Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Discussion in 'RPG News & Content' started by felipepepe, Feb 8, 2017.

  1. Sensukigender: ⚧ Arcane Cuck

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    I would love to see a cRPG with no character system, that relied purely on player skill increasing throughout the game (or at least, players playing better to meet the increase in challenge). Nothing wrong with hack and slash combat in RPGs, however the combat is usually awful because RPG designers lean on RPG mechanics more than the actual combat system mechanics - such as the movement system, the animation fluidity, the shooting or h&s mechanics etc.

    Pretty much all RPG designers are guilty of this actually (not just h&s etc), it's annoying.
     
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  2. Lurker Kinggender: ⚧ Self-Ejected The Real Fanboy

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    The problem is that this game would be a action game, not a cRPG. I understand your frustration. You are used to game competitions that require reflexes and coordination. cRPGs are the furthest thing from this. The abilities required involved mastering the combat system, making interesting combos, etc. Of course that is not an excuse for shitty combat, especially when it is not tied to character building as in a hack and slash.
     
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  3. Sensukigender: ⚧ Arcane Cuck

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    I think you can still have an RPG layer on top of this. Who says that a combat system has to be built around some kind of behind-the-scenes progression system?
     
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  4. gaussgunnergender: ⚧ Arcane

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    That's kinda what makes it "role playing". Basically the player's mind is acting through the character's body (and brain).

    Add a story "role playing" element and you have a full blown RPG.
    Add realtime player-skill-based combat and you have an Action RPG... stretching the definition of RPG.
    Take away the progression system, and you have an Action Adventure. Not An RPG.
     
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    Combat is a part of an RPG, but I don't think taking the RPG elements out of combat takes the RPG out of the game as long as it is present in other systems.
     
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  6. gaussgunnergender: ⚧ Arcane

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    You could make a CYOA with extensive non-combat skill checks, bolt on a shooter game, and call it an RPG. You might even get away with it here. But if combat and the RPG elements aren't connected, isn't one of them just busywork?
     
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  7. Sensukigender: ⚧ Arcane Cuck

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    not if it's fun?
     
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  8. Make America Great Again Darth Roxorgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis, Hater of Eternity

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    yes like deep lore
     
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  9. laclongquangender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Can you guarantee fun?
     
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  10. V_Kgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Can you name one Adventure game with action sequences that wouldn't be better without them?
     
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  11. Make America Great Again Irenaeusgender: ⚧ Self-Ejected Patron Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual The Real Fanboy

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    But that's an RPG or at least an adventure/RPG hybrid.
     
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  13. V_Kgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Yep, and combat is fundamentally optional (unless you're playing fighter class).
     
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  14. Make America Great Again Irenaeusgender: ⚧ Self-Ejected Patron Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual The Real Fanboy

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    ok, Full Throttle has some fun action parts.
     
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  16. Gangrelrumblergender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Sorry for responding after a whole week, but I was super-busy.

    If it's not a problem, then stop complaining about people not liking reloading. You can't argue people out of being annoyed.

    Not-true. Character that is only good at combat will miss many of the best rewards and quest endings in Fallout and many other RPGs.

    I'm not arguing that this game favours pacifists more, just that they don't rely that much on skill checks.

    Not true

    It's "more focused" because in AoD Pacifist charters are catered to, while in FO they are somewhat allowed to exist if player knows the game well.

    It's hard to get into, which will drive-off many players. It's hard to get at first, but it's smooth sailing once you get the basics. Also, most games have pathetic achievement data, most Steam users barely touch their games. In Furi and Metal Gear Rising, only half of the players got the third stages.
     
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  17. Lurker Kinggender: ⚧ Self-Ejected The Real Fanboy

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    You could argue that a game would be a cRPG with action combat if it has one or more of the following features: (1) systematic reactivity; (2) robust resource management; (3) systematic interaction with the game environment. It is also possible to emulate the other actions we should expect in some cRPGs such as skill checks and choices based on your own stats. Just as in an action game your success depends on your reflexes, your decisions could depend on your wits. Some adventure games provide an interesting example of this. You need to take some pieces of information and make your own conclusions. In a sense, this is what CYOAish games such as “King of Dragon Pass” already did, and I consider these games to be cRPGs. Therefore, it is possible to have emergent gameplay and action in a cRPG under the assumption that there are strict limits related to your own stats.
     
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  18. Lurker Kinggender: ⚧ Self-Ejected The Real Fanboy

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    Nobody likes to fail and reload, in any game. That’s just the price you pay for the challenge. My criticism is the extent of this frustration has been overblow as synonymous of bad design. This is not just impossible to defend, but reflects how much handholding, illusory character building, and combat we have in traditional storyfag games.
     
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  19. Gangrelrumblergender: ⚧ Arcane

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    But you've said yourself that they don't mind having to reload as long as they die in combat:
    "The funny thing is that dying and reloading to beat an encounter is considering good gameplay, but dying and reloading to beat a skill check is save-scumming, dumb persistence, etc."
     
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