Development Info Scars Of War Will Be Politically Correct

[Sceptic]

I laugh at your solitaria and raise you a Cestoidea.

 

[sheek]

Game sounds like it will suck anyway

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I am disturbed because they see themselves as lesser even in fantasy worlds. In my fantasy worlds I'm quite capable of imagining myself lifting buses, should I feel like it.

Your fantasy world is a seriously weird place.

I believe that stat bonii and penalties are basically unnecessary in most RPGs, because, frankly, adventurers are freaks. Just look at D&D: What kind of strength penalty would you assign to a female human? Being a halfling is only a -2, and while a human female is clearly not as physically strong as a human male, she is most likely much stronger than a halfling. Yet only a single point's worth of granularity separates a human from a halfling.

In AD&D a -1 penalty to strength, would mean losing the percentage strength bonus and a strongest female character having 2 times lesser lifting power than the strongest male.

I'm all for a strength boost and a charisma penalty on that.

That all depends on what 'Charisma' is. I couldn't see many people trash talking her while she was around, or telling her she was wrong.

Would be a brave man

To be honest, she looks pretty charismatic. She would have a 'Beauty' penalty, though.

Isn't this all a bit moot when talking about fantasy? Once we're talking about a world where people shoot fireballs out of their hands and individuals take on legions (yes, I'm not the biggest fan of fantasy genres either...) we're basically saying 'this is an alternate universe where biology doesn't work in quite the same way'.

Which would mean that females would have to look much more manly. Anyway, getting a blessing or a magic item to get the stats that would fit the character's ambition could be a pretty interesting quest for female characters.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

To be honest, she looks pretty charismatic. She would have a 'Beauty' penalty, though.

Beauty is kind of a retarded stat since it manages to be even less quantifiable than the others, which is amazing since those include Luck, really

 

[sheek]

Is there an estimated release date?

 

[BethesdaLove]

I have met only one ( ONE! ) woman in my whole life that could kick my ass anytime. My young judo teacher at school.
And right now I prolly could kick her ass too. *manly*

 

[Alex]

As you say, I don't think it's a good fit for my game unless I were going to focus on gender differences, which I'm not. It certainly could work, and I understand your point, but I think there is a sort of trade-off. Some players might see gender difference as interesting opportunities for characterization, others might see them as simply limiting their choices based on gender. You can argue that there is nothing preventing females from playing weaker fighters, but no one likes to feel 'second best'.

I understand. My post was just trying to point out what, I understand, was Lyric Suite's post. I know this is the common codex behavior, but people were arguing against strawmen, not what people really meant (well... strawmen and stuff that is best left to GD). Lyric Suite, for example, saw your eagerness to disregard reality as a lack of understanding of what role internal logic should play in the game and people then proceeded to disregard Suite's comment because they saw that as chauvinistic.

Also, I don't think it's as fun, conceptually, for women. Women get to live lives in society where their gender is generally seen as somewhat inferior. If they're looking for a bit of escapism and run into the fact that if they want to make a female Knight, they have to accept that it probably won't be as good as a male warrior, that design could be aggravating for them, rather than an opportunity for interesting characterization. I think my ex-gf's response shows that it's so ingrained in society that even women themselves, when seeking escapist retreats, bring that baggage with them. Which is why I was so horrified that my ex said, without thinking, "I don't want to play the girl", when there was no reason to assume the female char in L4D was in any way deficient. I'm happy for women to have different experiences in SoW, but I don't them to be considered 'second best' for certain character builds.

In some cases it can be interesting to explore gender differences, but I don't think it's appropriate for zombie-shooter escapism. And I've decided it isn't what SoW is about, so it's purposefully excluded from my design.

No problem with that at all. I would argue that you could make different approaches to different sexes to a "build", without one being superior to the other, but rather different. For a good example of that, see the Ogre Battle series. But I am just pointing this out because I like to discuss game design, not because I think this is a better option for your game.

 

[Dragula]

What a bunch of white knighting.

 

[Monkeysphere]

ITT : ppl who never had sex with a woman their entire lives.

 

[FeelTheRads]

ITT : ppl who never had sex with a woman their entire lives.

Once you have sex you realize women are just as strong as men.

 

[Alex]

I was going to ask you people to keep this trolling to GD, but then I realized it is unlikely there is anything on topic left to discuss. Unless people have any good ideas for sexually dependent traits to give Gareth (myself, I can only think of cultural ones, but Naked Ninja will know about what is suitable for his game better than anyone else in that area).

 

[Clockwork Knight]

ITT : ppl who never had sex with a woman their entire lives.

Once you have sex you realize women are just as strong as men.

Hey, leave noodle-arms alone. He already gets enough beatings at home.

 

[hiver]

For every guy i know i could find a woman who could kick his ass.

No you wouldn't. Stop the lying plz.

you were saying?

Well, the strongest man is stronger than the strongest woman, and the average man is stronger than the average woman. So I'd have to agree there's a real life "strength penalty" for women.

there is no such thing as a strongest man, or woman.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Christ, where are you people pulling these out of?


EDIT:

OH YEAH INSERTA PICTAR OF MUSCULAR WOMAN TO PROOF THAT WOMAN ARE JUST AS STRONG AS MENS!



Epic biology failure.

 

[hiver]

Im actually saying its individual matter dear moron, there is no "women" or "men".

Anyway, that woman can take you and Lyric Suite together and send you both to intensive care without tiring much. For example.

 

[Takeda Kenshi]

Im actually saying its individual matter dear moron, there is no "women" or "men".

Anyway, that woman can take you and Lyric Suite together and send you both to intensive care without tiring much. For example.

Alright, that's fine and dandy. Now show me a picture of a woman who could beat up Brock Lesnar.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Im actually saying its individual matter dear moron, there is no "women" or "men".

Kinda like everybody is a woman face down and lights off.

I'm sure you heard generalizing is a bad and ugly thing to do, but you know... generally women are weaker than men. Very simple fact. The fact that some women are stronger than some men is about as relevant as the fact that some kids in Africa are not hungry.

and send you both to intensive care

We used to talk like that in primary school or so... it's kiddie stuff, you know?

 

[hiver]

She can beat you up. Thats enough.

 

[bobo_monkey]

WTF is it with women. Chainmail bikinis are at least +1AC, if they complain too much let them have nipple caps. I dont think fractional AC rounds up does it?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

She can beat you up. Thats enough.

omg she can beat up a random internet nerd

Also, try being original in your PC bullshit, plz

 

[waywardOne]

If you want to be really specific, you should bitch about the fact that attributes can't change over time - ie, you're stuck with whatever strength you "rolled" on birth.

1st ed d&d would give bonuses and penalties to rolled stats based on age, e.g. -1 INT/+1 STR at the youngest playable age or +1 WIS/-1 CON at the oldest. i think lives were divided into 5ths with only the middle 3rd as rolled. of course, this was also back when a Haste spell knocked a year off your life expectancy.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Anyway, that woman can take you and Lyric Suite together and send you both to intensive care without tiring much. For example.

So, a well trained female professional fighter without a male strength bonus is stronger than an untrained nerd with a male strength bonus. It doesn't have anything to do with the topic, though.

 

[Satori (original)]

There is no ostensible difference in muscle growth and muscle strength between men and women* when training so why is there a disparity in the maximum speed and stength of the best male and the best female unless there is a *base difference*. And that difference is oestrogen and testosterone.

*http://www.jaxtrainer.com/m-vs-w.html

The effect of oestrogen on muscle development was determined in 8 muscles (biceps brachii, triceps brachii, common digital extensor, soleus, superficial digital flexor, cranial tibialis, gastrocnemius and long digital extensor muscles of sexually immature male and female mice. Each mouse was killed at a mature age of 16 weeks. The muscle development as determined by increase in muscle weight was significantly smaller in muscles of oestrogen-treated male and oestrogen-treated female mice as compared to the muscles of normal male and normal female mice. The muscles of normal male mice were very significantly larger than those of normal female mice. There was, on the other hand, no significant difference between the muscle mass of oestrogen-treated male and oestrogen-treated female mice. This indicated that the smaller mass of normal female mice when compared to normal male mice was connected with inhibitory effect of oestrogen on the muscle development of female mice.

 

[Hamster]

VS

Does anyone seriously think that

A) Conan can't beat Xena in strength?

Yes.

 

[Azrael the cat]

VS

Does anyone seriously think that

A) Conan can't beat Xena in strength?

Yes.

Xena would pwn that red-headed fuck. He wasn't even that funny on the Tonight Show.

OH the OTHER Conan.

Actually Xena would still be stronger. Conan is a mortal human. Xena is a demigod who was originally a villain from Hercules mythology, and who could go toe to toe with Hercules in a one-on-one melee fight at his peak. Keep in mind that Hercules wasn't supposed to be an incredibly strong pure human either - he got his strength from having a deity as either his father or granddaddy (Zeus as I recall), and so was massively stronger than any human was supposed to be capable of.

Demigod Hercules villain > Human hero. It's like trying to argue that Bane could smack down Superman in a fist fight, just because he's an uber strong guy in Batman's end of the woods. They're playing in different leagues.