SWAT 4: one of those non-generic FPSs that deserves a sequel

[RK47]

I remember playing Police Quest when I was younger, it has ugly graphics (not bad for its time) and forces me to apply police procedure when handling suspects (when to draw gun, when to tell suspect to stop, read their rights and cuff 'em) for an adventure it was okay'ish, but there were only one or two instances when firing the gun is a solution to the problems.

I have no problem with that, I could save the game and shoot suspect and reload the game when Jim Walls the designer would tell me where I've gone wrong

But after a while Sierra decided to drop the 'draw gun, point at the guy and pick up shit for points', they turned it into 'draw gun, talk suspect into cooperating, and shoot the motherfucker when he refused to cooperate.'

I avoided it. I wasn't really into shooters, Counterstrike was boring enough. Camping and having random flashbangs screw you up. Or some goon sitting behind a crate with a sniper rifle. Then I decided to torrent Swat 4 a few years ago.

Damn what a good game. I was enjoying the single player, but the co-op was amazing for its time. I got some of my friends into it, when it didn't work I bought a copy and burned a copy for everyone one of them. Instant hit.

The pacing was great, even noobs who use 'Player' as their nicks have a chance as long they do it by the book. Player, seen here is using the Optic Wand to scope the room ahead. Then we have him tell us a number. 0, 1, 2 , 3 etc to indicate how many perps in the room. Then the lead (usually me) would advise on what to do next. Flashbang? Gas em? or Skip?

For 5 player co-op this game is pure awesome. Clearing some hospitals or some creepy guy's basement. Or finding out a laundry shop that acted as a front for an illegal casino.

The thrilling part comes when we come into contact with the suspects themselves, some open fire on sight, we can fire back at them. Some don't and try to make a break for it. Naturally, as a CS regular, we shoot'em and got an 'unauthorized usage of deadly force' for it. (basically a poor mission rating) like the one below:

Why am sharing this? Cause I recently re-downloaded it out of boredom and got my neighbour to play it with me. I'm looking forward to hooking up with the rest again on 5 man co-op. This game teaches me to appreciate some cop-work. Wish Sierra makes a sequel, the abundance of Hollywood shooter is all fine, but what happened to those authentic tactical shooters. And I'm not talking about Rainbow Six. Tell me if there's any shooters like these, cause I love some good co-op (PC only please!)

 

[User was nabbed fit]

SWAT 4 and SWAT 3 are the only games on PC I can think of which require the proper use of Rules of Engagement when it comes to dealing with criminals (i.e. not terrorists, which is what most other tactical games use as enemies). If I were you, I'd check out SWAT 3.

Rainbow Six is more of a counter-terrorist game, and the ROE for dealing with terrorists is usually to wipe them out (unless they're needed for something). The nature of most terrorists means that they're unlikely to give up, and their mindset is different to that of most civilians. Let's put it this way, a guy who took his landowner hostage is more likely to negotiate (or to give up when told to surrender by stormtroopers) than a terrorist who believes in a cause. Units operating on CT missions don't mess about: see the British SAS and the Iranian embassy hostage situation. All but one guy was killed, and he was lucky because he managed to get outside; they didn't want to kill him in front of the cameras (as said by the men themselves much later). In fact Thatcher told them not to leave a single guy alive and was quote "disappointed" (jokingly) when she heard one did survive.

So if you're not looking for 'kill the terrorists' but more of 'stop the criminals' type game, then those focusing around SWAT/police would be more your thing than tactical military games. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of games about SWAT or the police... most tactical games deal with terrorists/military units (whose ROE is of course less stringent than that of the police). So while there is the possibility of arresting people in a game like R6: Raven Shield, the main effort is to take them down (as few of them surrender in the game compared to those who fight back). Which is the contrary in the SWAT series.

So, yeah, all I can say is SWAT 3. I agree that they need to make more games focused on arresting criminals (with the eventual use of deadly force if necessary) rather than more 'kill the terrorists' games.

 

[Gragt]

I might want to give it a try later. You sound like you recommand SWAT 3 over 4, any reason for that?

 

[someone else]

Swat 4 eh? Played this game on and off. There are some good players online, or there used to be...

Tips for newbies:

1)Mirrorer: "2 Sus, 10 and 11(thats o'clock), no mask, right view blocked."
2)CS>Bangs except for maps where suspects wear masks. Wait for the CS to clear a bit before going in. Multiple grenades are useful, esp 1 close, 1 far. Extreme use is drop a CS infront of the door before opening it, the CS will seep into the room earlier. This is less useful in Swat4 than in Swat3 where it is overpowered.
3)You can mirror corners and open doors if the suspects spotted you, I have seen a suspect aiming at the open door and then relax and look away, allowing me to lean and gas him.
4)Grenade launchers are noisy but thrown grenades are silent. Eg, suspect hiding behind corner, firing the GL may cause him to run out before the "explosion".
5)Always cover openings. Wedges can be used to seal off areas.
6)The person who mirrors is in the best position to go in first, but this usually means more than 1 person has to take a wand in case he gets downed.
7)Lockpick(stealth) or C2, which is good when suspects are close to doors, it stuns or kills them if close enough, don't use shotgun to breach. Shotguns don't stun, they just tell the suspects "we are coming in". They are good for rushing through cleared wedged doors, and then you not be carrying C2.
8)If you are really afraid, you can open the door, mirror the opening and then nade/enter, instead of the usual open, nade and clear.
9)Pepper spray is a good alternative to Tazers, they have shorter range but don't miss.
10)Suspects who wear gas masks are immune to CS, pepper gun and pepper spray, avoid these weapons on maps with masked suspects.
11)If you want to avoid being close when opening doors, one way is to C2 it from afar behind cover. This is good when you have a small team or tricky doors like the basement of Walcott(sp?) Projects allowing you to safely GL from up the stairs.
12)Lethal primary with non-lethal secondary is a good combination & vice versa. I love the grenade launcher and usually take the .45 pistol as back up.
13)Hurting civilians carry a penalty, don't punch or bean/GL them. Pepper spray or tazer them.
14)Shoot through wooden door and walls for lethal kills.
15)Try full lethal mode where you gun down everyone, suspects and hostages both.

I remember getting 100 for the map 'Diamonds' and we were rushing through the map.

 

[Nael]

Great game definitely. I always "cheated" by outfitting my team almost always exclusively with non-lethal weaponry. Cheap, I know, but I like shooting things. Sue me.

 

[MetalCraze]

too bad in SWAT4 AI was stupid in counter-terrorist missions. probably one of those guys will give up on the whole map at best - but no - your squad just feels like they need to go in and nicely ask terrorist to put down the weapons, while terrorists keep shooting and killing them.
that's why I prefer to simply go rambo on such missions, outfitting myself and guys with the most lethal weapons available and then myself killing mofos through doors and on sight before they will put down my team in 2-3 seconds.

 

[Dmitron]

There are some very decent mods that enhance and tweak Swat 4. We always play coop with this: http://www.hot-swat-mods.com/modules.ph ... it&lid=762

Swat 3 was a great game for it's time, but sadly FPShooters don't date that well. Swat 4 has some of the best coop out there. Probably the "newest" tactical shooter after ArmA.

 

[Nael]

There are some very decent mods that enhance and tweak Swat 4. We always play coop with this: http://www.hot-swat-mods.com/modules.ph ... it&lid=762

Swat 3 was a great game for it's time, but sadly FPShooters don't date that well. Swat 4 has some of the best coop out there. Probably the "newest" tactical shooter after ArmA.

Thx for the link Dmitron. I'll definitely have to check it out. Do you think it makes actual tactical play easier or more difficult. In other words are suspects more prone to fire their weapon/run/or give up? I remember editing a config file to tweak their behavior because I thought that they hardly ever gave up, and would usually fire back as soon as you told them to get down. But the config edit was a pretty hamfisted way of doing it.

 

[Dmitron]

Harder I guess. Certain things have been tweaked for easier use (the optiwand is now a lot faster to equip). The suspects are less predictable. Sometimes upon opening a door they will open fire blindly, and are more likely to draw a sidearm even after dropping their primary.
It does not drastically alter gameplay, just enhances.

That link to the mod is out of date, google for SSF Realism Mod 3.2 to find downloads. I think it's mostly bugfixes. Also, it does requires the expansion (which is well worth getting, regardless of it being a little buggy).

 

[fastpunk]

Tried this in a net cafe. It was quite good, though movement seemed a tad slow, but that might just be me since I'm more of a Quake\Unreal player.

 

[RK47]

Heh got Stechkov Syndicate the expansion pack, gonna have more maps and hopefully they improve the gun drawing speed. Wish there's a replay option though, really love reviewing what we did right / wrong.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

SWAT 4 was a really great game, I've never played the others for comparison though. I played online for awhile and it was fun but I was dissapointed that my friends had shit computers or were poor so I couldn't play it w/ith them. It would basically be the ultimate co-op experience.

SWAT 4 was the only game to actually make me barf, had a pot pie for dinner then played online and everyone was spamming those scatter nades or what ever they were called which makes your screen get all distorted. Most likely it was just bad food but I like to think the game pushed me over the edge.

I doubt there would be a SWAT 5 anytime soon since irrational was bought by Take Two and Vivenda has the SWAT license. Vivdena could still find a new developers but you know how that goes.

 

[Annonchinil]

Sierra is soon to be a part of Activision Blizzard, and many of its projects are under review from Activision, mainly a console publisher. Other than Operation Flashpoint I never really got into other tactical FPS games, but I will give the demo of this one a go.

 

[RK47]

Gotta love the new additions in the X-pack:
-Grenade launchers that comes in different load outs like gas, sting or flash. Shines in those 2-3 man co-op since we're hurting for more crowd control. One is great, 3 is overkill but funny. Sting launchers for everyone.

-Ammo Packs: Ran out of bullets? This one adds 2 additional clips, gives 8 more nades for your launcher. Win!

-Cobra stun gun: Choose from single or double fire mode from this 2-shot taser pistol. Basically makes the old one obsolete. It also has a melee attack that you does not take up ammo but still achieve the same effects.

-Melee attack: You can now bash people up instead of fumbling for a taser or pepper spray on uncooperative civvies. Give 'em a punch and they'll yield.

 

[Dmitron]

I doubt there would be a SWAT 5 anytime soon since irrational was bought by Take Two and Vivenda has the SWAT license. Vivdena could still find a new developers but you know how that goes.

Actually, Sierra did release another game in the franchise after Swat 4. For the fucking PSP.

-Melee attack: You can now bash people up instead of fumbling for a taser or pepper spray on uncooperative civvies. Give 'em a punch and they'll yield.

Yeah, this was a much needed addition. No more frustration over forgetting to bring pepper spray to submit an unwilling civilian.

 

[RK47]

well fuck looks like there's no tactical shooter like it. So I'll settle for next best thing: Is there any co-op shooter game that doesn't involve playing in a 16 v 16 environment?

 

[someone else]

well fuck looks like there's no tactical shooter like it. So I'll settle for next best thing: Is there any co-op shooter game that doesn't involve playing in a 16 v 16 environment?

Conflict series? They are so-so in quality. Alien Swarm is a coop top down shooter mod for UT 2004. Brothers in arms has coop mode, but that I don't like it.

 

[Nael]

well fuck looks like there's no tactical shooter like it. So I'll settle for next best thing: Is there any co-op shooter game that doesn't involve playing in a 16 v 16 environment?

Any of the Rainbow 6 games.

 

[Dmitron]

Ground Branch is worth keeping an eye on.

It's a game being developed by an indie study made up of ex good Rainbow Six titles and Ghost Recon (I think) developers. They game is intended to be a proper tactical shooter, unlike the "tac" shooters we see today.

 

[Tychus Findlay]

SWAT 4 was good. There were a few things that didn't click with me about it (if I recall, you could just walk around pepper-balling everyone with no penalties, AI acted funky sometimes (though for the most part was good)). Atmosphere/presentation was fantastic (loved the signs and posters in that dotcom data storage office).

The randomized elements is something I'm surprised isn't seen more often. It would seem a more cost-effective way to add replayability...

But yeah, can't really think of other small squad-based co-op tacshooters for the PC.

Not a shooter per se, but Splinter Cell had some interesting co-op play.

 

[Gragt]

Right I'm gonna give it a try then.

 

[RK47]

Think me and my buddy got our ass kicked a lot more times after installing the expansion, some suspects got right back up after dropping their pistols if we don't cuff em fast enough and manage to catch us off guard. Got my friend jumpy that he mistook me standing up from a crouching position as a suspect. Shot me on the head. Bastard

 

[Dmitron]

:D Sounds like damn good fun. Might need to see if my posse is available for a game this weekend..

 

[RK47]

SWAT 4 was good. There were a few things that didn't click with me about it (if I recall, you could just walk around pepper-balling everyone with no penalties, AI acted funky sometimes (though for the most part was good)). Atmosphere/presentation was fantastic (loved the signs and posters in that dotcom data storage office).

The randomized elements is something I'm surprised isn't seen more often. It would seem a more cost-effective way to add replayability...

But yeah, can't really think of other small squad-based co-op tacshooters for the PC.

Not a shooter per se, but Splinter Cell had some interesting co-op play.

Pepper balls is quite useful but in some missions they wear gas masks, forcing you to employ tasers instead or pistols. Also, despite the 200 pellets they give me, I seem to burn through them pretty fast since I start to shoot wildly. I'll try to post a LP on my nightly session with my neighbour. The dynamic soundtrack was quite distracting but pumps adrenaline. We had to turn it off to prevent our 'rushing instinct' from kicking in. Fast track usually plays when you toss a bang in, then when things quiet down they play a 'foreboding' tune to keep us in our toes.

I love the bomb defusing mission. We went in for the first time and had 14 minutes. Although we panicked and started shooting like crazy (Fuck mirrors, shoot to kill) to rush through, we managed to find the last bomb before time's up. Now that is really gameplay done right.

 

[filogreek]

The bullet penetration system in SWAT 3 was fantastic, it made you think about which ammo type to use and discouraged spray-firing a fully automatic weapon indoors because the bullets can go through some walls depending on type of surface and bullet; it can go right through and hit hostages on the other side if you are unlucky (or criminals, if you spot them behind corners using the opti-wand).
I have played SWAT 4 but I cannot remember if it was actually the same system or if it was simplified like many other shooters (Ravenshield for example only allows some large caliber weapons to shoot through wooden doors, if I remember correctly).