Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[Turjan]

Even in that context it's atrocious. Wizardry 8 had far less bugs, better art style, better mechanics - better everything.

It still beats Wizardry 9... just to keep the comparison straight.

 

[Dorateen]

Tim Lang has been in the game industry for over 16 years. He is most well known for his time spent as a Game Designer for New World Computing, and as the Lead Designer of Might and Magic IX.

Lead Designer of M&M IX? If that isn't a recommendation...

Is MMIX really THAT terrible? I am aware of its abysmal reputation but would love to read a Codexian review by someone who has actually played it. My knowledge of the game so far is limited to this review, which says that the game isn't all that bad. Also, the GoG version seems to come with a fan-patch applied by default so.. it can't be that bad.. can it?

It's the weakest of the series, no question, and graphics are ugly. But that shouldn't really matter. We can acknowledge 2D is superior to 3D and move on. If you enjoy party based dungeon crawling, world exploration and similar combat mechanics (ranged weapons in real time, melee in turn based) of 6 - 7, it should be playable enough. I always compare the Writ of Fate in context of what the cRPG landscape looked at that time and the direction things were headed.

Even in that context it's atrocious. Wizardry 8 had far less bugs, better art style, better mechanics - better everything.

I'm not comparing it to Wizardry 8. That wasn't the direction where RPGs were heading. Wizardry 8 was the culmination of a saga, one of the last gasps of first-person dungeon crawlers, and the swan song of a glorious franchise (until Grimoire!). What I'm saying is that I would take Might & Magic IX over any contemporary bioware game, easily.

 

[Broseph]

I wouldn't; at least contemporary Bioware games weren't released in a pre-alpha state.

 

[Luzur]

Tim Lang has been in the game industry for over 16 years. He is most well known for his time spent as a Game Designer for New World Computing, and as the Lead Designer of Might and Magic IX.

Lead Designer of M&M IX? If that isn't a recommendation...

Is MMIX really THAT terrible? I am aware of its abysmal reputation but would love to read a Codexian review by someone who has actually played it. My knowledge of the game so far is limited to this review, which says that the game isn't all that bad. Also, the GoG version seems to come with a fan-patch applied by default so.. it can't be that bad.. can it?

It's the weakest of the series, no question, and graphics are ugly. But that shouldn't really matter. We can acknowledge 2D is superior to 3D and move on. If you enjoy party based dungeon crawling, world exploration and similar combat mechanics (ranged weapons in real time, melee in turn based) of 6 - 7, it should be playable enough. I always compare the Writ of Fate in context of what the cRPG landscape looked at that time and the direction things were headed.

it is playable though, i finished it unpatched and didnt encounter so many bugs actually, just a couple of enemies stuck in walls and a door that i couldnt open.

 

[Luzur]

found this on the Heroes Round Table forums:

Hey, everyone! My dream is to become the greatest game designer in the world, I am Orvald Maxwell, and here is my first game in-progress . Its heavily based on MM7, so if you liked the original, you might be interested in this one too. I'll be sharing my ideas and screenshots, and hope to get feedback, advices and curses.

So far, I have completely re-created MM7 engine using Unity3D , you may see some small test-gameplay footage in the video below:

http://youtu.be/y0vTdfkjTA4

And here are some screenshots from the game:







Engine still needs some work and bugfixes, but generally I am very satisfied with the results, as it is very stable, flexible and uber fast. So, after I have this solid fundament, my pre-production stage is over, and its time to rock!

--- Is is going to be MM7 clone? ---

I'll be very conservative about MM7, keeping as much as possible from the original series, but all my efforts are going to be focused on what is really important for the game: level design and enemy AI.

Basically, I want to add limited amount of very important features, which will make original mm7 formula much more exciting and not so dated. Modern "hardcore" dungeon crawlers all are nothing but a huge step back, unfortunately.

I'd like to keep the most imporant part - MM7 core - but I don't think anyone can explain, what that 'core' really is. Its something that genius of 3DO team assembled, and this happens only once in a lifetime. All I know for sure is that 'mm7 core' has something to do with very smooth difficulty progression which complements fantasy exploration. This makes even more sense, when you memorize all MM7 data tables. So I'll keep it in mind all the time.

-- Platforms --
I'm developing game for Android/iOS/PC Oculus Rift; Not that I am big fine of mobiles, but MM7 controls really suits it well. The real reason: funds. I've spent all my saving on assets already, I have zero-to-none chance making PC game look good, while for mobile platforms I'll keep AAA+++ look and performance, I am pro at this. Also, I've tried it with Oculus Rift, and the experience was awesome. So I want to have it in there, with re-mastered controls and GUI for Rift exclusively, even if graphically game will stay behind any modern PC standards (or not, as I can see Unity 5 is promising us drag-and-drop realtime GI for mobile);


--- Quests --
Someone needs to stop this madness of fetch quests and grinding inside RPG genre, and I'll make few steps forward. I am introducing dynamic quest system: game will have several sub-stories advancing in time. The main idea is:

1. Every quest has indirect reward.
2. Every quest influences game world physically.
3. All quests are important for the storyline.

There is a lot more to this system, but I'll save explanations for later, once I have it partially working.


-- Castle Building --

That good old Harmondale! Your castle plays central role in the game now. During whole gameplay, you will gradually improve castle, its defences, place new weapons and fortifications, gather army and allies.

If you decide to learn more about game's lore from its wikipedia, castle will make even more sense to you. And to be totally honest: MM7 beats MM6 for me only because I had that Harmodnale, lol.

-- Story --

Game takes place in the Dream World, on the Ideal Country layer, and player takes role of a 4 holy deties - the Guides.

I have developed the story for more then 5 years. Never had any chance to use it in any game, so that is why it improved for so long, and became capable of carrying fantasy RPG solo mid.

Game will feature 4 different endings, one of those being 'true ending'. I am personally a huge fan of 'True Endings', likely, from the time I've played Valkyrie Profile:Lenneth; True Ending is for those whom can perceive well, understand what's really going on, invest time in correct and clever character development, and true ending is going to be very rewarding in terms of production value. That is how it should be in every RPG.

I have some kind of wikipedia, if you are interested in game's lore, but it is short on info at the moment: http://hcompgames.com/ryumaster/test/home.html

-- Soul Quants --
Yah, its kind of a new currency. Your mana points are recharged from its pool , and every save game uses SQ as well. If SQ reaches zero, its game over. So you will need to catch some twisted humans from time to time and imprison them, in order to draw SQ. Soul Qunants are essential not only for the story, but for the game mechanics too. They will serve fighting cheap hacks, fighting save game abusement, and will force to have good mana and spell management in overall.

-- Astral Prison --

In order to stay alive, you need to draw Soul Quants from the humans. So you capture them, keep them in the prison, and torture (mentally). When they are harmless, you can release them back from the Dream World (let them awake), or consume their soul.

I'm not sure yet, how will this torturing mini-game look like, I was thinking about system like Ar Tonelico, but then again I don't want to make something too distracting from the original experience.

-- True Bossfights --

Same will apply to all enemies, but on the bosses it will have the greatest impact ever: use strategy; Modern games goes cheap, to fight boss you either learn his attack pattern, or weak spots, adapt and kill. I will go the other way around: in order to win, you need to make boss play the way you want. As I mentioned, I am putting lots of efforts into AI, simplistic, but efficient enough to use the environment I'm preparing around the bosses. Learning attack patterns would not be enough to secure the victory anymore, to kill OP boss, you will actually need to make lots of preparations and gather the intel. Its easier to show then explain, hopefully I'll compile the 1st boss demo soon.

-- No small talks --
I'm tired of pointless blocks of text in RPGs. It was cool 15 years ago, but now I just can see through how some 5$/h folk writes this fantasy stuff without even caring. It sucks. Every piece of information and dialog in my game is going to be important, connected to some quests or events or hints, I am making all the text worth reading through, especially for those who seeks true ending. It cuts huge amount of text, but on the good side, its not the amount which makes it worth reading (unleast we are talking about Planescape: Torment where every glyph was a pleasure to absorb);

-- Monsters, Spells, Weapons --
Now then, the spells in MM7 are completely off. But not because spells are bad, they are superb, but because they are mostly useless 99% of time. Here I will re-make all the monsters, and build them around the spells and skills, in order to utilize every single spell and combat tactic possible. As I mentioned, the level design and monster design is the most crucial part in improving this game. And dozens of game designers will fail here, as this task is hard, but Orvald Maxwell knows how to handle it flawlessly I will never use monster in any other location that it is designed for.

On a side note: if you ever want to peek on the flawless execution of level design, go and play Dark Souls 1, and then play Dark Souls 2 to understand even more, how awesome DS1 really was.

Thank you for your reading through all this. While working on the game, its always important to have some communication for not to feel desperate, so feel free to drop any comment

 

[TigerKnee]

Inspiration from... Ar Tonelico.

My favourite line from the pitch

Now then, the spells in MM7 are completely off. But not because spells are bad, they are superb, but because they are mostly useless 99% of time.

This seems kind of contradictory.

 

[Alex]

I think his point is that the spells themselves are good ideas, but the game doesn't create interesting situations for you to use them.

 

[Humppaleka]

Decided after consulting several fansites and "walkthroughs" that my time is better spent elsewhere than playing the DOS version of Might & Magic I. Spent a good ten hours on it, but I'm just going to move on to Gates to Another World. I could play the DOS version (yes yes decline and all that) of Secret of the Inner Sanctum at some point.

 

[Charles-cgr]

Decided after consulting several fansites and "walkthroughs" that my time is better spent elsewhere than playing the DOS version of Might & Magic I. Spent a good ten hours on it, but I'm just going to move on to Gates to Another World. I could play the DOS version (yes yes decline and all that) of Secret of the Inner Sanctum at some point.

Did you mean you could play NES version at some point? What turned you off? It can't be the graphics/controls or you probably would have quit well before 10 hours.

 

[Broseph]

One of these days I'm going to man up and play I and II, even if I have to use maps from the Internet. I want to finish this whole series (even IX).

 

[Diggfinger]

One of these days I'm going to man up and play I and II, even if I have to use maps from the Internet. I want to finish this whole series (even IX).

IX is an awesome game, I enjoyed playing it a lot! IMO its better than 8, although of course not as good as 6 or 7.

totally underrated…even in its unfinished state its highly playable.

 

[cvv]

One of these days I'm going to man up and play I and II, even if I have to use maps from the Internet. I want to finish this whole series (even IX).

IX is an awesome game, I enjoyed playing it a lot! IMO its better than 8, although of course not as good as 6 or 7.

totally underrated…even in its unfinished state its highly playable.

You're new here so listen, for shit like that you have to add this .

Otherwise you get all sorts of tags.

 

[Baron Dupek]

Correct - use that emoticon OR put some GOOD arguments for your opinon. Better they're be stronk or u got present.

 

[Humppaleka]

Ah yes of course I meant NES version. It was the feeling that the first game was mostly a test, and reading this thread for example confirms what I was thinking: that the second game is already leaps and bounds better.
I'm not one for abandoning games but I don't want to waste my time either I guess.

 

[Broseph]

Actually, Deuce Traveler and Sceptic prefer the first game to the second.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Actually, Deuce Traveler and Sceptic prefer the first game to the second.

Yes I do. Technically, MM2 has quite a few improvements over the first game, but the increased goofiness and that lazy ass dungeon design during the finale pisses me off.

And Broseph , you do need to play MM1 and MM2. In my opinion they are the best of the series due to the challenge and thought the game demands of you during combat encounters. Graphics are nearly non-existent, but I did have to pay closer attention to what I was doing throughout those games.

 

[Humppaleka]

Blast it, you have me convinced. I will play through M&M I even if it'll take me a year (or propably more).

 

[Abelian]

Blast it, you have me convinced. I will play through M&M I even if it'll take me a year (or propably more).

If you're going to play the DOS version (available from GOG.com), you can donwload the trainer in my signature link in your MM1 directory.

The problem with MM1 is that you're pretty much forced to use the default party since it's hard to randomly generate characters with decent stats, and on top of it, custom parties start off with zero gold, limited food supplies, and armed with clubs, making the first few encounters very difficult (resurrection is expensive and you have zero gold). Also, you can import your party to MM2, the only time in the series you're allowed to do that (except MM 4&5, which are basically the same game).

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Or you can do what I did and spam reroll during your favorite anime series until you get stats you like. Then name all six characters after the sexiest girls you ever got to bed, and enjoy as your fantasy girl power team works together to save an alien world. Who needs graphics when you can just use your imagination.

 

[SuicideBunny]

Who needs graphics when you can just use your imagination.

notepad confirmed for codexian rpg #1.

 

[Broseph]

Or you can do what I did and spam reroll during your favorite anime series until you get stats you like. Then name all six characters after the sexiest girls you ever got to bed, and enjoy as your fantasy girl power team works together to save an alien world. Who needs graphics when you can just use your imagination.

How long did it take you to finish Might and Magic I, in terms of hours played? Is it a long grind?

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Easily more than 40 hours. Maybe closer to 60-80, but that was with me hitting most points on the map by crisscrossing back and forth.

 

[Luzur]

Blast it, you have me convinced. I will play through M&M I even if it'll take me a year (or propably more).

you do love your family, right?

and i think i played MM1 for around one and a half month, almost every day after school.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Alright guise, if I remember right, I played a bit of I and VI-IX a couple of years back, but didn't finish them (no surprise here).
I'll pretend I never played those, just Heroes and Crusaders. If I want to get acquainted with the original series, which game would you recommend me to play first?

Spoiler

Right now MM6 looks like the best bet to me.

 

[Luzur]

Alright guise, if I remember right, I played a bit of I and VI-IX a couple of years back, but didn't finish them (no surprise here).
I'll pretend I never played those, just Heroes and Crusaders. If I want to get acquainted with the original series, which game would you recommend me to play first?

Spoiler

Right now MM6 looks like the best bet to me.

MM3 and forward.