Decline Sword Coast Legends Pre-Release Thread

[Gangrelrumbler]

Yes, if you want to direct your tirade at someone, Shannow, it should be me, since I predicted that GM would be shit like this:

GM MODE IN A NUTSHELL
Players: Moar orcs pl0x!
GM: Okay.
Players: Oh noes! We dying! Hep! Hep!
GM: Summon Drizzt.

And I now add this addendum.

Player: Yeah! We won!
Player: GG
Player: Totally awesome GMing, bro!
GM: Thanks ; )

I predict that since you can turn off this whole threat level bullshit nobody will ever use it. GMs won't feel comfortable having to babysit players, and players won't want to play with a GM that has to avoid killing them. The only question is whatever someone will even use the GM module.

Personally I don't care about combat system that much, the highest point of NVN were role-playing heavy modules, so modability is the more important question.

 

[Roguey]

Roguey is this you trolling the SCL forums? I'd like to believe this isn't a genuine post but I guess that's wishful thinking.

No. Why would someone use a Final Fantasy 6 name on a D&D board

Additionally this person has very specific tastes http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70761-curious-about-things-before-buying/

 

[Ulminati]

Additionally this person has very specific tastes http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70761-curious-about-things-before-buying/

- Romance Is there any of this in the game? if yes.. can the female main character interact with male npcs? or is it the typical male protagonist focus.

- No romance in this first game at least. Not enough money, but buy the game, and the sequal might have some.

So you're saying that I have to pirate the game to avoid inane romances in the sequel? 'k.

 

[Trodat]

Dev from their forums confirmed that the UI is not "final" but we'll see how much it will change.

 

[prodigydancer]

Does anyone else have a growing suspicion that n-Space guys really have no clue as to what kind of game they want to make?

I mean of course at first glance SCL looks like a standard shameless abuse of nostalgia but upon closer inspection things just don't add up. When your target audience is a bunch of grognards you don't talk about how your GM interface is great for eight-year-old kids. Read through the news - there are such conflicting messages and confusing signals everywhere. Mostly about how it's going to be a classic RPG despite all the action-y design elements. So are they trying to maximize the cash grab by pandering to all possible audiences? No, the first rule of maximum cash grab in this business is “make your shit multiplatform and focus primarily on consoles” yet SCL was announced as a PC exclusive.

A prediction based on this gut feeling theory: no release this year. What happens next? I'd say the most likely outcomes are: vapourware status (if they have enough funding) or releasing the game in a terribly unfinished state (if they don't).

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

No, I think their vagueness is deliberate so they're raking in the preorders on a mix of the DnD name, nostalgia and a few visuals they've shown. I've seen a huge variety of people on their forums - from old timer pnp players to NWN authors to popamole retards - and all think they're getting their perfect game. Devs on the forums won't even confirm stuff like if the HP bloat is real or there for testing purposes. Pretty shady really when accepting money.

I take your point about console releases but then look at the "console UI" which looks designed to avoid drag-drop or rmb use (apparently the UI is not final but I doubt it will suddenly change to a grid). And then they were mentioned at GDC during a Windows10 discussion, where MS's new "pay once and play on Windows or XBone" was announced. My guess - similar to WL2 they will first suck up the cash of pc gamers and then release for consoles once it has been playtested by the pc crowd. Would be very surprised if this doesn't come out for consoles, even the 4 character party limit hints at this.

 

[prodigydancer]

Well, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they're just bad at marketing and PR. But I was once involved in a vapourware startup project (not VG-related) and I think I see the telltale signs. Some amount of uncertainty and wavering is inevitable but you still need a clear vision of what you're trying to achieve.

Devs on the forums won't even confirm stuff like if the HP bloat is real or there for testing purposes.

Why do you rule out the dreadful possibility that they actually don't know?

Pretty shady really when accepting money.

It is shady. They advertise what they don't really have and make stuff up as they go.

 

[FuriousGamer87]

It is shady. They advertise what they don't really have and make stuff up as they go.

Maybe so. You forget that pretty much everyone in the gaming industry do this in a fashion or so.

 

[Infinitron]

I think one of the distinguishing factors between Kickstarter and AAA games is that the former usually make it clear very quickly whether or not they're genuinely "grognardy". Even the recent Underworld Ascendant KS, for all its problems, did this.

These guys are doing things AAA-style, and considering the game's graphical presentation and purported sources of inspiration, it is also aggressively incongruent.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

It seems DMs get bored just doing old-fashioned DM stuff, despite having their own visible cursor in the dungeon (special exclusive cursors available for those buying the collector pack) and "threat" resource to manage. Luckily, N-Space have come up with something fun and new - sweet loot for the DM!

http://www.gamesradar.com/sword-coast-legends-dungeon-master/

The GM also receives loot

Naturally, as the players explore and kill monsters, they are rewarded with sweet, sweet loot. And so is the dungeon master. This loot takes the form of new tricks to play on the players. In the demo I saw, the GM stumbled across a special amulet that let him summon a zombie hoard on command - which was a type of monster he didn't otherwise have access to.

 

[Bubbles]

Wonderful, wonderful. I can tell this is going to be my favourite news thread.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Finally a trickle of mechanical info from devs on the forums. HP bloat is needed or battles would last 20 seconds.
https://forums.swordcoast.com/index.php?/topic/302-adaptation-distillation/

First and foremost, keep in mind that a large percentage of the team are longtime pen and paper fans themselves. We know just how awesome the D&D rulesets can be.

But it's also important to recognize the context in which both games are being played. From my personal experience, my average D&D battle (with four players controlling their characters plus an additional 1-2 NPCs) might be 8-10 rounds long and take roughly 40-80 minutes, and I absolutely love that - it hits the sweet spot where an encounter is interesting but doesn't drag on for too long.

But if we took those identical values and plugged them into a real-time video game system where rounds occur simultaneously and may only be a couple seconds long, suddenly we're looking at battles starting and ending in less than 20 seconds - a bit too quick to hit that same sweet spot where an encounter feels right.

I can't speak to the specific values you've seen and whether they're placeholder (I'm currently focused on other areas of the project), but I can tell you we have designers who have spent months living in spreadsheets and data, balancing the game so that battles are engaging - requiring the types of tactical decisions and adjustments that make them satisfying.

In the end, our goal is to take the strategic and social elements of D&D that we all enjoy and translate them over to this video game while wrapping it in an engrossing story. I promise we will not deviate from that.

Neverwinter Nights is probably a closer comparison in terms of combat. A round in Neverwinter Nights is 6 seconds long, with a lot of idle time in between. We are lower than that.

I'd love to speak to it in greater detail, but you'll be able to make a pretty good determination for yourself when we get some solid gameplay footage to you in the near future.

 

[jimmy_pvish]

Does anyone else have a growing suspicion that n-Space guys really have no clue as to what kind of game they want to make?

I mean of course at first glance SCL looks like a standard shameless abuse of nostalgia but upon closer inspection things just don't add up. When your target audience is a bunch of grognards you don't talk about how your GM interface is great for eight-year-old kids. Read through the news - there are such conflicting messages and confusing signals everywhere. Mostly about how it's going to be a classic RPG despite all the action-y design elements. So are they trying to maximize the cash grab by pandering to all possible audiences? No, the first rule of maximum cash grab in this business is “make your shit multiplatform and focus primarily on consoles” yet SCL was announced as a PC exclusive.

A prediction based on this gut feeling theory: no release this year. What happens next? I'd say the most likely outcomes are: vapourware status (if they have enough funding) or releasing the game in a terribly unfinished state (if they don't).

They think D&D name alone can get them grognards (funny to use this word, in P&P community, grognard refer for 1e royalist, for them (all 3 of them) anythings after that is shit).
Thanks to lawsuits nightmare, aside from some shitty MMO here and there, there are 0 proper D&D game for 7-8 years. (KotC is only good one, and it is indie)
PC markets thirst for D&D fixed.

 

[mastroego]

It seems DMs get bored just doing old-fashioned DM stuff, despite having their own visible cursor in the dungeon (special exclusive cursors available for those buying the collector pack) and "threat" resource to manage. Luckily, N-Space have come up with something fun and new - sweet loot for the DM!

http://www.gamesradar.com/sword-coast-legends-dungeon-master/

The GM also receives loot

Naturally, as the players explore and kill monsters, they are rewarded with sweet, sweet loot. And so is the dungeon master. This loot takes the form of new tricks to play on the players. In the demo I saw, the GM stumbled across a special amulet that let him summon a zombie hoard on command - which was a type of monster he didn't otherwise have access to.

There's always a silver lining to this kind of news.
I now have one less game to keep track of.
I swear at times it feels like a job... luckily I get to prune them away from the list VERY fast lately.

 

[Ebonsword]

...in P&P community, grognard refer for 1e royalist, for them (all 3 of them) anythings after that is shit).

The white box is the only true edition, peasant.

 

[imweasel]

Dev from their forums confirmed that the UI is not "final" but we'll see how much it will change.

Let's see if that means that they will redesign the shitty console centric UI and give PC gamers a proper UI.

But I don't think much will happen other than some minor tweaking.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

But if we took those identical values and plugged them into a real-time video game system where rounds occur simultaneously and may only be a couple seconds long, suddenly we're looking at battles starting and ending in less than 20 seconds - a bit too quick to hit that same sweet spot where an encounter feels right.

I do remember overwhelming my enemies in only a few combat rounds in past DnD cRPGs. It happened frequently. What wonderful times.

 

[zero29]

well, it seems you were having fun the wrong way. thankfully scl will change that. forever.

 

[Bubbles]

In ten years people will describe Dragon Age 6 as "a loving homage to Sword Coast Legends".

 

[Trodat]

well, it seems you were having fun the wrong way. thankfully scl will change that. forever.

Lol, it's the same shit all over again.

 

[Zombra]

Just caught up with the thread ...

Actually I can kinda get into the idea of a "Dungeon Keeper Versus Mode" kind of game, where the one guy isn't a real D&D Dungeon Master, but instead an unkillable spirit that flies around toying with the lives and deaths of these adventurers, but not simply trying to kill them all. Kinda puts me in a Squire of Gothos sort of mood. I don't care whether it's faithful to some edition of D&D I never played anyway.

I'm not saying it's going to be good, but I don't mind at all the idea of limiting the antagonist player's powers, giving him loot too, etc. That could still be plenty fun if you're not pretending it's D&D.

 

[Grunker]

I agree. It's a little like the board game Descent's mechanics. So I don't get the complaining there. My issue remains the faux D&D and IE-posturing.

 

[Telengard]

Start putting their comments together.

...the goal is to create a mutually satisfying play experience tailored to a particular group's tastes. If a party of players is looking for a particular challenge, the DM will be incentivized to provide it, but she’ll also be equipped with tools which allow her to help the players out of jams and advance the story. Dungeon Masters will be rewarded for creating and conducting engaging adventures.

How do you incentivize the GM to help players?

Threat is effectively the currency for the DM, and can only be regained by building a rewarding scenario for the player.

So you've got this Threat currency. But how do you assess whether something has been rewarding for the players or not? Well, they want the matches to be "tailored to a particular group's tastes" and you've got the players rating the GMs, with the ability to see "which GM is best".

Whelp. You incentivize the GM by tying their Threat powers availability and range of abilities to their GM rating. Thumbs Ups for more Threat power.

Now, since most people are whiny little posers who only pretend to want to be challenged, but really don't want to be challenged at all, the best way to increase GM rank is to people please, to allow the players to dictate the content. So, increase the difficulty because they want to be "challenged", and then, when they complain, save them. Because, "TPKing is bad". Or to put that another way, give them the illusion of challenge, all so you can gain more Thumbs Ups, get more Threat powers, and be listed on the GM Leaderboard Rank as the most people-pleasing pushover bestest GM evah!

 

[Trodat]

https://forums.swordcoast.com/index.php?/topic/318-community-update-two-questions/

Another Q&A

 

[prodigydancer]

Now, since most people are whiny little posers who only pretend to want to be challenged, but really don't want to be challenged at all

True. I wish people were more open about what they really want. For example, I see no shame in admitting that I'm challenged enough IRL. I view games as entertainment and play them to relax. Occasionally I don't mind a tough fight but I don't understand why the perceived ideal is a game that makes you want to ragequit at every turn.