybe usually it's not, but when I was in the Earth Golem/Thief Imp room on Level 8, clicking on the treasure on the floor with the eye by accident, it told me about a trap there and offered a chance to disarm it, whereas just default looking only told me about the item.
 

Fowyr

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Just right clicking will give description of anything in the viewport. Don't you guys play with the intuitive iconless mouse mode? The one where you can look at, interact with, speak to, pickup/throw, drag/drop without selecting action icons.
For me it's easier to press F2-F6, my fingers are already on WAD (and 1 2 3) keys. Plus in "manual" mode cursor have form of cross that is more handy to aim.
As for Warren:

If you know how to cast Sheet Lighting, then you've 'talked' to Warren. Game mechanics only permit you to speak to other critters, so in order to fake the conversation with the door, which is very clearly not a critter, they had him being close by and set to start a conversation with you when you interacted with the door.
Holy sheet! That's why I love Codex.

EDIT:
A little notes on Lore skill.
Lore 30 does not bring you 100% identify.
If you partially identified item (say "magical dagger"), you can try identify it again with higher skill.
If you really want to see what this thing is, save and reload until you identify it.
 
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Unkillable Cat

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Can you give an example of when using the eye gives different information than the catch-all mode? I didn't know that was the case.

Gravestones and the grating at the center of the Stygian Abyss give special images when clicked on with the eye. (These has been in the game since the beginning.)

As for specific pieces of text? Dunno, can't remember any.
 

Fowyr

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Ha, Fowyr's elite hax0r skills strike again!

My first thought was that it's rip, but both cs401.n01 (tombstones) and cs400.n01 (abyss window) were present and not empty.
Reason - when game was copied (probably from CD), "read only" attribute was not removed.
I remember, it really was the problem for some methods of opening file back in the day. File was opened for writing too, so it got exception.

Gravestones and the grating at the center of the Stygian Abyss give special images when clicked on with the eye.
You can make right mouse button click too.

Also I hax0red 40 charges for Fireball wand and destroy debris everywhere. Going from level 4 to 5 using stairs next to ghouls corrupt inventory and freeze game (after clicking on packs).
Interesting thing, drag&drop item in inventory and it will be in the end of player.dat.

EDIT2: When you cast Fireball around that poisonous area behind combination lock door on level 3, you get "many pricks" message without being poisoned.
 
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Well men, I am proud of myself in the way only older RPGs can make you, where progressing the game forward is actually an achievement and not just running from one journal checkpoint to the next, and pretending you are not some mindless errand boy. Yesterday, I have mastered level 7, which is probably the best one of the ones I have seen yet, without using any hints or guides, and I had to do this via a shit-ton of different but always interesting ways.

When I first entered it, I was able to quickly locate the lost medallion in the mines, and use it to get access to the goblin guarded areas in the west of the level. Eventually I worked my way to the prison, and got promptly locked up in it, even after bribing the guard generously (fucking gobs!) As I didn't have any keys for the prison doors, nor lockpicking skill, I proceeded to bash all the wooden ones down with my trusty Sword of Justice (the fortunately unbreakable Talisman), and speak with the prisoners, which not only got me a bunch of new quests, but an escape route out of the prison as well.

At that point though, I was completely stuck (the first time for the level). From the scrolls/notes I found on the level, I knew there was some maze to get to the wizard, and that there were shortcuts to it through the lava pit and the mines. But the lava pits had a door on the other side which I could not open, and despite raising my skill in Search to 30, and combing the mine walls for secret doors, I could not find it.

So as mentioned before, the way I got through that was by leveling up mana/casting skills and precasting Resist Fire prior to entering the level. Using this defense, I then walked along the lava river in the center of the level, and made my way to the locked door, which I opened with a key I found in the spider caves earlier. From there, I made my way to the Thief Imp and was able to find the Crown of Maze Navigation, even though I still had no clue where the actual maze was. I also worked my way further down the lava river, and found what looked like a green maze, but the crown didn't seem to show me any way through it, so I went back.

This is when I was stuck for the second time. Then at some point as I was looking over the map, a lightbulb went off as I saw what looked like a second bridge over the lava stream further down and high up, which was just barely revealed from my earlier explorations. So I went back to my storage space on level 3, and went through all the sacks and boxes there, finally finding a potion of flying. Went back, pre-applied resist fire (for those pesky fire elementals that shoot fireballs at you even in the air), gulped down the potion and went floating over the river. This finally allowed me to make my way to the maze, and the crown revealed the yellow road, just as the Imp said. The rest was fairly arbitrary, Tyball stands no chance against a melee warrior, and now I am going onwards for the Slasher of Veils.

But what's crazy is how much active thinking and effort went into "solving" this level. Using items (potions), using items in secondary ways (weapons for bashing doors), reading maps and hint notes, precasting spells to avoid restrictions, tons of active exploration, etc , etc. This is just so different from modern RPGs, it's essentially different genres.
 

Doctor Sbaitso

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Enjoying reading your virgin experiences Porky. Fired a save up to poke around a little and a couple hours melted away. I would pay Otherside good money for another game using this very engine and system.

This is what I see and read when using modeless right-click on the core grates.
Capture.png
 
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Enjoying reading your virgin experiences Porky. Fired a save up to poke around a little and a couple hours melted away. I would pay Otherside good money for another game using this very engine and system.

Might be better to use the Arx Fatalis engine in that case, I think it offers much of the same functionality as the UU one but with much better graphics and a modern interface.
 
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Arx is OK but it doesn't have the same feels.

I guess if you played it when it first came out. As someone who played UU and Arx years after they came out, and without any sentimental attachments to either, here's how I would compare them:

Arx advantages:

- Arx has the better backstory and atmosphere. The whole angle with the dying sun is awesome, although the game doesn't really develop it much in terms of writing.

- Arx also obviously has the better graphics and interface, having 10 years of advancements to fall back on.

- I also prefer the way Arx had more back and forth level visits. In UU, sometimes you go back to previous levels to find extra rooms/spaces, but not that much. In Arx, it was everywhere.

- The spell system in Arx was better in that you could cast offensive spells in melee range, thus making magic a valid way to go through the game/engage in combat. In UU, it seems to be more of a utility thing.

UU advantages:

- The original. Obviously at least 90% of what's in Arx was first created in UU, so the game deserves a LOT of credit for that.

- The puzzles are much better. Arx had some good puzzles, but many others were too obscure and/or frustrating to solve without a lot of hair-pulling trial-and-error and/or online look-up. In UU, on the other hand, I almost never felt frustrated, even when I was stuck multiple times, I just calmly thought about things, and most times common sense and logic allowed me to arrive at various potential solutions to try.
 

Doctor Sbaitso

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PorkyThePaladin there is no accounting for taste, so here is mine.

Backtracking isn't exactly an asset unless it ties in with narrative.

Until you reach Arx the atmosphere is pretty good in Arx Fatalis but it drops off beyond the goblins IMO. It was a faithful attempt to recreate the UU vibe by fans of the original. Naturally graphics were advanced in the 10 years since UU was released and mouse look and WASD was added but largely there is nothing that Arx does interface wise that UU did not 10 years earlier.

Level design is admirable in Arx but masterwork in UU. Same can be said for systems in UU which in most cases are deeper and simulated. See above for one small example regarding health.

The automap in UU to this day is unsurpassed.

Quest design in UU is head and shoulders above Arx IMO.

To me one of the most significant differentiators in favour of UU is how the story is not told to you. You discover it through organic world interaction. No scripted sequences, no telling us what our motivations should be. We peel the onion ourselves and in so doing I find the narrative and setting well beyond Arx.

Arx had fantastic sound design.

I have enjoyed Arx a few times now and I still remember how excited I was at release, hoping it would end the 10 year wait for a return to the UU vibe. Early I was loving it and I played right through, enjoying it quite a bit but in the end it was underwhelming. Around that time is when I adopted my opinion that graphics are maybe 20% of the experience.
 
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