Dragon Age: Inquisition Pre-Release Thread

[Commissar Draco]

With Big AAA budgets you can't effort to make your customers players puzled, frustrated and/or let them loose the game; this is why VD approach ''GOOD FRACKING RIDDANCE'' is so fresh. You can do the VO right when you voice only greetings and key story lines and do the rest text only like Morrowind and Arcanum did. This way you can make last minute revisions to setting and side quests easily; also this way the actual VO does stands apart and contributes to the gravity of the encounter.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

What concerns me is stuff like dialogue budgets. It must be a nightmare to want to tell a story but have someone who says "you can only have 50 lines of dialogue for this quest, because we have to voice-act and animate all of it." That really cuts down on options and leads to much more generic dialogue since lines have to be written in such a way as they can be reused and won't directly reflect choices the player made.

I don't think that should be a problem. CDPR expanded initial dialogue for some of TW2s quests. No regard for budget has been observed.

CD Projekt have potato budgets but sell their games for Western prices. This is the reason why they can do a lot of the things they they do.

Brother None has told me that during the development of Witcher 2 CDPR may have had lower operating costs than inXile (lol)

The obvious solution: Potato wages for everyone!

 

[RK47]

More like...

 

[Storyfag]

What concerns me is stuff like dialogue budgets. It must be a nightmare to want to tell a story but have someone who says "you can only have 50 lines of dialogue for this quest, because we have to voice-act and animate all of it." That really cuts down on options and leads to much more generic dialogue since lines have to be written in such a way as they can be reused and won't directly reflect choices the player made.

I don't think that should be a problem. CDPR expanded initial dialogue for some of TW2s quests. No regard for budget has been observed.

CD Projekt have potato budgets but sell their games for Western prices. This is the reason why they can do a lot of the things they they do.

Brother None has told me that during the development of Witcher 2 CDPR may have had lower operating costs than inXile (lol)

The obvious solution: Potato wages for everyone!

Most AAA game devs deserve nothing more. Imagine Gaider trying to subsist for $2000

 

[Roguey]

It must be a nightmare to want to tell a story but have someone who says "you can only have 50 lines of dialogue for this quest, because we have to voice-act and animate all of it." That really cuts down on options and leads to much more generic dialogue since lines have to be written in such a way as they can be reused and won't directly reflect choices the player made.

Even non-voiced games have a dialogue budget on account of localization costs. Avellone got a lecture for blowing Torment's.

 

[Rake]

It must be a nightmare to want to tell a story but have someone who says "you can only have 50 lines of dialogue for this quest, because we have to voice-act and animate all of it." That really cuts down on options and leads to much more generic dialogue since lines have to be written in such a way as they can be reused and won't directly reflect choices the player made.

Even non-voiced games have a dialogue budget on account of localization costs. Avellone got a lecture for blowing Torment's.

Who cares? It was worth every last penny.

 

[Space Satan]

it is better to blow text that blow budget.

 

[Roguey]

It's irresponsible to go over budget especially if you do so without talking it over with the people in charge of it.

 

[sea]

these people do different sort of dialogues. they don't even need that many words anyway, they can just have facial expressions and zoom-ins on side-boobs. as long as the general idea of whatever is being communicated.
I don't think that fewer words has to lead to more generic writing. they're just bad writers.

But let's say the player now wants to discuss a quest, or a character's background, or there's some important story details, intrigue, whatever, that could exist, but now can't. Not all characters should blab on forever because that's unrealistic, but if you're, say, interrogating a hobo about the weather vs. talking with the guard captain about a serious string of murders linked precariously to a noblewoman, the options available need to properly reflect the situations and their place in the world.

I know I've certainly found that while playing Dragon Age II, Mass Effect, etc. many obvious dialogue options that should exist logically to explain what look like plot holes, or fit the quest into a wider context, simply did not. It hurts the all-important IMMERSHUN if even basic logical options aren't included, but derpy I WANT TO BE A DRAGON crap is.

 

[Spectacle]

Most AAA game devs deserve nothing more. Imagine Gaider trying to subsist for $2000

He should be able to go at least a year without spending any money on food, so I think he'd be fine.

 

[set]

All you guys are talking about TALKING and TEXT when games are about having fun. Who enjoys clicking on things and talking to people? What are you, that desperate of a shut-in? Go outside and talk to somebody. Get a LIFE! It's not like blue-skinned lesbians are hard to find here on earth, so I don't see the 'otherwordly' appeal at all - everyone is designed to appear familiar so it's boring asking people about their moonday or whatever.

Games should be about gameplay! ME4 needs more shooting. More guns. More bullets. Better multiplayer. More grenades. More action- you know- you barely fight a few robots. Where is the epic gunfight against a million robots? And why isn't there a whole N7 division? There could be this badass N7 Marshall guy that gives you orders and then- watch out! It's a bomb! Hurry! Oh, and then- yeah, and then, there's this holo-chick like whatsherface from Halo. That would be cool. And hot.

Oh, sorry, Dragon Age. I forgot. That's what we're talking about. Well, the same thing applies really. Dragon Age needs less, well, talking and more action. They could totally fix Dragon Age by getting the camera in real close, you know? Over the shoulder like. That'd make it more cinematic and shakeycamish and stuff. Add in a few wide shots of stuff... And well, more combat. WoW is fun and all, but since this isn't an MMO, you're better off... well just introduce guns. I mean, there's magic. Can't you explain guns exist because of magic, now? And they fire magic bullets instead of heatclips, or whatever. It'll make the game more fun, so the fans'll accept it. Besides, they whine about stupid stuff all the time. Just ignore them.

Of course, you can add arrows too I guess. Bows and arrows. Swords are cool too, but only if they're one-shot kills like the knife n' stuff. Oh, and there definitely needs to be- well, it's annoying, the potion stuff? So just get rid of it, it doesn't make sense anyway, I mean, drinking potions to heal? How stupid. Just have it regenerate like normal. That way, you don't have to sit around and wait or do something stupid like eat and sure potions make healing more difficult 'cause you gotta save them and stuff, but just add more combat, and more things to take cover behind to regenerate your health. That's way more exciting and there's less downtime and stuff.

Anything else I'm forgetting? You'd think BioWare would be able to figure this all out finally. As usual, they just aren't listening to the fans.

 

[CyberWhale]

Shitty troll. Please ban.

 

[Rake]

Too obvious

 

[set]

I'm not trolling. I think I've made some pretty legit points. You can plug your fingers in your ears if you want to though.

If you don't like the truth, plug your ears like everyone else! Censorship has resulted in this decline in video games though. When was last time we could talk about the validity of regenerating health and multiplayer without people getting all fussy and mass ignoring everyone.

 

[DragoFireheart]

I'm not trolling. I think I've made some pretty legit points.

All you guys are talking about TALKING and TEXT when games are about having fun. Who enjoys clicking on things and talking to people? What are you, that desperate of a shut-in? Go outside and talk to somebody. Get a LIFE!

You're either retarded or a troll.

 

[kris]

Most quests in RPGs are actually like that, but it's the way they take place in open game systems that makes them feel much bigger. A big problem with the modern BioWare formula is that there is no real gameplay associated with doing a quest - walk to NPC, press dialogue buttons (all which lead to the same outcome), maybe pick to help NPC 1 or NPC 2, fight some stuff, and done. The story impact is important but there are rarely if ever any decisions you make which affect how the game plays - i.e. pickpocket an item or kill its owner, persuade a guard to stand down or bribe him, etc., and whenever those choices do occur they are inevitably in dialogue scenes rather than something you can actually do yourself using the skills you have invested in with your character or party.

You didn't even delve into clearest problem with Bioware quests. It is the impossible to unlock doors. Basically...
1. Talk with someone.
2. door can be opened.
3. That is the only way in.
4. You enter to a cut-scene with conversation (or that comes as you reach the boss).

So, that means no alternative ways in. No way to ever make an ambush. Triggered conversation impends all alternatives. The door that can't be opened makes it so you can't stumble upon them, that you can't come upon it in another way. It is the way bioware work with many of their games/quests right now. Because this goes both for main quest and minor quests. Do X so you can reach Y.

 

[set]

You're either retarded or a troll.

Exclusive or inclusive or?

 

[Roguey]

Single player RPGs actually have more dialogue today than the non-fully voiced RPGs of the past. An uncomprehensive list:
The Guinness Book of World Records Champ New Vegas: 65,000 lines of dialogue
The runner-up Skyrim: 60,000
The other runner-up Dragon Age: Origins: 56,000 lines of spoken dialogue, unknown amount of written player responses (Game Informer claims it's over 68,000 total but that can't be right otherwise it'd be the Guinness record holder and they've misstated before, see below)
Fallout 3 and Mass Effect 3: 40,000
Dragon Age II: 38,000
Mass Effect 2: GI said it was 31,000 at first but later on Bioware claimed it was only 25,000
The Witcher 2: 23,000
The Witcher, Mass Effect, Bloodlines: 20,000
Knights of the Old Republic: 15,000. Since KOTOR2 was a shorter game by about two dozen hours or so it probably has less than that.
Dungeon Siege III: 12,000

Meanwhile I've read that Fallout only had about 2000 lines of dialogue.

So maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe it doesn't matter how many lines you're allowed to have, but what you do with them.

Wait, there's no maybe about it.

 

[Infinitron]

the non-fully voiced RPGs of the past.

I think you forgot to list some of these. You can start with the Infinity Engine games.

 

[clemens]

Single player RPGs actually have more dialogue today than the non-fully voiced RPGs of the past. An uncomprehensive list:

The runner-up Skyrim: 60,000

I would'nt call that dialogue, though.

- fetch me nirnroots
- a'rite
- damn mudcrabs.

There, 3 lines.

 

[Roguey]

the non-fully voiced RPGs of the past.

I think you forgot to list some of these. You can start with the Infinity Engine games.

I don't have any numbers but no one can seriously claim that the dialogue in BG, BG2, IWD, and IWD2 comes anywhere close to the amount of dialogue in even Knights of the Old Republic. Torment was always an outlier.

 

[Infinitron]

the non-fully voiced RPGs of the past.

I think you forgot to list some of these. You can start with the Infinity Engine games.

I don't have any numbers but no one can seriously claim that the dialogue in BG, BG2, IWD, and IWD2 comes anywhere close to the amount of dialogue in even Knights of the Old Republic. Torment was always an outlier.

In case you don't remember, your own idol famously complained that BG2 was too wordy. So yes, I seriously claim that.

 

[Roguey]

More contradictions, Roguey? Your own idol famously claims that BG2 was too wordy. So yes, I seriously claim that.

He said the characters were too expressive. It wasn't too wordy. FFS, from their writing guidlines

1. No modern day profanity. This excludes lesser profanity, i.e. damn, hell, bitch, bastard.
2. Each of the dialogue nodes (dialogue piece) spoken by an NPC should be limited to two lines. Only in VERY RARE circumstances are more than two used.
3. All character responses should be one line when they appear in the game. There should be no reason for them to be longer than this.
4. Try not to use accents in dialogue. For certain characters (Elminster, sailor types) it is all right, but for the most part it should be avoided.
5. When using player choices, try to keep the visible number to about three. Two or four are all right, but only when really necessary.
6. When an NPC talks directly to the main player, this should be noted for scripting purposes. Other dialogue should be included for when someone other than the main player talks to this character.
7. Random dialogue should be avoided, or at least used sparingly. Commoners should have only a few random dialogue lines, but there should be several different commoners to talk with.

You're misremembering how much dialogue it actually had.

 

[Infinitron]

I am not.

Have you forgotten that KOTOR suffered from "word counts" that were imposed at BioWare after they were shocked by the amount of text in BG2? FFS, you posted about that yourself!

 

[set]

Dragon Age has like, no branching. You can go to any of the major dungeons in any order, but in terms of narrative structure? Stuff just happens in a different order, that's it - there's no different outcomes except at the very, very end of the game.

BG2, at the very least, lets you work through two distinct story lines depending upon who you support to get reach Imoen, that has distinct story content differences, even if the outcome is basically the same no matter what branch you take.

Whether you support the werewolves or the elves has the most distinct 'branching' of any of the major quest areas, but those branches last all of five minutes. You either kill all the elves, make peace, or kill all the werewolves. Killing the elves gives you a few minor random werewolf events on the map, and visaversa, but whether you ally with the werewolves or not... none of the other factions care, nor does the end game map area change based upon what troops support you.

Older games might be less thick seeming when you go to tabulate X and Y about them, but there's a wild difference between FO1 and FO3, where FO3 sends you on a banal task that has a linear chaining to it, where FO1 has you take on a linear task - that can be suddenly alteredr if the mutants determine the location of your vault.

The difference between BG and DA is BG isn't afraid to give you maps that aren't simple corridor shoeboxes. There's a sense of freedom, even if there's still a general track you've to stay on.