Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Preview RPG Codex Preview: Blackguards

Discussion in 'RPG Codex News & Content Comments' started by Crooked Bee, Nov 13, 2013.

  1. Grunker RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Grunker
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    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera
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    Io-Daedalic, could you talk a bit about my pet peeve, documentation? As in, do you plan to expand heavily on documenation of the rules you use in the game in contrast to the somewhat lacking documenation you have in the early access build, or are you overall satisfied with the level of documentation?
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  2. Io-Daedalic Educated

    Io-Daedalic
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    For example, in the early stages the team evaluated if an open travelling system with resting in the wild (as opposed to fixed routes and waypoints as it is now) was possible, then decided against such a system to be able to focus on fixed battles and balacing the game around them. While such a system probably sounds fun, it's almost always better to focus on few things and really make them work well instead of throw it all in the game and not have anything polished at all.

    No, we know there is a lack of explanation to the underlying ruleset at the moment. Players have told us so again and again. I cannot tell you at this point what it's going to look like in the future, but the designers are discussing ways to explain things better at the moment. The first things we'll improve are most likely the tutorial hints.
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  3. Io-Daedalic Educated

    Io-Daedalic
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    The dev team wanted to further elaborate on your question a bit :). Thus the following message is not written by me, but rather written by the devs themselves:


    Thanks to RPG Codex for all the input from the “Leader of Rogues”
    Right from the start we made a decision in regards to the tactical part of the game; let’s say this was the easiest part. We wanted to stick as close to the P&P rules as we could but make it enjoyable to all groups of players even those never played a tactical game or RPG.
    The biggest part was to create something new and having no clue if the people will like it at the end. The main focus was on creating a game that will make fun at all; therefore we made a lot of decisions during the production linked to that issue which had a massive impact at all

    For example, at first we created the cities to be walkable and fully 3d as in regular RPGs, but unfortunately it slowed down the whole game a lot and we needed to find a different way doing the same without breaking the fun. It was not our intention to add more useless game time to the game because you need to run from one point to another so we came up with the version which is now inside of the game.
    Pretty same for the world map, we started with a full 3D map/world it looked great, but we discovered a lot of problems linked to it. This time is was more technical problems linked to the engine.
    We also first liked the idea to have random encounters on top to the unique battle maps on the world map. It was a great idea, we thought but it turned to be bad as we tested it in real. The game feeling change from unique appeal to be repetitive which not our intention was so we dropped this feature as well.
    So we had also the great idea to bring in flanking, so we tried to find a good way for it to bring it in. As we had finished the options we learned we had built something like a “conga line of death”. What on paper looked like a great idea turn out to be a nightmare in our game. In general the problem was linked to the hexes and of course the way we can move the chars or the enemy could move inside of the game. After three more attempts to change it into something good we decided to deactivate the option until we will find a real solution for the problem.
    In regards to the GUI we had a few iterations with total freedom in char creation and char development for the player which lead to a total mess for our test players. They were overwhelmed by the freedom and the options they had until we came to the one which is the game, right now. This is mainly the reason for the missing documentation because we are now in the situation to write tutorials and also more documented things because we finished the Gui right before the Early Access approach. Also due to the feedback we learned a lot what should be documented because after 2,5 years it’s more like running around with horse blinkers.

    But honestly spoken creativity and budget are two different things. We had/have tons of ideas that not made it into the game but we have them ready for whatever comes next.
    There are a lot of things more to tell but maybe we will make a postmortem when the game has been finished so you can see more clearly what we tried and why something’s are not in as well.

    So I am of to work now to get solutions to work, we gathered from the communities feedback.

    Sincerely
    The Leader of Rogues
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
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  4. Grunker RPG Codex Staff Patron

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    I'd rather have indepth help screens than tutorial hints personally, but it's good to know that you're aware of it and working on solutions that work for you!

    Also, if you don't know it, I will suggest taking a look at Knights of the Chalice, possibly the best documented modern RPG. It uses hyperlinked help-screens kind of like an ingame version of the game's own Wikipedia.
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  5. Crooked Bee Nyadmin Patron

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    Codex 2014 MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    :(

    Oh well, can't have it all.

    P.S. Thanks a lot for the response!
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  6. clemens Learned Patron

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    Codex 2014 Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera
    I really like your approach and I think you've realised it well. From what I've seen from the early access content, character sheets & evolution are very satisfying. It does feel like a p&p rpg.

    :love:
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  7. Jack Dandy Savant

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    The game sounds like it's in good hands. Thank you for the responses, Daedalic team. Although I'm a total sucker for open-world\dungeon exploration , I understand your motivation for removing them from the game. I completely agree that for this sort of game, combat quality should have a bigger priority.

    As for the whole "Congaline of death" flanking thing, it sounds like this kind of problem can be fixed with an attack of opportunity system. I know it worked great in Expeditions Conquistador, and I understand that one was basically watered down 4E D&D combat.
    I have no idea about how Dark Eye combat works- are AoOs a part of it?

    But I guess it's too late to put any of that in now, so no matter. I can't wait to play through the entire game. I wish I could give you more feedback about it, but I'd rather wait until I have a full quality game in my hands, that I can really get into. Still bought it for the neat discount, tho.
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  8. Smashing Axe Cipher Patron

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    There's an AoO combat talent available as an option, although I haven't yet encountered a trainer that teaches it.
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  9. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

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    Next time change the test players rather than the game. Test players who can't actually play games are not good test players.
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  10. Smashing Axe Cipher Patron

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    Yeah, I think they should have gone the way Drakensang did and offer several preset defaults, with the option to change stats in "advanced" mode. It's a false dichotomy between complexity and simplicity.
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  11. felipepepe Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

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    AoO are in the game, as a talent.

    Good to know this, and that you guys are prepared for the masses crying about how "Takate is Impossible!!!", that is unfair not to rest between fights and all that. Keep on the good work guys!
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  12. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite Sawyerist Sawyer's Bride No Fun Allowed

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    Hardly anyone takes defaults when the option to make your own character is available. I believe they made the right call here.
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  13. clemens Learned Patron

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    Codex 2014 Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera
    I guess we would be surprised. I've seen a "youtuber" calling the fact that you have only one ressource to spend to increase your various attributes, talents and skills "very confusing", in contrast to have points already spread between attributes and talents when you level up, like in many other rpgs. He was also lamenting about the fact that this system, while giving you more freedom, could result in a failed build if you didn't bother researching where you should spend your points. True story. I wonder why those types even bother playing rpgs in the first place...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laHUwoPc9M4

    Also, I find it very ironic that he would call himself "force strategy gaming"...
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  14. Mikayel Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Checked the video; guy seems pretty much a goober.

    Complaints about the way looting items works. Ugh.

    I'm so stoked for this game.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
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  15. Chaotic_Heretic Cipher Shitposter

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    Io-Daedalic
    Good to know you guus have your priorities right. Focusing on delivering a polished product in few aspects is wise.

    I second the suggestion to look at KotC for suggestions for in-game documentation. Most of us aren't very familiar with TDE 4th ed. ruleset.
    Could you keep an option of unlocking the character creation after selecting the archtype? Fine tuning a various builds would definifely add replay value. Could add pop-up recommendations for players like your testers to stick with default archetype build.
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  16. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite Sawyerist Sawyer's Bride No Fun Allowed

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    Giving everyone one free respec and then additional respecs at a nontrivial cost could possibly be beneficial to everyone. Dunno if that's feasible at this point in time.
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  17. Niektory Arcane Patron

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    No.
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  18. Crooked Bee Nyadmin Patron

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    Codex 2014 MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    I don't think they should change anything about character creation at this point. Not anything substantial, at least.

    Yes, it sucks that the testers were dumb like that, but adding free-form character creation would just require too much testing/rebalancing. The game seems to be a lot of fun as it is anyway.

    Perhaps they could do it in a sequel/expansion if this one sells well.
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  19. Chaotic_Heretic Cipher Shitposter

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    Attempting to mondblut Blackguards, will be a real joy.

    And I don't mean fully free form Char gen like TDE 4th Ed. That will be kinda crazy at this point.

    Most Non-combat Talents, Special Abilities and all advantages/disadvantages not linked to profession are not implemented. And understandably so, to focus on delivering a Polished game.

    The character generation in PnP is based on GP. After selecting an Archetype, An option could be re-introduced for customization, and within the min-max limits of profession/race/culture (last two are default) they could simply allow to increase/reduce few talents/special abilities/spells to fine tune it.

    Like Skeletons are immune to piercing/slashing. And Fencing Weapons while having good AT, cannot parry chained/blunt 2h weapons and so on. And to build a gish, buffing spells are more effective for the consecutive battles that test attrition etc.
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  20. Io-Daedalic Educated

    Io-Daedalic
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    The issue of a less restrictive character creation came up on the Steam boards as well and we know it is a much requested feature. Our team is looking into ways to make this possible, though I cannot say what it's going to look like in the future. Or when a change will be implemented.
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  21. felipepepe Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    Bros, Chapter 2 of the game is out now.

    This Chapter abandons the kiddy gloves and starts the trully hard battles, so prepare for some fun and for MASSIVE butthurt on Steam forums.
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  22. abnaxus Arcane

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    Is Altoum part of the gameworld?
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  23. felipepepe Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

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    No, unless they change world maps later in the game (I doubt it). You stay mostly around Neetha, Drol and Mengbilla.
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  24. Io-Daedalic Educated

    Io-Daedalic
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    Thanks for announcing it here :).

    No, Altoum won't be part of the gameworld.
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  25. Smashing Axe Cipher Patron

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    Nice to see that special staves have actual effects now. +1 Astral regeneration should make very long fights more viable for a purely magic focused character.
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