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The Errant Signal Thread

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
The PC golden age was between 1984 and 1993. I'd call the Doom era the "silver age".

I mean, fucking newfags, you should know this.

Yeah, I was thinking of that when I posted, actually. But I have seen other people here refer to the late 90's-early 2000's as the Golden Age, so...
 

Destroid

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A lot of us are too young to have done serious gaming between 84 and 93, for us the late 90s is the golden age.

EDIT: Perhaps it depends on your genre of choice too? The late 90s were fantastic for FPS and RTS.
 

Oriebam

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KRELLEN said:
So?

Does everything created have to be unique and original? Do you know how little entertainment there would be if it did?
:thumbsup:
 

Unkillable Cat

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The PC golden age was between 1984 and 1993. I'd call the Doom era the "silver age".

I mean, fucking newfags, you should know this.

While I don't disagree on the end of the Golden Age (To be precise, I'd put the end of it on December 10th, 1993 :smug: ) according to your opinion, I do raise serious objection about the start of it.

Keep in mind that PC gaming, up until the very late 1980s... was shit. It was a joke, an afterthought. It was a platform that 'maybe' got conversions of titles originally released on other platforms. The number of PC exclusive titles in the 80s was laughably low, with the original King's Quest being the most obvious exception. Other titles I recall that were PC-exclusive are Digger and Flightmare.

Games were still being coded in CGA (4 colours!) graphics in 1987, 3 years after the EGA (16 colours!!) standard was introduced. The PC Speaker is infamous for the horrible noises it made, even in the 1990s.

I'd say the Golden Age of PC gaming started in 1990, 1989 at the very earliest. Anything before that is best described as the Ancient Times.

Sceptic said:
Also, I'd say Garriott had already shown you could become rich with computer games waaaaaay back; granted he came from a pretty wealthy family to begin with, but unlike others later on who made their money by selling the company, Origin allowed Garriott quite a few eccentricities even before that.

Garriott started turning a profit on his games on other platforms than the PC. I'm talking about the PC market exclusively.

Sceptic said:
the vast majority of the me-toos were shovelware. Go have a look at all the FPS released between Doom and Quake; aside from the ones done by Raven (which were produced by id anyway), Apogee, or Dark Forces, just about EVERYTHING else was pure crap. For every ROTT there were dozens of Fortress of Dr Radiaki, Operation Body Count and Isle of the Dead. Even the ones with potential like Witchaven were generally ruined by laughably bad QA.

You may be right on this. My memory could be shorting out here on subsequent titles and their development environments, but you're definetely right on there being a horrendous amount of crap FPS games being released between Doom and Quake.
 

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Yes, the fact that the PC was not the dominant gaming platform in the mid-80's is something that often seems like it's been flushed down the memory hole.
 

Sceptic

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Games were still being coded in CGA (4 colours!) graphics in 1987, 3 years after the EGA (16 colours!!) standard was introduced. The PC Speaker is infamous for the horrible noises it made, even in the 1990s.
I agree with your idea about the PC being a shite platform until maybe 1987, but I disagree with all the specific examples you gave. I can't think of many CGA games in 87, and while it's true it took more than it should have for EGA to really kick off pretty much all the games of note (except maybe Wizardry) were on EGA by then. COMPLETELY disagree about sound though; the MT-32 came out in 1988 and offered better sound than any other platform could dream of, and by 1990 Adlib's OPL was pretty much standard. Then when Wing Commander II came out everyone rushed to buy a Sound Blaster, and those who could afford to hooked it up to the also just-released Sound Canvas. Sure, not everyone could afford a Roland, but the Adlib and SB were pretty cheap.

I'd say the Golden Age of PC gaming started in 1990, 1989 at the very earliest. Anything before that is best described as the Ancient Times.
Agreed on the Golden Age, disagreed on Ancient Times. It's not that people started to move to the PC in 1990, it's that all the competing platforms had been completely abandoned by then. Look at how multi-platform the early games in all the big series were: Amiga, Apple II, C64, ST, and a year or two later, the shitty PC port. Now look at 87-88: suddenly the PC port is coming out the same year as the others. 1990: the non-PC versions don't even exist in some cases (Ultima 6). I think it's really the VGA/Adlib combination that killed the other platforms, when most developers decided that was the way to go, but the PC was already holding up relatively well since 1988 (take Ultima 5; it looks identical on PC, Amiga and ST).

Point is, that was years before id's breakthrough.

Garriott started turning a profit on his games on other platforms than the PC. I'm talking about the PC market exclusively.
Ah OK, I thought you meant games on home microcomputers in general. Still, see above.
 

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
U5: Looks identical - but certainly doesn't sound identical. No music on PC :decline:
 

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He might have meant personal computers (or home computers) in general rather that IBM PC architecture.
Huh? I thought he corrected me specifically because I thought he meant home computers in general and it turned out he meant PCs in particular.

U5: Looks identical - but certainly doesn't sound identical. No music on PC :decline:
There is now :smug:
 

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I don't think it did, FMV era was at its peak in 94-96, right after Doom. I think this was another reason the FPS genre took off so well actually: at least they were games, unlike the 7-CD extravaganzas that held a grand total of 15 minutes of gameplay in-between hours of just watching videos.
That's one thing that still gives me hope in this dork times of QTEs and cutscene rollercoasters - we had one era of crappy interactive movies, it ended.
 

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Yeah, just to clear that up, when I said PC's I meant IBM PCs, not "home computers" in general.

Games were still being coded in CGA (4 colours!) graphics in 1987, 3 years after the EGA (16 colours!!) standard was introduced. The PC Speaker is infamous for the horrible noises it made, even in the 1990s.
I agree with your idea about the PC being a shite platform until maybe 1987, but I disagree with all the specific examples you gave. I can't think of many CGA games in 87, and while it's true it took more than it should have for EGA to really kick off pretty much all the games of note (except maybe Wizardry) were on EGA by then.

The MS-DOS version of Wizball is a perfect example for my case. On home computers (not just PCs) it was a pretty big title at the time, so a conversion from the original C-64 version that toned down the graphics (not to mention the sound) is a very glaring mistake. On that note, I just remembered another title, Zombi. That was in 1990, and it was CGA. (It was also published by Ubisoft, so go figure.)

Sceptic said:
COMPLETELY disagree about sound though; the MT-32 came out in 1988 and offered better sound than any other platform could dream of, and by 1990 Adlib's OPL was pretty much standard. Then when Wing Commander II came out everyone rushed to buy a Sound Blaster, and those who could afford to hooked it up to the also just-released Sound Canvas. Sure, not everyone could afford a Roland, but the Adlib and SB were pretty cheap.

The problem with all of these sound cards that emerged in the late 80s is that they weren't "pretty much" the standard, they simply weren't the standard. They were an optional add-on that took quite a considerable know-how just to get installed and working properly, and more often than not required a visit to a computer workshop. EVERYONE that reads this that played games on PCs in the early 90s remember the pain of getting the IRQ and DMA setting correct for EVERY SINGLE GAME. Meanwhile Commodore computers and the Atari ST came with pretty decent sound chips as part of the starting package. True, they had upgrade problems of their own, but I doubt they were as troublesome as the sound cards were for the PC.

And speaking from my own personal experience, sound cards were NOT cheap. None of them were. Not until 1994 at the earliest. Not saying that you're wrong, it just doesn't add up to what I had to go through.

Agreed on the Golden Age, disagreed on Ancient Times. It's not that people started to move to the PC in 1990, it's that all the competing platforms had been completely abandoned by then. Look at how multi-platform the early games in all the big series were: Amiga, Apple II, C64, ST, and a year or two later, the shitty PC port. Now look at 87-88: suddenly the PC port is coming out the same year as the others. 1990: the non-PC versions don't even exist in some cases (Ultima 6). I think it's really the VGA/Adlib combination that killed the other platforms, when most developers decided that was the way to go, but the PC was already holding up relatively well since 1988 (take Ultima 5; it looks identical on PC, Amiga and ST).

You're making one mistake in the above statement, you're basing all the times above on the first examples, the pioneers and the trendsetters, if you'd like. Not on the norm. Ultima 6 is a perfect example of this. It was a groundbreaking title in many ways, one of which was that it required considerable resources above and beyond what was normal for a game to require at the time, Ultima or otherwise. The PC could certainly pull it off, it was easiest to start there. Origin were trendsetters in this regard, not following the norm. The same problem repeated itself 2 years later with Ultima 7, only on a much larger scale. Very few PC users could play Ultima 7 right off the bat on release day.

Competing platforms had NOT been completely abandoned by 1990. The 8-bits were as good as dead, true :)cry:) and the "no-name" 16-bit computer brands barely left a mark, but the Atari ST and the Amiga were still doing pretty good, and the Macintosh held out surprisingly well. But the support for them was waning in 1990. The PC was catching up really fast compared to where it was in 1987, but it didn't really catch up until 1991, and took the lead in 1992. By then the competing platforms were pretty much dead in the water.

The PC as a gaming platform did something that no other gaming platform has ever done: It evolved through the years. It caught up with the de facto standards of its time, then took the lead and replaced them. This is evident in your examples of when PC ports were released. But the PC ports were rarely comparable to the other versions. If it wasn't the graphics then it was the sound. Or the controls. Or the speed of the game. And to name one extreme example, the game Captive (1990) didn't get a PC release until 2 years later... and it was shit. Totally b0rked up the XP rewards. Graphics and gameplay are identical, music and sound are close, but it's still a failure.

PC conversions of games that were comparable to other versions weren't the norm until late 1989 at the earliest. It doesn't matter if the conversions were released at the same time, the quality had to add up as well. That is one of the reasons of my opinion of where the Golden Age starts.
 

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Copy-pasting my comment:

Great video as always. However, I don’t think violence is in any way more or less easy to simulate. The game mechanics of a first-person shooter can in many ways apply to a pattern-matching game, or a fire-fighting game, or any number of other generally unexplored genres, just as the numeric interactions of Sim City can be used to wage violent and bloody conquest in a war simulator.

What really matters are aesthetics – violence is attractive because it’s high-impact, has a gross-out factor to it, and satisfies primal thoughts and urges in players (not to get into psychology about this sort of thing), and it’s useful for game developers because it still gives instant and palpable feedback. Why does Nerf N-Strike not tear up the sales charts, despite Nerf being a big brand? It’s because players, both children and adults, aren’t attracted to the aesthetics of Nerf. When you’re eight years old, you play with Nerf guns because you fantasize about them being real guns – but that fantasy is no longer compelling when there is a “better” alternative, like Call of Duty.

Over the course of decades, gaming culture and to a greater extent Western culture in general has been defined by violence. It’s what we know (or what we think we know) and it’s what we’ve developed a mastery over creating and experiencing. As you point out, gamers have an entire lexicon which takes on a completely different meaning in the gaming context,such is our fascination and understanding of violent games. This is something we know deeply and it’s something we can relate to in the context of gaming. If we are to see a greater shift towards non-violent games, it won’t just require us to put aside the aesthetic sensibilities that define us, it will also require we develop a new understanding of the medium – and big publishers aren’t interested in that, nor are most people interested in re-learning how to experience games.
 

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I think a problem with this video is that he never comes out and just says that "A spatial simulation inevitably gravitates towards violent gameplay, because given an unlimited spatial sandbox, people will eventually start throwing stuff at other people and watching it go boom".
That's obviously what he's trying to say here, in simple terms.
 

Metro

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Interesting video but the guy needs to organize his thoughts a little better. As mentioned above a clear thesis would be nice. The 'violence' one just seems tacked on because he couldn't figure out what his main point was.
 

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Where were all these game philosophers back in the 90s?

Oh, nevermind. Most revolutionary game idea back from the 90s. (at 1.15).



"Hours of deep space probing"

I think he meant the ''other'' kind of probing. hehe
 

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://www.errantsignal.com/blog/?p=271





SONIC AND SPEED

I apologize for the length of this video. Halfway through editing it I realized it didn’t know if it wanted to be an essay on Sonic’s signature speed as a mechanic or a retrospective of a majority of the Sonic games. Sometimes it honestly takes that long to decide what I’m doing, and this episode is weaker for it.
Still, I think it manages to capture the overall arc of the franchise nicely, and manages to at least convey my key point – that Sonic was never really about speed originally, but is very much so now.

 

Peter

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Good stuff. This is probably the best artfaggy video game analysis show out there.
 

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Hmm, somehow I didn't notice this one. He didn't post about it on his blog.

 

Helly

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Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
Is that guy bro-likeable ?
I'm still looking for browish reviewers, it's kind or a rare species.
 

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