Shadowrun Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut

[Jaesun]

The suit only has a +2 CHA bonus. I don't think the actual presence of wearing the suit does anything though (I don't think the engine CAN actually check to see if you are WEARING a certain item (I could be wrong about this however), it CAN check your mission items and see if you have something there). I think you just need the required etiquette for those conversation options.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

So how is it?

 

[almondblight]

Next he'll be a proponent for health regenerating to max after every battle; after all, who needs attrition?

Health attrition often sucks in non-roguelikes. If I remember right, the A Stitch in Time SRR mod did it decently, though.

 

[DeepOcean]

I tried many things on this mission but the outcome seems the same.

Spoiler

The elf always die.
The owner of the apartment always escape alive.
The alarm always ring.
The corporate check with the ork is more for flavour than anything useful.
The security check let you get the two guards on the ground floor together so you can eletrocute both at same time with the panel.
There is a mention of getting an authorization with management but there isn't an option to get one so I was forced to fry both guards on the ground floor.
There is an option of using a security console on the ground floor to get security to another place on the complex, don't have any idea if that has any real effect.

The clusterfuck that happens is hilarious and was fun but the run was kinda railroaded to get to an outcome.

 

[Blaine]

All right, I've run into my first aggravation with playing Very Hard during the MKVI mission.

Spoiler

There are shitloads of enemies in this one (with the biggest shitload of them bunkered down in front of the door on the way out), and several little fag riggers with large amounts of HP and armor poised to take control of the supertroll cyborg along the entire slog. On Very Hard, unless you save scum or get lucky, the extreme whiffing in this game on VH means you most likely won't be able to kill that decker until one or two turns after he takes control of the supertroll, even using the supertroll itself to attack the rigger as best you can. This in turn means you're forced to send your blind, bumbling "shadowrunners" out into the open to whiff just a little bit less versus that rigger, then get absolutely pelted by his five or six buddies. The alternative is to be killed by the supertroll because you played cautiously and spent almost all of two turns whiffing uselessly against that rigger.

This is most problematic near the very end, and that's the issue: There are several huge fights of escalating intensity in which you have no choice but to allow yourself to get ripped to shreds.

You can't bolt for the entrance either, since the shitload of security huddled in front of the elevator will no doubt ejaculate -AP grenades and then rip you to shreds. You have to slog through all of them, or at least some of them.

I have no doubt this is doable, with luck. Constantly getting hit by absolutely every single enemy attack while missing the majority of mine is absolutely infuriating, though. I have a strong feeling neither Roguey nor anyone else ITT actually played all the way through Dragonfall on Very Hard, or if they did, it was with a munchkin'd street samurai PC. This mission is literally about landing tons of damage accurately and quickly, and you really only get one such character unless you're also playing one yourself.

Then again, maybe there's an alternative solution I haven't found. Usually though, it's "You can only skip some combat if you're a Decker." That's understandable.

In other news though, it's clear that your average HBS forum retard plays on Normal, Director's Cut or no:

2-4 enemies per turn? What magical wonderland game are these assholes playing? I almost beat it on VH until they got (yet another) 30 DMG crit and took out my PC.

 

[xrm1]

So how is it?

Just checked, the suit just helps with the CHA checks.

All right, I've run into my first aggravation with playing Very Hard during the MKVI mission.
Then again, maybe there's an alternative solution I haven't found. Usually though, it's "You can only skip some combat if you're a Decker." That's understandable.

Decking just lets you skip one group out of 5 or so.

 

[Blaine]

Yeah, well, I'm sure I'll crack it tomorrow. For now, my jimmies are rustled. I have a extremely hard time believing "the game was balanced around Very Hard" after this one.

 

[Zetor]

Yeah, well, I'm sure I'll crack it tomorrow. For now, my jimmies are rustled. I have a extremely hard time believing "the game was balanced around Very Hard" after this one.

Which dev said that?

So the (new) Very Hard difficulty is RNG-driven and/or tedious/obnoxious... seems like par for the course for me, as in most other games (has anyone here played nuXCOM on the highest difficulty, f'rex?). I'm not sure why this is worth 3-4 pages of bitching, though. The solution is "don't play on VH if you aren't a masochist". There's a reason I started my playthrough on Hard instead of on VH once I read up on the changes -- if anything, VH in SRR/DF was stupidly easy before.

Anyway, enemy "cheats" I've noticed:

• unlimited medkits (I think the Man In A Suit outside of Billy's lab used about six or seven of these while I was slowly whiffing him to death on Very Hard, he was the last alive)
• unlimited grenades
• high chance to hit even at long range (and not with a sniper rifle) against a target behind cover

FWIW I have yet to see any enemy on Hard use more than two grenades and one medkit (which matches their loadout in the editor).

 

[Jaesun]

The clusterfuck that happens is hilarious and was fun but the run was kinda railroaded to get to an outcome.

I think the entire POINT of this entire scenario, is to basically show what always happens in Shadowrun. You DO everything by the book, and the rest should be a cakewalk...... but then shit happens. Nothing ever goes as planned. Ever. No matter how careful you try to be.

There is also the hint, as to what exactly it is you are hooking up to the computer (as demanded by the people hiring you), and if you follow that dialogue, no one actually knows what in the fuck you ARE actually hooking up. Though not having finished this scenario yet, I don't know it that is further explained.

This so far is one of the better parts of the game I have enjoyed so far. It's not just a simple run.

 

[Zetor]

My only problem with the lodge run is that it goes too 'dark' too soon. It would've worked better as the LAST job the lodge asked you to do, not the first... then again, I suppose that if you're OK with everything there, you'll be OK with everything else they ask of you later (and the only really morally-questionable job they give for you is on the MKVI mission)

 

[Blaine]

Which dev said that?

Roguey linked to a quote by some developer saying just that, though notably it may have been his personal opinion and was about the original SRR campaign, not necessarily Dragonfall and certainly not DC.

So the (new) Very Hard difficulty is RNG-driven and/or tedious/obnoxious... seems like par for the course for me, as in most other games (has anyone here played nuXCOM on the highest difficulty, f'rex?). I'm not sure why this is worth 3-4 pages of bitching, though. The solution is "don't play on VH if you aren't a masochist". There's a reason I started my playthrough on Hard instead of on VH once I read up on the changes -- if anything, VH in SRR/DF was stupidly easy before.

Well, that's the thing. Roguey thinks it's still SRR vanilla. That's just Roguey trying to get my goat by needling me about not having enough skillz, though, and is mainly just another example of him lashing out in non-PoE threads far more than usual recently ever since The Bumbling.

FWIW I have yet to see any enemy on Hard use more than two grenades and one medkit (which matches their loadout in the editor).

Well, maybe Man In A Suit had a full bar of medkits. He was a very tough nut to crack, and every time he was 3/4 of the way dead he'd chow down on another kit. Now THAT'S trolling. I'll check the editor later.

 

[Zetor]

Well, maybe Man In A Suit had a full bar of medkits. He was a very tough nut to crack, and every time he was 3/4 of the way dead he'd chow down on another kit. Now THAT'S trolling. I'll check the editor later.

I just checked in the editor, he's supposed to have one healthpack, one flashbang grenade and one frag grenade. If those are not getting consumed, this is either a bug with the new AI scripts (not checking that they have a resource before using it, though it's weird I didn't see it come up in my playthrough) or a VH-specific cheat for that special "haha fuck you" feeling.

 

[Blaine]

It's most definitely either a bug or a cheat. I can absolutely guarantee you I wasn't imagining things. I'd spend my 8-10 collective AP and hit him with like one sniper bullet, a few pistol/SMG shots, and/or an offensive spell per turn perhaps (very rarely more than 20 damage per turn and often less; he was also behind cover and had armor left). He'd then chow down on a medkit, shoot, and unerringly deal like 15 damage to one of my characters or another.

I could have just left through the nearby exit a few yards off or bumrushed him, but I felt I'd rather try to stay battened down in cover and duke it out that way.

It's been an extremely long time since I've experienced turbocheat megabullshit of this caliber. It's like I've found some bizarre 1990s shareware designed by a madman here.

 

[DeepOcean]

For me, they could get that plot of killing dragons to "save" the world and shove it right on the nearest garbage bin. The Lodge mission feels like shadowrun should feel, uncertainty, doubt, morally questionable things all the time, unpredictable things happening, enigmatic Johnsons, running on the dark, now THAT is the fun stuff. Honestly, if they did more missions like this but just more complex on the optional content and skill/Etiquette checks, it would be very, very good. It was really interesting, I was far more interested on the missions like the Lodge mission, the Pharma clean up and the MKVI mission where being a shadowrunner violated your sense of ethics and reminded you that being a shadowrunner is being a killer for hire and you are far away from being the traditional good guy than on that boring and crazy dragon hunter plot.

I understand why they chosen the most boring story as the main plot, there are alot of people that demand a straight up story and shadowrun for them is just some silly setting for them to jerk off on cyberpunk elves and other fantasy tropes, but an entire campaign done with you trying to unravel the motivations and goals of those who you work for and show you having to choose between money and morals appeal way more to me.

 

[Lujo]

I tried many things on this mission but the outcome seems the same.

Spoiler

The elf always die.
The owner of the apartment always escape alive.
The alarm always ring.
The corporate check with the ork is more for flavour than anything useful.
The security check let you get the two guards on the ground floor together so you can eletrocute both at same time with the panel.
There is a mention of getting an authorization with management but there isn't an option to get one so I was forced to fry both guards on the ground floor.
There is an option of using a security console on the ground floor to get security to another place on the complex, don't have any idea if that has any real effect.

The clusterfuck that happens is hilarious and was fun but the run was kinda railroaded to get to an outcome.

Nop, that's not right:

Spoiler

The alarm doesn't always ring. If you fry both guards after the security check and then use the terminal only the elf goes berserk, you deal with him and everythign else goes smoothly, and then you can run whichever way (either throught the U-Bahn shaft or the Suit room).

It is, however, VERY CONVOLUTED and also somewhat random. And the corporate check for the ork suit is so you can give him the drugs you can purchase outside to open up an escape route if you don't have decking.

What I was going at is that there are a few quest item which were probably supposed to be usable with the guy which gets a drop on you, but aren't.

 

[Gord]

Any mixed Chars were useless before I didn't read anything that indicated that would change.

I didn't really have issues with mixed characters on hard before.
Of course, it might depend on what type of hybrid you roll with, but my ranged Street Samurai had some chi casting to beef him up a bit - worked without a hitch.
My mage also had some ranged combat - no problem either, although ranged turned out useless around halfway through, since at that point magic just became much more interesting and effective.

My Adept with melee weapons is actually a rather pure character - only major changes are some few points in throwing, which I only spend after the 1st mission and focusing more on melee weapons for improved damage range and -AP abilities. The Adepts defensive abilities are still synergizing nicely, as are some of his offensive abilities.

Low to-hit rates aside, the biggest problem you face with melee chars in the DC seems to be the higher damage you take when out of cover (which you will be quite often, after all).

Btw. - not complaining, it's a good change if you ask me, I'm merely telling about my observations.

 

[Zetor]

If a decker with rifle skills and decent CHA / some biotech counts as a hybrid, then my character's doing just fine on Hard. Since he only has quickness/ranged/rifle around 6, he can't equip the best gun (yet -- I'm halfway through the APEX run currently), but he definitely holds his own even if he isn't the killing machine Eiger and Glory are (especially Glory, at least on unarmored targets).

 

[Ulminati]

I ran with a decker but upped charisma a bit to get etiquettes. Since I already had the CHA, I dipped into conjuration (but not spirit summoning). Acid bolts are more fun than pistols anyway. And the buffs are pretty solid for turning Cyberwaifu into a murder machine.

I wanted to go into rigging as well, but I don't think I'll have enough inventory space for deck+drones+acid bolt. And until I get 3AP/turn, I can't have drones active and still cast haste.

 

[Blaine]

Acid bolts with low CHA and Conjuring?

Are you enjoying that 10% chance to hit while you're so close you can rub your crotch on the target's buttocks? Midgame on VH, with 8 CHA and 6 Conjuring, my stupid bumbling asshole of a Shaman misses with 2 AP worth of Acid Bolt IIIs on a regular basis.

 

[WhiteGuts]

I started with a decker + rifles. Played one hour yesterday, it's good. I like how characters' reactions are described in text too, it's an elegant solution to the absence of visual clues.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Does anyone know about how much the hit-rates change in the different difficulty settings anyway? Anyone tried?

 

[dryan]

Does anyone know about how much the hit-rates change in the different difficulty settings anyway? Anyone tried?

I just did a couple of test characters on Hard (one mage and one street sam melee). I don't remember the numbers, but I was hitting so often that I went back to Very Hard because it wasn't fair to the enemies.

Totally unrelated question: Does anyone know if you can edit a file to change your character name? I made a typo in mine and I'm OCD'ing like crazy. And I don't want to run Harfeld Manor again.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Does anyone know about how much the hit-rates change in the different difficulty settings anyway? Anyone tried?

I just did a couple of test characters on Hard (one mage and one street sam melee). I don't remember the numbers, but I was hitting so often that I went back to Very Hard because it wasn't fair to the enemies.

Meh, it seems they kinda screwed up the difficulty settings again, then. I may try to go through my next run twice on both hard and very hard to see how I feel about this.

Other than that though, I have to say that I really enjoy the game a lot so far.

 

[Roguey]

Does anyone know if that Luca Duerr character was modeled after a developer/backer/family/friend? His face looks a bit more detailed than most of the generic portrait. Also, his weak jaw and that soft baby fat makes him stick out in the dark cyberpunk setting.

The filename of his portrait doesn't list him as a backer, though he could be a dev or someone a dev knows, like Aljernon.

I have no doubt this is doable, with luck. Constantly getting hit by absolutely every single enemy attack while missing the majority of mine is absolutely infuriating, though. I have a strong feeling neither Roguey nor anyone else ITT actually played all the way through Dragonfall on Very Hard, or if they did, it was with a munchkin'd street samurai PC. This mission is literally about landing tons of damage accurately and quickly, and you really only get one such character unless you're also playing one yourself.

Either they really upped the difficulty or you're extraordinarily bad because that mission was a breeze (though my PC died in the first post-cyberzombie fight, using up a trauma patch). Cyberzombie is OP as hell, I was killing multiple persons per round with his giant axe.

 

[Coriolanus]

Played it on Very Hard with a gimped MC (melee with shamanism, shamanism was a waste of skill points in the end) and refused to use Eiger (so my party was p. much all close range), only had real trouble in the last fight as I did the wrong thing - tried to hack the terminals instead of just bum-rushing the drekker.

Use Grenades. They are fantastic. I always bought tons, they are cheap and super-effective. Too bad the inventory space is very limited so I couldn't viably carry more than 3 per character per mission.

Abuse enemy AI. Crouch your party around the corner and kill them one by one. Abuse the fog of war.

This makes me want to replay it, actually...