Development Info South Park: The Stick of Truth delayed

[Mrowak]

In the business-world if the developer fails to show the reserve to the investors (here the backers), it means that he does not have it

Here we go again. Which company in their right mind would make this information public? None. I may have blind faith in them, but you on the other hand are obsessed with the can't see it = doesn't exist assumption.
Yes, the investors can look into the book of a company. But the backers are not investors in a strict business sense. We are donators. Which is not the same. There is no law or contract which forces Obsidian to share this information with us. They would be stupid to leak these informations to the public and to the competitors if they are not have to.

Did they prove to you that they do have a backupt plan at any point? Did the projects they were involved in show that they had a backup plan?

Did they prove that they don't have a backup plan?

As opoosed to your I can't see it, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, approach. With this line of logic, it's just Big Foot and Chupacabra all over again.

One more time, you are naive. You want the backup plan to exist, but you have no grounds for it. In fact Obsidian's past projects and the problems they have with the current one, as well as the sheer fact that they had to ask people (and not real investors) to support their upcoming project give enough circumstantial evidence that they do not have what you *hope* for. Sorry J_C, but it's marketing - smokes and mirrors.

 

[J_C]

, as well as the sheer fact that they had to ask people (and not real investors) to support their upcoming project give enough circumstantial evidence that they do not have what you *hope* for. Sorry J_C, but it's marketing - smokes and mirrors.

What? I thought kickstarter projects exist because no publisher would fund these niche titles, even if they would have a great business plan.

 

[Brother None]

Expecting unlisted companies to make that kind of stuff public for no good reason does seem a bit of a stretch, Mrowak.

That said, Wasteland 2 for example does have a revenue stream to rely on should development be delayed for a modest amount of time. And we know that, because Fargo's talked about it, and is careful to budget the company as a whole for such delays. We don't really know if that's the case for P:E, but we don't absolutely know for sure that it's not. Both viewpoints require some assumptions.

 

[Mrowak]

, as well as the sheer fact that they had to ask people (and not real investors) to support their upcoming project give enough circumstantial evidence that they do not have what you *hope* for. Sorry J_C, but it's marketing - smokes and mirrors.

What? I thought kickstarter projects exist because no publisher would fund these niche titles, even if they would have a great business plan.

If I was a publisher and was presented with great deal of nothing like they did with P:E, I would sure as hell not fund it. I am beginning to see why publishers are so reluctant in funding nich titles, and what mechanism are at work that make them enforce changes in the project midway. Due to the amatourish way they are made, publishers simply have to secure their investment. If you don't have a plan, they we will plan it for you.

Expecting unlisted companies to make that kind of stuff public for no good reason does seem a bit of a stretch, Mrowak.

That said, Wasteland 2 for example does have a revenue stream to rely on should development be delayed for a modest amount of time. And we know that, because Fargo's talked about it, and is careful to budget the company as a whole for such delays. We don't really know if that's the case for P:E, but we don't absolutely know for sure that it's not. Both viewpoints require some assumptions.

Me demanding a detailed business plan consistening of exact expenditure is a myth. I want the preliminary plan of the project. What they should have done is prove that they have thought the whole thing through - that they know what they will do with their money, know what assets they require, know which stage of development comes after which, and how they are going to achieve it. Seeing Josh proclaiming at the end of the campaign that they threw all those promises just for the heck of it, and that they still have no idea how to reach their goals now, isn't exactly very reassuring.

Saying that if worse comes to worst, Obsidian has a mythical stash of money it will use to back up the project is just... foolish. And spending that money would be idiotic, because once the budget is decided changing it midway is a sure sign of mismanagement.

Projects of this scope need at least something substantial to support them. In case of small teams at kickstarter it's usually an Alpha version of a game. In case of Obsidian - who cannot just churn out an Alpha out of nowhere, it should be some documentation and outline of a plan, so that we know that they can achieve it.

 

[l3loodAngel]

J_C is right. 20 people won't consume much water, electricity or floor space.

1. Project planning / meeting room (that's big enough for 20 people). Break area / Lunch room (big enough for 20 people). Kitchen. Toilets. Reception area. And I haven't even mentioned the 20 desktop PC setups yet or a quiet office for the Manager so he can have private meetings with staff about their performance or the part of the project they're working on.

Unless of course, you want them falling over the Stick of Truth development team and getting in each other's way.

What if Obsidian, as a company, has its own dedicated budget for overhead which is separate from all other budgets?

2. So what you're basically saying is that Obsidian should remove one of its costs of production from the game itself - and pay for it with this "other money" which they apparently have.

3. Hey, why don't they just pay for the P:E staff out of this mystical "free money" as well! That'll save 'em heaps!

4. You're a business genius. You should write a self-help book. It'd be called: "Going Broke - The quick way to lose cash hand over fist by hiding all your costs." You know, Enron did that...

1. I don't understand your sarcasm so I won't wont pretend that I do.
2. Let me illustrate with a simple example. Your company X is renting floor space to run a company. It rents two floors in the building and it has 70 sq meters of leftover space that the company can't utilize. This area must be cooled/heated, paid for and can't be rented. You are not renting new space for your production! So this unused area is a dead weight loss for the company anyway, but it's the cost of running the big project such as South Park.

Meeting rooms: They can be shared with a schedule and any space that can fit 20 chairs and is closed off can be called a meeting room. You don't need a table or fancy equipment to throw ideas around, but you need that when you have no ideas to throw around.

Break area: same as with meeting room, you bring a schedule and that's it.

Reception is already paid for, as is computers. So the only thing left is running water and electricity. I don't know how much water is JS gona use, but I am pretty sure that not much and even then employees for projects overlap. Electricity should costs around 50$ a month for PC. So 50$ x 20 employees x 18 months = 18K. That's 0.4% of the Budget YAY. We are good at accounting!

3. There is no such thing a free money, but South Park game pays for the studio rent as it is the cost of making the game.
4. That's not the same and Enron did cooked books, that's a different story.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

What happens if during development, they see that they have to throw a few hundred thousand into the project. They will use their own money, not just the one from the kickstarter.

That's what I thought. They would get the money from KS and then add their money since it's the only opportunity for them to avoid bankruptcy. However, no one except Feargus knows how much they have.

Yes. Saying that they don't have some additional fund on their account would mean that they don't have a solution if a temporary financial problem comes in. I'm not saying that they have millions in their stash (although even that is possible), but they must have a few hundred thousand at least. A big company like Obsidian cannot rely on publisher funding alone 100%. They must have reserve to stay in business when one of their game is cancelled or their pitch is not working.

You guys are great. Seriously.

1. What happens if during development, they see that they have to throw a few hundred thousand into the project.
- It means they fucked up. And if they fucked that up, they really fucked up.

2. They will use their own money, not just the one from the kickstarter.
- Obsidian don't have their own money. If they did, they wouldn't need to do a KickStarter. Remember, the original budget for this project was $1M (10% would've gone on fees). Obsidian didn't even have enough for a $1M project. They are a game studio with "50 - 200 employees". 50 to 200 employees = annual employee costs of anywhere between $2M - $10M per annum plus the associated overheads - which would be a few hundred thousand to millions (20% - 30% of staff costs). That "couple of hundred thousand" reserve money? It'd keep their doors open and a roof over their heads. It wouldn't be able to be used on funding staff to keep the project alive.

3. Saying that they don't have some additional fund on their account would mean that they don't have a solution if a temporary financial problem comes in.
- They don't. Again, in just March this year. "cancelled a next-gen project", "20-30 people have been laid off", "one day after he started work", "another just one week after he started", "layoffs impacted the existing South Park team", "It was around this time last year that Obsidian laid off a number of employees". Why is there this delusion that this time they'll magically put their own money in and yet twice now they've cancelled projects and laid off entire teams when funding ran out? Why not put "their own funding in" then? Here's an even scarier thought: What if they did? How much more of their own funding do you think they have left now?

4. I'm not saying that they have millions in their stash (although even that is possible)
- No. It is NOT possible. Why on EARTH would it be possible - when they've just asked for a measly $1M to do P:E? What, it was to top up Feargus' personal slush-fund? "Oh hey guys, we've got millions in our stash but uh, give us more cash!". If anything, that only makes things worse.

Who are you people? Do you even have brains?

, as well as the sheer fact that they had to ask people (and not real investors) to support their upcoming project give enough circumstantial evidence that they do not have what you *hope* for. Sorry J_C, but it's marketing - smokes and mirrors.

What? I thought kickstarter projects exist because no publisher would fund these niche titles, even if they would have a great business plan.

And apparently, not even Obsidian are willing to fund these titles themselves with their magic "possible millions".

 

[Infinitron]

DarkUnderlord Stop using gross estimates of figures that are well-known for rhetorical purposes. We know Project Eternity won't have 40 employees working on it. We know Obsidian doesn't have 200 employees.

Let me add that while I doubt Obsidian has "millions", the fact that they had a Kickstarter is not a definite indication that they do not. Hypothetically, if a company raises 4 million on Kickstarter and adds another 4 million of their own, then that's a serious budget we're talking about, nearing AAA level. Kickstarters are also a way to generate PR. There's no reason not to try to ask for additional money on top of what you have.

 

[agentorange]

Hypothetically, if a company raises 4 million on Kickstarter and adds another 4 million of their own, then that's a serious budget we're talking about, near AAA level.

o_O

 

[Infinitron]

Hypothetically, if a company raises 4 million on Kickstarter and adds another 4 million of their own, then that's a serious budget we're talking about, near AAA level.

o_O

Example: Gears of War cost 10 million

 

[Emily]

Yeah even if they had 10+ millions there is no reason why they wouldnt want to get even more money via kickstarter.

 

[Harold]

Expecting unlisted companies to make that kind of stuff public for no good reason does seem a bit of a stretch, Mrowak.

That said, Wasteland 2 for example does have a revenue stream to rely on should development be delayed for a modest amount of time. And we know that, because Fargo's talked about it, and is careful to budget the company as a whole for such delays. We don't really know if that's the case for P:E, but we don't absolutely know for sure that it's not. Both viewpoints require some assumptions.

In one of the millions of interviews thay did during their campaign, Feargus said they'll set aside an amount of money from the funding for unforseen events that may happen, like delays or technical problems etc and the further into development they get they'll take more money from that stash until it's all spent. So yes, we do know they did at least some basic-level contingency planning.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Let me illustrate with a simple example. Your company X is renting floor space to run a company. It rents two floors in the building and it has 70 sq meters of leftover space that the company can't utilize. This area must be cooled/heated, paid for and can't be rented.

You still live with your parents, don't you? Put in other words: You've never paid an electricity bill.

Because you just said it: This area must be cooled / heated. And yet when you do electricity costs later: "Electricity should costs around 50$ a month for PC". Cooling and heating is by far the single biggest electricity expense. It's why your parents don't turn the air-conditioner on all the time even though it's hot or why the heater isn't always on. We aren't just talking about running the PC here.

Heating and cooling that empty floor space is a huge cost. Your example is only a sign of financial mismanagement and incompetence. It means they're wasting money by having such a large amount of empty floor space left around. They're paying for a bigger building then they need.

Even so, I'm glad you now accept that these costs should and need to be accounted for out of that project's budget.

You are not renting new space for your production! So this unused area is a dead weight loss for the company anyway, but it's the cost of running the big project such as South Park.

One more time for good measure because apparently the brain cells are light in this one: "layoffs impacted the existing South Park team".

Here's what your example just said: We would rather pay for (and pay to heat and cool) copious amounts of office space that we don't use and don't need, instead of keeping staff.

Think about that for just a minute and you'll realise just how broke they are. Staff is by far their biggest cost - and staff are the first to go when they run out of cash. That's people. Developers who make the game. Empty office space doesn't make computer games. How are they going to make computer games when they can't even afford to keep the people?

Now you said "70 sqm" of free space. Ask yourself if you can fit 20 developers in that amount of space (the average Australian home of 4 people is 200+ sqm). You actually need at least 200 square feet per employee (about 18 sqm). We're not just talking desks here, we have to include things like "able to actually walk up to their desk and sit in it". So we're really looking at around 4,000 square feet of office space that we need for this team.

We know Obsidian are based in 8105 Irvine Center Drive. Floor space there is $2.55 FSG (Full Service Gross). That's per square foot, and with a figure of around a few dollars, should also be per month (if it was per year it'd be more in the double digits).

4,000 square feet * $2.55 FSG per month * 12 months = $122,400

Apparently Obsidian, a company with "just a few hundred thousand in spare cash", can afford to spend $122k per year on office space they're not using. Does that sound smart to you?

Even more fun, we know Obsidian are in Suite 200 which according to that page is 37,206 square feet (an entire floor) - or $1.1M per year...

Sorry, what spare cash did you reckon they had?

 

[Jasede]

I thought we already established years ago software development in the gaming sector is made on a basis like so:
You pitch a game, get some money and then pray to god you get a return on your investment. You use the profits to make a bigger game. If that game fails you're done.

We've had an article about this linked a couple years ago; they really do live from project to project (according to that article). Often all it takes is one miss for the machinery to crumble: Terra Nova is the classic example. It ain't news.


Obsidian, destroyed because they couldn't turn down the thermostat. What an ignoble fate.

 

[Infinitron]

Think about that for just a minute and you'll realise just how broke they are. Staff is by far their biggest cost - and staff are the first to go when they run out of cash. That's people. Developers who make the game. Empty office space doesn't make computer games. How are they going to make computer games when they can't even afford to keep the people?

You know how many people can't afford to move out of their parents' homes, but they all have iPhones? If paying your staff costs so much more than making a game on Kickstarter, then you aren't really losing much by keeping some amount of cash on the side to help make a game. It's not going to help pay your staff for long, after all.

 

[Jasede]

There's so many things you're not even considering.

How expensive is it to move into a smaller space?
Is the unused space heated at all?
Are people laid off because the money ran out or because they weren't needed at the time?
Are they laid off so they can "survive" until the next money is generated?

Lay offs are a normal part of running a business. It's like how you may cancel your cable TB for a few months because you couldn't afford to pay your student loans otherwise- but you know you'll get a raise by then and be okay, but you needed a bit of breathing room until then.

Big companies do this shit constantly to meet budget projections; look at Boeing, Google or any video game studio.

 

[Mrowak]

Think about that for just a minute and you'll realise just how broke they are. Staff is by far their biggest cost - and staff are the first to go when they run out of cash. That's people. Developers who make the game. Empty office space doesn't make computer games. How are they going to make computer games when they can't even afford to keep the people?

You know how many people can't afford to move out of their parents' homes, but they all have iPhones? If paying your staff costs so much more than making a game on Kickstarter, then you aren't really losing much by keeping some amount of cash on the side to help make a game. It's not going to help pay your staff for long, after all.

18 months - this is for how long they must endure. But it's you who constantly argues that they can extend that period for much longer. The question still stands - where is the fabled money they can use to reinforce the project?

 

[Infinitron]

Think about that for just a minute and you'll realise just how broke they are. Staff is by far their biggest cost - and staff are the first to go when they run out of cash. That's people. Developers who make the game. Empty office space doesn't make computer games. How are they going to make computer games when they can't even afford to keep the people?

You know how many people can't afford to move out of their parents' homes, but they all have iPhones? If paying your staff costs so much more than making a game on Kickstarter, then you aren't really losing much by keeping some amount of cash on the side to help make a game. It's not going to help pay your staff for long, after all.

18 months - this is for how long they must endure. But it's you who constantly argues that they can extend that period for much longer. The question still stands - where is the fabled money they can use to reinforce the project?

Let me be clear - I'm not arguing that they in fact have extra money. I just don't think it's outside the realm of possibility.

Either way we have no way of knowing.

 

[J_C]

You guys are great. Seriously.

1. What happens if during development, they see that they have to throw a few hundred thousand into the project.
- It means they fucked up. And if they fucked that up, they really fucked up.

That means that they have to put 100.000 to a game which will yield them a better game which will bring them higher profit. Why? What is the alternative? Cancel the game when it is 99% done? To lose everything? I think they will gladly put 100K into the money from their own reserves.

2. They will use their own money, not just the one from the kickstarter.
- Obsidian don't have their own money. If they did, they wouldn't need to do a KickStarter. Remember, the original budget for this project was $1M (10% would've gone on fees). Obsidian didn't even have enough for a $1M project. They are a game studio with "50 - 200 employees". 50 to 200 employees = annual employee costs of anywhere between $2M - $10M per annum plus the associated overheads - which would be a few hundred thousand to millions (20% - 30% of staff costs). That "couple of hundred thousand" reserve money? It'd keep their doors open and a roof over their heads. It wouldn't be able to be used on funding staff to keep the project alive.

Obsidian is a medium sized company which is in the RPG business for almost a decade. Do you really think that they don't have at least a few hundred thousand dollars in their bank accounts as reserves. Not having that would really be the sign of fucked up management. Companies which are in the business for a long time prepare for unexpected events, that's why they are keeping reserves. You can say that trololol, than why do they need the kickstarter money. That's because I never said that that is a huge ammount of cash. Again, a few 100K.

3. Saying that they don't have some additional fund on their account would mean that they don't have a solution if a temporary financial problem comes in.
- They don't. Again, in just March this year. "cancelled a next-gen project", "20-30 people have been laid off", "one day after he started work", "another just one week after he started", "layoffs impacted the existing South Park team", "It was around this time last year that Obsidian laid off a number of employees". Why is there this delusion that this time they'll magically put their own money in and yet twice now they've cancelled projects and laid off entire teams when funding ran out? Why not put "their own funding in" then? Here's an even scarier thought: What if they did? How much more of their own funding do you think they have left now?

You still don't understand. After a AAA project is cancelled, they would need millions to keep those 20-30 peopole at Obsidian. Those few 100K reserve wouldn't save them. But it could be partly used for PE IF THE RELEASE OF THE GAME DEPENDS ON IT.

4. I'm not saying that they have millions in their stash (although even that is possible)
- No. It is NOT possible. Why on EARTH would it be possible - when they've just asked for a measly $1M to do P:E? What, it was to top up Feargus' personal slush-fund? "Oh hey guys, we've got millions in our stash but uh, give us more cash!". If anything, that only makes things worse.

Ok, I admit that they might not have millions.

 

[crafthack]

It prob depends on what the plans of Obsidian are long-term, do they still want to keep pitching to publishers for bug budgets and keep the big staff, or do they want to stick with a small team and make indie games, it seems what you guys are saying it would be quite a juggle for them to do both, try and be big and small at the same time because the indie business model is completely diff from the one the are currently organized under

 

[l3loodAngel]

Let me illustrate with a simple example. Your company X is renting floor space to run a company. It rents two floors in the building and it has 70 sq meters of leftover space that the company can't utilize. This area must be cooled/heated, paid for and can't be rented.

1. You still live with your parents, don't you? Put in other words: You've never paid an electricity bill.

2. Because you just said it: This area must be cooled / heated. And yet when you do electricity costs later: "Electricity should costs around 50$ a month for PC". Cooling and heating is by far the single biggest electricity expense. It's why your parents don't turn the air-conditioner on all the time even though it's hot or why the heater isn't always on. We aren't just talking about running the PC here.

3. Heating and cooling that empty floor space is a huge cost. Your example is only a sign of financial mismanagement and incompetence. It means they're wasting money by having such a large amount of empty floor space left around. They're paying for a bigger building then they need.

Even so, I'm glad you now accept that these costs should and need to be accounted for out of that project's budget.

1. Did I bruise your ego or something?
2. Not all countries use heating by electricity since it is one of the most expensive sources of heating. But you do know that. If you rent 100 sq meters, but you use up only 80 do you think that you won't have to heat/cool the place? A magic wall will separate heat/conditioning from coming to that unused space. 50$ should be the cost of electricity or direct production costs and ONLY for a single PC electricity usage.
3. There can be plenty of situations where unused office space is unavoidable. Besides moving with all the infrastructure, could be very costly and have a huge production downtime.

You are not renting new space for your production! So this unused area is a dead weight loss for the company anyway, but it's the cost of running the big project such as South Park.

1. One more time for good measure because apparently the brain cells are light in this one: "layoffs impacted the existing South Park team".

2. Here's what your example just said: We would rather pay for (and pay to heat and cool) copious amounts of office space that we don't use and don't need, instead of keeping staff.

3. Think about that for just a minute and you'll realise just how broke they are. Staff is by far their biggest cost - and staff are the first to go when they run out of cash. That's people. Developers who make the game. Empty office space doesn't make computer games. How are they going to make computer games when they can't even afford to keep the people?

4. Now you said "70 sqm" of free space. Ask yourself if you can fit 20 developers in that amount of space (the average Australian home of 4 people is 200+ sqm). You actually need at least 200 square feet per employee (about 18 sqm). We're not just talking desks here, we have to include things like "able to actually walk up to their desk and sit in it". So we're really looking at around 4,000 square feet of office space that we need for this team.

5. We know Obsidian are based in 8105 Irvine Center Drive. Floor space there is $2.55 FSG (Full Service Gross). That's per square foot, and with a figure of around a few dollars, should also be per month (if it was per year it'd be more in the double digits).

4,000 square feet * $2.55 FSG per month * 12 months = $122,400

6. Apparently Obsidian, a company with "just a few hundred thousand in spare cash", can afford to spend $122k per year on office space they're not using. Does that sound smart to you?

7. Even more fun, we know Obsidian are in Suite 200 which according to that page is 37,206 square feet (an entire floor) - or $1.1M per year...

8. Sorry, what spare cash did you reckon they had?

1. Your point is?
2. It can be logical. For example you can't fit in one floor, so you need a second one. But you can't fully populate it. So you have to pay for space even if it's not fully utilized.
3. OK!
4. There are people living in even larger homes so what's your point? Does this means that a person or an employee needs so much space? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...RedBalloon1.jpg/240px-OpenPlanRedBalloon1.jpg . Or do you think that people actually live in those 50 sqm?
5. Pointless calculation.
6. It depends on the situation in the market and in the company. How much would relocating cost? Is there a good place to relocate to, that is also cheaper? It doesn't make sense to pay for a lot of free space, but for a little? Relocating is also money and a good place is hard to find. So they might be renting the place until they go bust or break through. Again if they would go bust, they would go bust, because they don't have customers and not because of expensive rent.
7. The question is: Can they rent less or they have to relocate?
8. It was my guess not reliable information.

 

[Brother None]

It prob depends on what the plans of Obsidian are long-term, do they still want to keep pitching to publishers for bug budgets and keep the big staff, or do they want to stick with a small team and make indie games, it seems what you guys are saying it would be quite a juggle for them to do both, try and be big and small at the same time because the indie business model is completely diff from the one the are currently organized under

I really don't think Obsidian is going away from publishers. Same for Double Fine. For them, these are fun little side-ventures. inXile might, but inXile's the smallest studio out of the lot and best set-up in amount of IPs they own (they own some IPs that would surprise you guys) and existing revenue streams.

And yes, it is a tricky model. I've personally always felt Obsidian wanted to be too big, but in some ways it's the only plausible model. As an independent (as in not-publisher owned studio), you can't easily step from one project to the next in a sequential fashion. You have to run multiple projects simultaneously or you become too dependent on the existence of one, plus the transition faze can be hard. So Obsidian's situation kinda sucks but I dunno if they ever had a lot of other options. And like others here, I honestly doubt they have much of a contingency fund for Eternity (outside of its Kickstarter-defined budget), but who knows, maybe they'll surprise us.

 

[Black_Willow]

DU, what makes you so certain they didn't have $1M? Maybe they asked for this much because:
a) They had almost enough money to start the project an thought "Hey, only one milion more and we're good to go."
b) They asked for a smaller sum because they were afraid about not reaching the goal (yeah, they got $4M, but for some people getting a meager $250K is far too much )

 

[Tigranes]

BN is right - from the beginning, Obsidian was set up to try and become big, because at the moment, it's very difficult to get to a smallish-medium size and stay there long term. There is a big difference between a company of 30 trying to stay that way and one that is looking to scale up to 50, 70, 100 as fast as possible. Troika tried, afaik, keep things as small as possible, but I think it was a very difficult proposition precisely at a time when 3D was really ballooning all the production costs / scales, indie had not really come into the scene yet, etc. Obsidian's plan from the very start was get to 100 employees or thereabouts and have 2.5 projects going.

Sure, the problem is that one thing fucking up, liked a cancelled project or missing Metacritic scores, can fuck you over really bad. (Speaking generally, something like Aliens + FNV Metacritic could kill a Obsidian-size developer outright if it came at a bad time, etc.) But if you were smaller, then it's not like those risks get any smaller - I really think the decision to do TOEE in the first place, though Troika had good reasons, was a decision that really put them in the shits business model / investor attractability wise.

On the whole I don't really have doubts about the financial plan, but I do think the amount of things they promised (and W2/DF/etc too) will give them plenty of little headaches and little $-drains, e.g. the documentary.

 

[Infinitron]

but I think it was a very difficult proposition precisely at a time when 3D was really ballooning all the production costs / scales, indie had not really come into the scene yet, etc.

Not to mention digital distribution.

 

[Haba]

- Obsidian don't have their own money. If they did, they wouldn't need to do a KickStarter.

4. I'm not saying that they have millions in their stash (although even that is possible)
- No. It is NOT possible. Why on EARTH would it be possible - when they've just asked for a measly $1M to do P:E? What, it was to top up Feargus' personal slush-fund? "Oh hey guys, we've got millions in our stash but uh, give us more cash!". If anything, that only makes things worse.

Stop for a moment and think about it. If you still don't get it... don't try running a business.

"Why ask for a zero risk investment with no interest and reputation as the only collateral"

3. Saying that they don't have some additional fund on their account would mean that they don't have a solution if a temporary financial problem comes in.- They don't. Again, in just March this year. "cancelled a next-gen project", "20-30 people have been laid off", "one day after he started work", "another just one week after he started", "layoffs impacted the existing South Park team", "It was around this time last year that Obsidian laid off a number of employees". Why is there this delusion that this time they'll magically put their own money in and yet twice now they've cancelled projects and laid off entire teams when funding ran out?

"Hey guise, lets keep on working on this project that we have no IP rights on just because fuck."