The Omega Syndrome at v3.24

[denizsi]

As of January 6, 2007. It also costs another 10$ now.

News post: http://www.ausgamedev.com/news.html

 

[Azael]

Tried it and pretty quickly discarded it. Since the subject of death in CRPGs are on, I'll give my take. Permadeath is no fun if it means that you have to do the same fucking thing over and over again. Or if you're unable to avoid combat. Seems like suicide to create a character that's focused on anything else than combat and healing, at least for the "dungeon" in the demo. Better make him tough as well, since the worms pop up without warning right next to you and a get a freebie go at you. Forget about being able to rest in a level, even if you've cleared it, which forces you to go up the elevator and watch the same slides again and waste time since you can only use First Aid three times before you have to rest.

As much as I like some turnbased goodness, this game isn't my cuppa.

 

[OsirisGod]

i tried it to , looks decent but the combat is a bit wierd for me , restarted it over 10 times because diplomatic path didn't work on the guard at the door , and in combat he 2 hitted me a couple of times , btw i also can't get save/load to work in the demo .

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Just tried it and enjoyed it a lot. Character creation is basically the same as in Fallout which is good in my book, and the game is really fun to play. The auto-save feature that makes death quite "deadly" annoyed me at first, but during my second try I thought it was a good idea after all. My only complaint would be that killing worms gets old pretty fast, but since it's just the "starter dungeon" I guess worms are to Omega Syndrome what rats are to Fallout, namely an "in-game-turn-based-combat-tutorial". I'm seriously considering buying the game. :wink:

 

[obediah]

I played the demo a while back. $50 seems downright obscene.

 

[mirrorshades]

Demo is interesting, but way too combat-intensive. No real non-combat means to get through it (or at least I have not found any and, based on other posts about this game, most other folks haven't either).

So says their website:

The Hard RPG is intended for RPG gamers who are more interested in role playing, rather than dungeon crawling and power gaming. It is hoped these players will enjoy playing The Omega Syndrome multiple times, as they experiment with different player character types.

Unless the entire game is more non-combat friendly, it seems that you will end up power gaming just to survive combat.

In the Hard RPG you'll feel genuine tension each time you go into battle, search for traps, conduct a conversation, or attempt to disarm a trap. You'll be asking yourself, "Will this be my last move?"

You'll be asking yourself, "Will I really have to start this freaking game over *AGAIN*??"

Having given it some thought, this style of game doesn't, to me, make it more realistic. My guess is that combat is what will kill the player and erase the save games 99 times out of 100. Thus, if I have to keep starting over with a new character, I'm going to eventually make sure that I create a character who is tough enough to survive whichever battle keeps killing me. Even with a diplomat type character, if the end result of a failed skill check is the bad guy saying, "You are a liar. Let me show you what we do to liars in my country. [Pulls out his assault rifle.]"... then you're up the proverbial waterway.

If I have to play through again, it turns into a Nintendo game where I didn't defeat the level boss.

To make death an extremely realistic experience, they should design it so that when your player dies, the game gets deleted from your computer and you have to shell out another $50 to get it again. Now *that's* permanent.

 

[Jim Kata]

I agree - permadeath is only acceptable if your game is designed well to make it tolerable.

 

[pinoy6600]

I played the demo a while back. $50 seems downright obscene.

Correct! I'd rather spend my 50 bucks on a couple of shareware games. I think shareware games which costs more than 25 bucks are a rip-off!

 

[Davaris]

i tried it to , looks decent but the combat is a bit wierd for me , restarted it over 10 times because diplomatic path didn't work on the guard at the door , and in combat he 2 hitted me a couple of times , btw i also can't get save/load to work in the demo .

At the moment your charisma must be 5 or above, before the guard will escort you through the base.

Tried it and pretty quickly discarded it. Since the subject of death in CRPGs are on, I'll give my take. Permadeath is no fun if it means that you have to do the same fucking thing over and over again. Or if you're unable to avoid combat. Seems like suicide to create a character that's focused on anything else than combat and healing, at least for the "dungeon" in the demo. Better make him tough as well, since the worms pop up without warning right next to you and a get a freebie go at you. Forget about being able to rest in a level, even if you've cleared it, which forces you to go up the elevator and watch the same slides again and waste time since you can only use First Aid three times before you have to rest.

As much as I like some turnbased goodness, this game isn't my cuppa.

Yes this game isn't for everyone. I included the Hard RPG rule because I don't enjoy RPGs that let you force load your way through them. The load save safety net kills the tension (and fun) for me and I feel like I'm just going through the motions consuming content. I wanted something that makes me feel what I used to feel when I first started playing games.

I'll take another look at the worms and the first aid issues you mentioned.

I played the demo a while back. $50 seems downright obscene.

Correct! I'd rather spend my 50 bucks on a couple of shareware games. I think shareware games which costs more than 25 bucks are a rip-off!

I think shareware RPGs that charge less than $50 are a rip off for the developers.

If companies like Interplay (of old), Origin and Troika were able to charge more for their RPGs, they'd still be making them today and we'd have great AAA RPGs to play.

However as RPGs are the hardest and most expensive types of games to make, their audience is relatively small and people want to pay low prices, they were not profitable and the above companies went out of business. Now we are left with a situation where the AAA's devs ignore us (for cold hard business reasons) and are making dumbed down first person shooters (and calling them RPGs) that appeal to a massive low brow audience.

To put it in simple business terms: If a product is expensive to make and its audience is small, the only way a product can be made for that audience, is if they are willing to pay more for that product.

 

[Jim Kata]

Well, price is a matter of economics not morality. If you can sell 100 games at 50 dollars and 200 at 26 dollars then it makes sense to sell it at 26 dollars.

There is some optimal point there that is not easy to determine. But, I would think most people would expect to pay less for an independent game that does not come with a box than for a 'AAA' big name title.

If there is a very big demand for your game you might be right and your numbers may not go down as much as they would for a big name title that most people get 'just because' and usually does not have too many really hardcore fans. It is just a luxury item, though, so people are usually pretty inflexible on price. For 20 bucks it might look good but I can't imagine most people would pay 50 unless they think it's at the same quality level as the original fallout.

I also disagree that the price is the big factor in failures. Origin actually sold very well and so did sirtech and microprose and SSI. In all these cases the reasons for demise were nothing to do with sales whatsoever, yet idiotic companies like Interplay would point to these great shops and say that they were driven out of business by delivering th quality games without a big enough market when the truth is companies like Interplaya nd atari have had tremendous losses by pursuing these strategies.

So yeah, if I gave you a million dollars right now you might stay in business forever, but if you want to maximize your profits you might want to choose a lower pricepoint, especially since you are making your first game and each customer you get now might give you word of mouth that leads to more sales - and help drive up the demand for the game itself. Not to mention the next game, if you make another.

 

[Monolith]

Davaris, just out of curiosity, how many copies have you sold so far? If you want to keep the numbers a secret - have the sales exceeded your expectations or did you expect more?

I like the overall idea - adding tension and all that. But there are situations in your game where luck or coincidence are what determines an outcome. And I got killed because of that twice when playing the demo. I like the setting. I like the skillsystem. Story is decent enough (I don't know much about it). But it's frustrating as fuck, especially if it wasn't your fault - to a certain degree. I haven't tried the latest version though so I'll give it a shot just to look what has changed and if that guard is really as helpful as I hope he is .

BTW, why isn't the RPG Codex staff posting news about the game anymore?

 

[Davaris]

Davaris, just out of curiosity, how many copies have you sold so far? If you want to keep the numbers a secret - have the sales exceeded your expectations or did you expect more?

I won't say how many, but it has always been a poor seller, even when it was as cheap as chips and before it became a Hard RPG. The big difference with the addition of the Hard RPG rule, is the game is generating a lot more interest and discussion than it used to.

As an aside I've been told by rich devs (and read interviews of Spiderweb's) that you can only get reasonable sales if you make run of the mill fantasy RPGs. Because while players will always complain about wanting something different, they'll always spend their dollars on the same tired old retreads.

In the case of RPGs, if you make anything that isn't a stock standard sword and sorcery dungeon crawler, you'll get very poor sales. This makes sense when you look at the most successful companies of this type in the world, Blizzard, Bioware, Bethesda and the link to the massively multiplayer user charts I posted in another thread.

Unfortunately for my hip pocket, I have no patience for convention.

I like the overall idea - adding tension and all that. But there are situations in your game where luck or coincidence are what determines an outcome. And I got killed because of that twice when playing the demo. I like the setting. I like the skillsystem. Story is decent enough (I don't know much about it). But it's frustrating as fuck, especially if it wasn't your fault - to a certain degree. I haven't tried the latest version though so I'll give it a shot just to look what has changed and if that guard is really as helpful as I hope he is .

Yes I think it still needs a few tweaks to get it right. I saw a great non-leathal combat idea here and am thinking of how I can add it to OS's Hard RPG rules, without overly complicating them.

>BTW, why isn't the RPG Codex staff posting news about the game anymore?

I think they got sick of it as I've been updating it for years.

P.S.
You may be interested in learning that the last big update is coming in a month (new maps and a new type of monster) and then I'll be moving onto the next game.

 

[sheek]

I would buy the completed product for $20 ($30 if you improve it a lot), but no more. And I'm serious about that, $50 is asking too much.

 

[LCJr.]

>BTW, why isn't the RPG Codex staff posting news about the game anymore?

Seems the current staff is more interested in major games like Oblivion. And of course the boring shitstorm that will be FO3. There's been a few crackpot conspiracy theories that news of indie games is being suppressed to boost sales of another indie project :wink:

 

[Monolith]

I won't say how many, but it has always been a poor seller, even when it was as cheap as chips and before it became a Hard RPG. The big difference with the addition of the Hard RPG rule, is the game is generating a lot more interest and discussion than it used to.

As an aside I've been told by rich devs (and read interviews of Spiderweb's) that you can only get reasonable sales if you make run of the mill fantasy RPGs. Because while players will always complain about wanting something different, they'll always spend their dollars on the same tired old retreads.

In the case of RPGs, if you make anything that isn't a stock standard sword and sorcery dungeon crawler, you'll get very poor sales. This makes sense when you look at the most successful companies of this type in the world, Blizzard, Bioware, Bethesda and the link to the massively multiplayer user charts I posted in another thread.

Unfortunately for my hip pocket, I have no patience for convention.

Yes I think it still needs a few tweaks to get it right. I saw a great non-leathal combat idea here and am thinking of how I can add it to OS's Hard RPG rules, without overly complicating them.

Will the few tweaks be implemented in the next big update? And about the non-leathal combat idea, was it perhaps in my Death in RPGs thread? I wanted to answer your post but somehow I forgot about it. I'm going to do that soon...

I think they got sick of it as I've been updating it for years.

Lazy bastards.

P.S.
You may be interested in learning that the last big update is coming in a month (new maps and a new type of monster) and then I'll be moving onto the next game.

Next game? What will it be like? A stock standard sword and sorcery dungeon crawler?

 

[Veracity]

they should design it so that when your player dies, the game gets deleted from your computer

I think he already has, at least from a lot of people's point of view. I guess it amounts to a gamble on the increased attention permadeath has generated resulting in a corresponding sales boost to the people who like the idea, or at least object little enough that they'll put up with it.

I'd personally be perfectly happy paying $50+ for independent games, regardless of production values. Of course, that's just me, and Jim Kata already did the Economics for Dummies explanation of why a high price relative to most of the market may not be a great idea.

Why do people expect to pay so much less for independent games, though? Obviously, they have lower development budgets, but I think Davaris's point about niche audiences is fair - it sometimes seems a lot more people want non-mainstream games than are ready to pay a realistic price to make them viable. You could say that about almost anything that requires folks to part with cash, though, I suppose. Still, why is $50ish a bearable price tag on NWN2, but not Omega Syndrome?

 

[Jason]

BTW, why isn't the RPG Codex staff posting news about the game anymore?

Probably because posting about small incremental updates gets old and once you stop doing that it's easy to let the project slip beneath your radar. Besides, that sort of thing was always Saint's bag (like roguelike update newsposts).

Maybe one of the Codex kids should give it a review now that it has the new Hard RPG format. Personally, you couldn't pay me to play an RPG without a normal save system. I've got better things to do, like shaving my balls with a rusty spoon.

 

[Fez]

Try using an axe instead. From what I've heard it works so good you'll never need to worry about it again.

 

[Jason]

I would, but the ladies (i.e. Blackhart & friends) like to fondle my balls during the act of love.

 

[pinoy6600]

I played the Omega Syndrome demo again, and I just can't get into the whole perma death thing. Further, while the basic RPG engine takes a lot from Fallout, the attraction just isn't there for me.

Is there really more to the game then just mucking around the Army base? I would really like to know.

Anyway, I am an impulsive shareware buyer. I've bought a lot of games based on impulse but to plop down 50 bucks for a shareware game seems very expensive. Right now its a toss up on what I should buy between Minions of Mirth (cheaper by the way than OS) and Avernum 4 (also cheaper than OS).

 

[Davaris]

Sorry I didn't reply sooner. I went down to the coast for a week and there was no phone down there.

Will the few tweaks be implemented in the next big update? And about the non-leathal combat idea, was it perhaps in my Death in RPGs thread? I wanted to answer your post but somehow I forgot about it. I'm going to do that soon...

Yes that was the thread. I will be looking at including the rule in the next update, but I can't make any promises (as I'm not sure how I'm going to implement it yet). If it does not make that update, it will be included in a later engine update, because I will be using those rules in my next game. I'll make a special announcement when it goes in and ask for feedback.

Next game? What will it be like? A stock standard sword and sorcery dungeon crawler?

I've teamed up with an author named Stephen North and we're still in the early design phase. So all I can really say is the idea was inspired by Flash Gordon and EC Comics' Weird Science. So expect retro style sci-fi; ray guns, swords, space ships and several different races including humans. It will use the same engine and rules as The Omega Syndrome, because those rules can be used in any setting and the working title for the game is Devil's Gate.

Anyway, I am an impulsive shareware buyer. I've bought a lot of games based on impulse but to plop down 50 bucks for a shareware game seems very expensive.

All I can say is The Omega Syndrome (and my next game) was made for players from a particular age group, who like a particualr type of RPG and they will know it when they see it. If price is a major factor, then you should buy the cheaper games.

 

[Jim Kata]

Sorry I didn't reply sooner. I went down to the coast for a week and there was no phone down there.

Will the few tweaks be implemented in the next big update? And about the non-leathal combat idea, was it perhaps in my Death in RPGs thread? I wanted to answer your post but somehow I forgot about it. I'm going to do that soon...

Yes that was the thread. I will be looking at including the rule in the next update, but I can't make any promises (as I'm not sure how I'm going to implement it yet). If it does not make that update, it will be included in a later engine update, because I will be using those rules in my next game. I'll make a special announcement when it goes in and ask for feedback.

Next game? What will it be like? A stock standard sword and sorcery dungeon crawler?

I've teamed up with an author named Stephen North and we're still in the early design phase. So all I can really say is the idea was inspired by Flash Gordon and EC Comics' Weird Science. So expect retro style sci-fi; ray guns, swords, space ships and several different races including humans. It will use the same engine and rules as The Omega Syndrome, because those rules can be used in any setting and the working title for the game is Devil's Gate.

Anyway, I am an impulsive shareware buyer. I've bought a lot of games based on impulse but to plop down 50 bucks for a shareware game seems very expensive.

All I can say is The Omega Syndrome (and my next game) was made for players from a particular age group, who like a particualr type of RPG and they will know it when they see it. If price is a major factor, then you should buy the cheaper games.

I have been planning to buy OS since the demo but I like to play a game once it's complete when it comes to RPGs. If you take permadeath out or make it toggleable I will still buy. Same with new game. I saw a lot of potential there.

 

[aries202]

I once tried this game, and while it looked OK, wll, it didn't quite interest me.

I understand what Davaris is aying about permadeath. However, if a person (such as myself) has spent a lot of time, building a character, then it is not very good good to have that character permanently deleted.

This means you have to start over again...creating a character and stuff. This really, relly gets boring real fast. It also means that you have to trod the same all areas again. Also very boring.

I know that Davaris doesn't like the idea of 'just save before you fight' stuff, but I do think, the game still could be quite interesting, if the character say lost a level or some ability points when he died, and then had the option to
start from where he died.