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The Master of Magic Thread

Absalom

Guest
DOS version. The Amiga version was not good; I don't think it has any better graphics, but the worst part was that the world building was not random. Using the same parameters always produced the same world.

This is how the games look like on my system:

W0RqXpD.jpg


xp02702.jpg
I see your point, though I would always prefer MoM graphically
 

octavius

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Anyone have any experience and opinions of the "Catnip" mod?

Also, does the patches, both official and kyrub's unoffical one, get reflected in-game when you right click on units, spells etc?

There is such a bewildering array of options, and the documentation so scattered (rule book, Read Me's for patches) that I think I'll just have to play the default wizards to learn the game, before I create any custom ones. Age of Wonders seemed simple in comparison first time I played it, and when reading the MoM manual I actually got an urge (I made the Willpower check) to play Age of Wonders again. :roll:
 

TigerKnee

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Feb 24, 2012
Messages
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Last time I checked, Catnip mod is extremely uncompleted so I didn't try it. I can't imagine having only half (probably too optimistic) of your changes implemented makes something that isn't a mess.

I thought Kyrub's patch was simply bug fixes and AI tweaks, not balance changes. Which means I don't see why it would be reflected in in-game help.
 

Trash

Pointing and laughing.
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About 8 meters beneath sea level.
Kyrub's patch went a little beyond bug fixing with some minor additions (mostly starter options) but nothing that would need to be reflected in in-game help.
 

octavius

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Just started my first game as Merlin and his High Men.
Things seem to take much longer to accomplish than in Age of Wonders. In AoW you could use your starting units to conquer or beat up something, but in MoM everything is (judging by unit stats) much better defended, and things take longer to build.
 

TigerKnee

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Feb 24, 2012
Messages
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High Men (hee hee) are a pretty late game race and Merlin doesn't have anything to help early conquest. Except maybe Heroism if you picked it as a starting spell.

You can certainly beat stuff up early with races like Klackon/Gnolls/Lizardman (although these guys don't have any long term future if they don't get a god start), to a lesser extent races like Nomads with some good mid-tier units and retorts like Warlord/Alchemy.
 

gunman

Arcane
Developer
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Messages
1,050
Awesome game, I recently acquired it from gog. A question about the score. While I have no problem beating the game on normal (high human paladins crush everything), my scores seem to hit a ceiling around 24%. I know how it is calculated, but is it possible to get a higher score (except playing on higher difficulties)? If I go directly to enemy capitals for a fast victory, I have too little score for the other requirements (population, fame, spells). If I try to build score on these, then the time it takes will also work against the score, as you lose 2 points per turn.
 

baturinsky

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Russia
TigerKnee
My favorite races are halflings and dwarves. Halfling slingers are op from the start, while dwarves start to shine a bit later, when you get adamantium weapons, enchanted roads and a lot o gold(=mana)
And of cause, alchemist+warlord+White.
Speaking of White, Guardian Spirit is pretty strong when buffed and can kill things for you by itself.

gunman
If you want to get to 100%, only option is to play Insane. It has x3 score multiplier. And also gives you a lot of high-fame targets.
 

Zeus

Cipher
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Messages
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Yeah, with all due respect, playing High Men in a game as crazy as Master of Magic is a little like playing an "all military, no magic" game.

Halflings and Dwarves, heck even Elves are more interesting humanlike races. And even better, go all out and play something really out there like Klackons.

The funny thing is, you'd think a race of giant insect people would be challenging, but they're actually one of the friendliest races for newbies. Rush aquatic beetle death squads and enjoy. :D

Edit: Spelling.
 

TigerKnee

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Feb 24, 2012
Messages
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Halflings are definitely one of the top tier races in the game... but...

Without Kyrub's patch, Halflings, or more specifically, the Lucky trait is bugged to provide huge defensive bonuses: An additional +1 to shields and -1 To Hit of the enemy in additional to what Lucky does inherently.

I never played Halflings after that bug was fixed, so I don't know if that drops their ranking, but I'm surprised the bug lasted for so long.

Yeah, with all due respect, playing High Men in a game as crazy as Master of Magic is a little like playing an "all military, no magic" game.

Halflings and Dwarves, heck even Elves are more interesting humanlike races. And even better, go all out and play something really out there like Klackons.
Eh, I disagree. The boring race in MoM are strangely enough, the Orcs. High Men differentiate themselves enough from other races by being a "Late Game" race in Strategy Games terms.

The only time the game becomes "All military, no magic" is if you intentionally make it that way with some kind of perk build that takes no magic build at all. Considering how terrible half of the summoned units are in this game, you're ironically going to love to use "mundane" units in MoM.
 

Alex

Arcane
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Jun 14, 2007
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Location
São Paulo - Brasil
Brother None One would think you would be a little more delicate with this kind of thing. I mean, Fallout 3 wasn't that long ago, and God knows when Fallout 4 might be coming...

Edit: Oh wait, that isn't Brother None. Sorry!
 
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CrimsonAngel

Prophet
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
2,258
Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I like this game, but man is it slow to get going. Well hopefully the new spiritual successor is worth having when it comes out. There are some Quality of life things the game could use and then i would be happy enough
 

Smashing Axe

Arcane
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Divinity: Original Sin
Anyone else find the spell 'cracks call' overpowered? If you have 'web' as well, the only thing immune to it as a 50% death spell is incorporeal creatures.

I like this game, but man is it slow to get going. Well hopefully the new spiritual successor is worth having when it comes out. There are some Quality of life things the game could use and then i would be happy enough
Which spiritual successor is this?
 

CrimsonAngel

Prophet
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Oct 2, 2007
Messages
2,258
Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Anyone else find the spell 'cracks call' overpowered? If you have 'web' as well, the only thing immune to it as a 50% death spell is incorporeal creatures.

I like this game, but man is it slow to get going. Well hopefully the new spiritual successor is worth having when it comes out. There are some Quality of life things the game could use and then i would be happy enough
Which spiritual successor is this?

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/304725524/worlds-of-magic-a-new-classic-4x-fantasy-game

World of Magic
 

Zeus

Cipher
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Apr 25, 2008
Messages
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Yeah, with all due respect, playing High Men in a game as crazy as Master of Magic is a little like playing an "all military, no magic" game.

Halflings and Dwarves, heck even Elves are more interesting humanlike races. And even better, go all out and play something really out there like Klackons.
Eh, I disagree. The boring race in MoM are strangely enough, the Orcs. High Men differentiate themselves enough from other races by being a "Late Game" race in Strategy Games terms.

Well. Keep in mind, I was talking to a guy who's playing his first game and complaining that things are taking too long to accomplish. That's why I suggested Klackons, who have a really strong early game and are easy for new players to get a handle on.

High Men have a great late game, but first you have to get through the somewhat mundane early game, and they're thematically a lot less interesting than most of the other races out there (obviously). It's also a lot easier to appreciate all that High Men can achieve after playing a few games with races who can't build as much. If you start with High Men, everyone else is going to seem kind of retarded. Which isn't really fair to the poor, poor Gnolls. :D

And while on the subject of good builds for new players: I suggest Nature & Chaos (Green/Red) spellbooks. Green has good permanent summons, like Bears, summons with neat abilities (Web), and my personal favorite spell, Nature's Eye, which will help you find nearby places to explore.

Red has direct damage, good for finishing off long range troops. More importantly, it has elementals, which trains you to use MoM's rather unique in-battle summons. (Forgot to properly defend your hometown? No problem. FIRE ELEMENTAL!)

Plus, Green and Red both have a hell of a lot of good troop enchantments. Stone Skin, etc. Taking some little swordsman and Giant Growthing him to success is a real treat.
 

Zeus

Cipher
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Just out of curiosity, would anyone be interested in me writing a Master of Magic Quick Start Guide?
 

gunman

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Developer
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Jan 4, 2008
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Well. Keep in mind, I was talking to a guy who's playing his first game and complaining that things are taking too long to accomplish. That's why I suggested Klackons, who have a really strong early game and are easy for new players to get a handle on.

If you are referring to me, please read again what I asked. It's no problem for me to win the game fast with humans. Once you gain access to paladins it's game over. Just send them straight to enemy capitols and eliminate the wizards. I have asked for ways to improve the score, if it is possible, on normal or hard. What is the maximum score possible to achieved on normal/hard?

And a tip for those using the gog version. Change in dosboxMOM.conf aspect to false and scaler to normal3x. It looks much better (at least in my case).
 

TigerKnee

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Feb 24, 2012
Messages
1,920
Klackons are really bad. I think it's hilarious that their production and unrest bonus is basically countered by the fact that their military units take like 2x as much to produce (and they aren't exactly 2x as strong to warrant that increase in cost).

Most of the low-tech, early game rush races are pretty bad, but seriously, Gnolls and Lizardmen are much better choices (the former for better unrest since you're going to be enslaving other races, the latter to prevent silly "Shit, I'm land-locked with no targets! Time to restart the game" situations).

Not that I would suggest newbies to play rush races, for some reason newbies to strategy games tend to be rather passive and love teching, rather than rushing.

If someone wanted a race that started out really fast compared to High Men, I would go for Halflings... on the other hand, those guys are just fraggin overpowered and probably the best race in the game, so it always seems odd to compare other races to it. It's like trying to compare races in MOO and having the Humans and Psilons around completely skewing the scales.
 

Zeus

Cipher
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Apr 25, 2008
Messages
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Well. Keep in mind, I was talking to a guy who's playing his first game and complaining that things are taking too long to accomplish. That's why I suggested Klackons, who have a really strong early game and are easy for new players to get a handle on.

If you are referring to me, please read again what I asked. It's no problem for me to win the game fast with humans.

No, I was referring to this guy:

Just started my first game as Merlin and his High Men.
Things seem to take much longer to accomplish than in Age of Wonders. In AoW you could use your starting units to conquer or beat up something, but in MoM everything is (judging by unit stats) much better defended, and things take longer to build.

Which is why I suggested Klackons. If you're just starting out and want to kick some butt, Klackons are pretty good. Rush Stag Beetle and enjoy the early game. Then next game, try for something a little more complex.
 
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gunman

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
1,050
Just finished a game on hard playing with dwarfs. In the end (year 1426) I had 17 cities, 147 fame, researched all spells except Spell of Mastery, and the final score is only 2169 (27%). WTF?
 

Smashing Axe

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Divinity: Original Sin
Final score is affected by difficulty level. You need impossible to ever approach 100%
 

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