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Codex Interview RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone at Digital Dragons 2016

JustMyOnion

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Jul 3, 2015
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97
I've thrown 250 dollars at Obsidian just for seeing a modern Avellone RPG. He didn't really work on anything else by the time so it was just logical that he had a big role in it. I don't think I would've done it if I knew how small his role actually was. And it's not like I hate PoE, I just... "forgot" to play it after a while.
 

Kev Inkline

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A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I backed PoE for $77 and despite what I recognize now as some glaring mistakes (misuse of MCA, pandering to SJWs), I had a great time with the game. It is the best RTwP released since P:ST.
This, at least the having fun part.

Even knowing everything that has ensued ever since the first KS announcement, I would still have backed this project. Not with the $115 I originally did though, but let's say, perhaps with the minimum pledge.

Oh, and for the umpteenth time: those backer personal history infodumps. :(
 
Joined
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growing acknowledgment that Obsidian was promoting SJW hiring policies

Everything else aside, what has this got to do with anything?

I can only speak for myself. I think this is important because (1) it is unfair to hire someone only based on inclusiveness policies over meritocracy; (2) increases the chances of shitty writing inspired by political agendas in games – see the last BG rip-off; (3) it sets a bad example for other studios. Obsidian hired Carrie Patel to be a narrative designer while they are cutting Chris Avellone’s work - which ironically also sounds like a broken record for SJW idiocy. Josh Sawyer seems like an egomaniac loon who only cares about activism and it’s completely disconnected from genuine cRPGs.

You genuinely think that they knowingly would hire anyone with shortcoming qualifications simply out of a political leaning? Not that it doesn't happen in corporate life but at Obsidian? That they would settle with inferior talent and experience? Do you have any evidence to the effect? I don't know who they hired or what, though I remember they "had to" lay off pretty good people a bunch of times in the past. Or are you flat out refusing that people hired out of a preference for inclusiveness can otherwise be equals -if not betters- where the latter ends up as the reason for the former? Because there is an awful lot of talented, skilled and deserving people who are discriminated against and pushed out of professional life for bullshit reasons. Acknowledging that doesn't net anybody with "incloosive" jokes, of course.

As for shitty writing, Obsidian already provides heaps of it so I am not sure what it is you are complaining. Their shitty writing is a few grades above the next best stuff, of course, but still.

And Sawyer; not going into the inside politics with Avellone and others but from here, it looks like he's one of the major forces keeping the whole company running together, for good or for worse, regardless of how much I personally dislike his design sensibilities. Then again, he was the guy who salvaged the sinking ship that was IWD2, he was the lead designer of NV, a brilliant game as well as the only great Obsidian game since MotB and also the lead guy on their pandering KS game that literally bought and secured the company's future, again, regardless of what anybody thinks of the game. So, the facts speaking for themselves, I don't think his activism has had any negative effect on the company or the games he was involved with.

Consequently, to pull any argument over Sawyer away from his design sensibilities and into his politics is derailing.

On a more personal note, merely to breathe is political when there are so many willing to take even that from you for one bullshit reason or another. So it is ridiculous to worry about it from the position of somebody who is comfortable enough to have no need to raise a voice or to acknowledge one another's.
 

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
The input device is the driving force behind every design decision in such games. That's like saying the ingredients of food aren't indicative of its quality nor have they bearing on your enjoyment on it. It means you're a pig.

How do you explain classic RPGs like the Wizardry series being available on ancient consoles as well as PC?

There are some AD&D classic RPGs on the NES, a console that featured a whopping 2 buttons (other than Start and Select). How did they ever do that?

How do you explain the countless RPGs over the years that have both console and PC versions?

Morrowind was a bad game? It was on the original Xbox and I played it just fine at the time and had a blast with it. So did millions of others with it being a huge hit on the console at the time.

You're presenting a very silly argument with an analogy that doesn't mean anything. Good RPGs exist on all platforms, not only PC.
 
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Lurker King

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You genuinely think that they knowingly would hire anyone with shortcoming qualifications simply out of a political leaning? Not that it doesn't happen in corporate life but at Obsidian? That they would settle with inferior talent and experience? Do you have any evidence to the effect?

Sure.

Sawyer said: "When I started at Interplay in 1999, there were zero women in development," says Sawyer. "The number of female game developers has gradually gone up from year to year. Fallout: New Vegas had about half a dozen women on the project, which isn't really that much, but it was the most I had ever worked with. The game industry doesn't have a history of being particularly welcoming to women, so I'm glad that is changing, even if it's not happening at a rapid pace."

You would think that they would invite Vault Dweller to write something due to his work with Age of Decandence, or maybe invite Styg to develop some combat system due to his work with Underrail. Instead, they hire Carry Patel to promote diversity. What a joke.

I don't know who they hired or what, though I remember they "had to" lay off pretty good people a bunch of times in the past.

Because they were screwed by publishers, or were too incompetent to get a deal, or both.

Their shitty writing is a few grades above the next best stuff, of course, but still.

No, is not.

And Sawyer; not going into the inside politics with Avellone and others but from here, it looks like he's one of the major forces keeping the whole company running together, for good or for worse, regardless of how much I personally dislike his design sensibilities.

For worse, definitely. Let’s see: tank MMO, card games, shitty expansion cut in half with shitty writing, etc. You make it sound like it is a good thing, but if the price to keep Obsidian afloat is this decline mess they could just as well file for bankruptcy.

Then again, he was the guy who salvaged the sinking ship that was IWD2.

Another awful linear game with trashmobs and bad encounter design, but great art. Sounds like PoE allright.

he was the lead designer of NV, a brilliant game.

You mean, a great game with cool reactivity and writing if you can ignore the awful popamole combat system, FPS engine made by Bethesda and tons of bugs.

and also the lead guy on their pandering KS game that literally bought and secured the company's future .

You mean, he bought and secured the company’s future by taking free money on KS under false pretenses and delivering a popamole isometric game. That is not an accomplishment, by any means. Harebrained Schemes did the same thing with less money. The truth is that Obsidian is looking more and more a poor cousin of Bioware. The only reason they don’t become another Bethesda or Bioware is because they didn’t get the big contracts.
 

Space Insect

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How do you explain classic RPGs like the Wizardry series being available on ancient consoles as well as PC?

There are some AD&D classic RPGs on the NES, a console that featured a whopping 2 buttons (other than Start and Select). How did they ever do that?

How do you explain the countless RPGs over the years that have both console and PC versions?

Morrowind was a bad game? It was on the original Xbox and I played it just fine at the time and had a blast with it. So did millions of others with it being a huge hit on the console at the time.

You're presenting a very silly argument with an analogy that doesn't mean anything. Good RPGs exist on all platforms, not only PC.
The main complaint is when games get their entire UI remade so that it will work fine on consoles and controllers, but becomes really clunky on PC. Morrowind didn't have that problem because it's interface was clearly designed for PC. Skyrim and Dragon Age and many other recent games have had their UI made just for consoles. Also, the early DOS UI for most of those games was surprisingly simple and elegant. However, that was also before games and their UI had to look particularly "fancy" so that people would like the graphics.
 

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
The main complaint is when games get their entire UI remade so that it will work fine on consoles and controllers, but becomes really clunky on PC. Morrowind didn't have that problem because it's interface was clearly designed for PC. Skyrim and Dragon Age and many other recent games have had their UI made just for consoles. Also, the early DOS UI for most of those games was surprisingly simple and elegant. However, that was also before games and their UI had to look particularly "fancy" so that people would like the graphics.

I somewhat understand this argument, but to me, UI, whether it's console-based or PC-based, has such a tiny, tiny impact on my enjoyment of an RPG that it basically does not matter to me.

I'd put it right up there with animations in an RPG. Not necessary at all for my enjoyment. :D

Give me all those gooey RPG elements, mechanics and rulesets that I love and I am happy. :)
 

throwaway

Cipher
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Dec 17, 2013
Messages
492
The number of times I've seen Durance and GM namedropped on this forum you'd think he was Dak'kon or something
Is it that good, should I rush to my PoE save?
 
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Messages
4,198
RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
The number of times I've seen Durance and GM namedropped on this forum you'd think he was Dak'kon or something
Is it that good, should I rush to my PoE save?

They were good but not good enough to slog through entire PoA if you disliked the experience.
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2013
Messages
1,258

Could you substantiate that claim?

Sawyer said: "When I started at Interplay in 1999, there were zero women in development," says Sawyer. "The number of female game developers has gradually gone up from year to year. Fallout: New Vegas had about half a dozen women on the project, which isn't really that much, but it was the most I had ever worked with. The game industry doesn't have a history of being particularly welcoming to women, so I'm glad that is changing, even if it's not happening at a rapid pace."
You would think that they would invite Vault Dweller to write something due to his work with Age of Decandence, or maybe invite Styg to develop some combat system due to his work with Underrail. Instead, they hire Carry Patel to promote diversity. What a joke.

It is absolutely mind-boggling that you bring up that quote as if it's anything to go by. What is the idea here, that you feel threatened that women can find employment with Obsidian? That Obsidian has been becoming less and less of a boys club? That for every woman they hired, they have skipped a far more qualified man?

So, Sawyer himself personally hired Carrie Patel because she had a vag and no other accolades to her position? Good to know, thanks for the confirmed first-hand insider intel. Now, would you care to list the names of every other woman employed at Obsidian as well? Or do you have a beef with Carrie Patel in particular?

Would you also like them to consult with you the next time they are out to hire somebody?

For worse, definitely. Let’s see: tank MMO, card games, shitty expansion cut in half with shitty writing, etc. You make it sound like it is a good thing, but if the price to keep Obsidian afloat is this decline mess they could just as well file for bankruptcy.

So you are seriously positing that Sawyer, only recently promoted to the position of Design Director within Obsidian, had the exclusive and executive influence to decide to go with the tank MMO and the card game? Nope, boy, that decision lies with the top people. It is on Feargus more than anybody else.

Another awful linear game with trashmobs and bad encounter design, but great art. Sounds like PoE allright.

It sold well and we all know Sawyer had a big role in tying up the loose ends. Sort of the same deal with PoE.

You mean, a great game with cool reactivity and writing if you can ignore the awful popamole combat system, FPS engine made by Bethesda and tons of bugs.

Yup, it was Sawyer again. Bethesda offered them the freedom of building their own systems but no, evil Sawyer insisted on using Bethesda's framework. He had the freedom to build a new Fallout game from the ground up but refused. That Sawyer, man, that Sawyer. It's like he's the defacto leader of Obsidian, these days.

You mean, he bought and secured the company’s future by taking free money on KS under false pretenses and delivering a popamole isometric game. That is not an accomplishment, by any means. Harebrained Schemes did the same thing with less money. The truth is that Obsidian is looking more and more a poor cousin of Bioware. The only reason they don’t become another Bethesda or Bioware is because they didn’t get the big contracts.

It is just hilarious that you bold that part. Makes it sound like none other than Sawyer himself again is some kind of swindler, a con man. TOOK FREE MONEY, YOU SAY, NO SHIT!

Well, like it or not, PoE delivered what it promised. And for anyone with at least some familiarity with Obsidian, it was clear as day what they would deliver. From day one, they said the game would focus on combat and would also have some nice flavour text and choices. They certainly delivered in spades. Perhaps some people should have been less busy being excited and more attentive to what was being said. Then again, there were idiots who actually (not wished, but) expected the Obsidian KS game to be turn-based with a straight face.

Overall, you seem to have serious issues with women and even more with coming to terms with the fact that Sawyer isn't running the company. Feargus is. Perhaps you should think about why you are so obsessed with scapegoating Sawyer to the exclusion of everybody else and try to gain some perspective.
 
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Excidium II

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It is absolutely mind-boggling that you bring up that quote as if it's anything to go by. What is the idea here, that you feel threatened that women can find employment with Obsidian? That Obsidian has been becoming less and less of boys club? That for every woman they hired, they have skipped a far more qualified man?

So, Sawyer himself personally hired Carrie Patel because she had a vag and no other accolades to her position? Good to know, thanks for the confirmed first-hand insider intel. Now, would you care to list the names of every other woman employed at Obsidian as well? Or do you have a beef with Carrie Patel in particular?

Would you also like them to consult with you the next time they are out to hire somebody?
|>
|3
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Carrie Patel is on Chris Avellone's list of Obsidian-people-he-still-likes. Gave a shoutout to her work on The White March shortly after he left the company.

(Not that that's important to LK, he doesn't like MCA that much either)
 
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Lurker King

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My point was a simple one: studios that use quota principles hire people due to their race or sex, and this is irrational and unjustified. Then this guy starts saying that Sawyer is not the only one to blame, and that he makes Obsidian selling a lots of units of a popamole game and we can’t say bad things about him and that I can’t prove that they hiring everyone based on moral prejudices. What this has anything to with the initial point? Nothing. What I find telling in your answer is that you somehow think that helping Obsidian become another sellout studio for causals is something commendable. Fuck these people.
 

animlboogy

Learned
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Messages
122
You're working on a shitload of assumptions that Patel is unqualified for the job. I mean, the main issue with sexism in hiring is rarely, "WOMEN ARE UNQUALIFIED, THEY'RE UNTALENTED, BLUH BLUH BLUUUUH", it's more like, "we hire who we know, which happens to default to a lot of white dudes."

Obsidian hired the guy who did his damndest to rescue Oblivion from the trashbin with OOO, so it's not like they aren't aware of guys like Vault Dweller (does he even want to work for some fucking studio?) or Styg. Perhaps, in reaching out to interview people outside of their known circles, they found a talented person who happens to belong to the other half of the human race?
 
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Irenaeus

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You're working on a shitload of assumptions that Patel is unqualified for the job. I mean, the main issue with sexism in hiring is rarely, "WOMEN ARE UNQUALIFIED, THEY'RE UNTALENTED, BLUH BLUH BLUUUUH", it's more like, "we hire who we know, which happens to default to a lot of white dudes."

Obsidian hired the guy who did his damndest to rescue Oblivion from the trashbin with OOO, so it's not like they aren't aware of guys like Vault Dweller (does he even want to work for some fucking studio?) or Styg. Perhaps, in reaching out to interview people outside of their known circles, they found a talented person who happens to belong to the other half of the human race?

Wtf happened to Brady?
 

Flou

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I backed PoE for $77 and despite what I recognize now as some glaring mistakes (misuse of MCA, pandering to SJWs), I had a great time with the game. It is the best RTwP released since P:ST.

I'm not sure which party is more retarded the SJW crowd or the people who got completely upset about the change in the game. Pointless change and people cry themselves to sleep over it...
 
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Irenaeus

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I backed PoE for $77 and despite what I recognize now as some glaring mistakes (misuse of MCA, pandering to SJWs), I had a great time with the game. It is the best RTwP released since P:ST.

I'm not sure which party is more retarded the SJW crowd or the people who got completely upset about the change in the game. Pointless change and people cry themselves to sleep over it...

the SJW crowd
 

Sensuki

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Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
And Sawyer; not going into the inside politics with Avellone and others but from here, it looks like he's one of the major forces keeping the whole company running together, for good or for worse, regardless of how much I personally dislike his design sensibilities.

If the end result is games I don't like then this fact is meaningless to me, and probably anyone else who thinks the same. I haven't finished an Obsidian game since KotOR2, which was released 12 years ago. I doubt very much that they'll ever make anything I want to play ever again.

Guess who did not work on KotOR 2 ?
 
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