Risen - the last two chapters.

[CreamyBlood]

I just finished playing Risen a few moments ago, yet I didn't actually complete it. For those of you that have heard bad things about the final battle, it really is that bad. I didn't finish it, I tried for about forty-five minutes, gave up and watched three youtube video endings, all the same. To the asshole from PB that designed this: yes, you could probably get a job at God/Gears of War studios, work for Peter Moly on Fable or whatever else shit-trash crap that gets put out there. Why this was dumped at the end of an otherwise brilliant game I'll never know. I thought Deep Silver and Piranha Bytes were somewhat independent and didn't need to pander to the retard crowd. I'd really like to know why that was put in there.

Anyways, now that I'm done spitting that bad taste out of my mouth I can say that the last couple of 'chapters' were fun in their own right. I had to stop playing a few months ago while partly into chapter three and just started up again a couple of weeks ago. I had a half decent character.

Yes, it did turn into a dungeon slog, many repetitive monsters and a lot of "to'ing and fro'ing". The quests and character interaction became non-existent but the dungeons became big. Much larger than I expected. They finally put to use some of the magic that we had, giving you options sometimes, using the z-axis and interesting design.

To me, it reminded me of a modern day Dungeon Master game, using their limited tools to build puzzles. They did become obvious and perhaps boring after awhile because they packed it all in at the end.

I'm thinking that if they had eliminated the last chapter altogether but interspersed the preceding chapters with the smaller dungeons here and there and then put the bigger ones in later as you learned the concept it might have made a much better game. Some of those dungeons were pretty large by todays standards and although reusing the tools at hand the designers made them fun. The tedium came from packing them altogether at the end with the same monsters and concepts.

Besides all of that I had a great time. Piranha Bytes still is my favourite action-adventure-rpg studio to date. I have a list of games to play but after Risen there isn't much else. I still think that Gothic 2-NoTR is the better game but Risen came close, in fact if they'd mixed up the dungeons with the earlier chapters a bit it would be right on par. Still, definitely worth it despite it's faults.

I wish other game companies would follow their lead but as is evident here and elsewhere, quality and hand crafted love doesn't matter anymore. I truly hope they keep to their ideals with Risen 2 as I don't think there's much left for true gamers if they follow their peers down the tubes.

 

[Excidium]

I didn't have much problem with the final chapters in Risen either. It's awful and linear but by that point you're p. much invencible and can teleport all over the island, so at least it's over quickly.

I just finished playing Risen a few moments ago, yet I didn't actually complete it. For those of you that have heard bad things about the final battle, it really is that bad. I didn't finish it, I tried for about forty-five minutes, gave up and watched three youtube video endings, all the same. To the asshole from PB that designed this: yes, you could probably get a job at God/Gears of War studios, work for Peter Moly on Fable or whatever else shit-trash crap that gets put out there. Why this was dumped at the end of an otherwise brilliant game I'll never know. I thought Deep Silver and Piranha Bytes were somewhat independent and didn't need to pander to the retard crowd. I'd really like to know why that was put in there.

The final boss encounter in Gothic was shit too.

 

[CreamyBlood]

Still overall a playable experience till chapter 3 end. Luckily very few trash mobs until then.

Which was kind of my point. If you ignore the repetitious 'mobs' as you call them, the dungeon design and simple puzzles weren't too bad. I think that if they'd just spread those dungeons over the first parts of the game it might of balanced out better. Over all, I still liked it and am looking forward to a newer improved pirate version.

EDIT: I heard this somewhere and I'm paraphrasing: "Piranha Bytes only has to compete with themselves because nobody else makes the games that they do". It's true.

 

[Roguey]

They made that a Zelda boss because they wanted anyone to be able to beat it regardless of how gimped their build was. And bad news: Risen 2 uses similar gimmicks for Titans (in a preview, they talked about how you have to beat one by constantly throwing spears into its open mouth or something, Dodongo dislikes smoke).

 

[Zergian]

EDIT: I heard this somewhere and I'm paraphrasing: "Piranha Bytes only has to compete with themselves because nobody else makes the games that they do". It's true.

It sounds like something I wrote a couple of days ago, regarding NotR: "...Piranha Bytes' best title, I think. It is so distinct as a game that its only competition is found in other Piranha Bytes games."

Anyway, I haven't yet got to the dungeon-crawling part in Risen. Your message makes me want to resume playing.

 

[Zergian]

They made that a Zelda boss because they wanted anyone to be able to beat it regardless of how gimped their build was. And bad news: Risen 2 uses similar gimmicks for Titans (in a preview, they talked about how you have to beat one by constantly throwing spears into its open mouth or something, Dodongo dislikes smoke).

It's an understandable thing for a game of this type where sneaking or otherwise avoiding common enemies and encounters is one valid strategy. You'd need to be able to beat the bosses without the experience gained from beating other monsters. NotR took care of this by making powerful spell scrolls available to the player. A summoned demon could beat a dragon, and iirc one fire rain likewise. Perhaps Risen should have gone a similar route.

 

[Metro]

PB has never done bosses well (as noted above you could cheese everything in G2 with a summon demon scroll) and all of their games suffer from linearity towards the end. All we can do is hope they really do make the design changes they said they would in Risen 2.

 

[sser]

I thought the end boss was easy as hell. The actual melee combat was difficult for me. I think I damn near broke my F9 key re-loading so much (I would punch it in frustration). Risen, to me, is all about the game's actual title: you slowly rise up and defeat the island's evils. It's like a short pulp novella. The game did a really good job of making you feel like a piece of shit at the start and you slowly rising up to be a "true hero!" at the end.

It was refreshing to enter a murky, ominous cave with motley clothes and a stick and have the game go, "Are you kidding? Get the fuck out of here."

 

[CreamyBlood]

EDIT: I heard this somewhere and I'm paraphrasing: "Piranha Bytes only has to compete with themselves because nobody else makes the games that they do". It's true.

It sounds like something I wrote a couple of days ago, regarding NotR: "...Piranha Bytes' best title, I think. It is so distinct as a game that its only competition is found in other Piranha Bytes games."

Anyway, I haven't yet got to the dungeon-crawling part in Risen. Your message makes me want to resume playing.

Yeah, that was your quote, I don't get out much these days. If I didn't find sigs so annoying I'd add it to mine, it's very true.

The dungeon crawling isn't that bad, it's more the repetive monsters for me plus a quick drop off on quests. I like having a quest book full of stuff that I'm not sure how to solve and sometimes see get permanently deleted because of whatever choice I made. It does get pretty linear and is a major contrast after the first parts. But still, I can see a lot of thought and design went into them. Stock up on some scrolls, you'll need them.

As to the bosses, I just finished DX3 and thankfully it only had three that were 'dialed in', or 'phoned in'. Risen had the end boss. I could swear it was farmed out to a third party that didn't have a clue. Hopefully they wont do that in Risen 2, or at least make it somehow fun, or integrated or something. I really didn't get it. I still have the save so if I'm really bored I can go back to it and finish it, but I don't see the point.

Other than that, great game. I just reinstalled G2 and Dark Messiah.

 

[Metro]

The problem is the dungeons just aren't that interesting and, like other PB games, the loot/gear isn't varied or interesting. The puzzles/traps get tedious after a while, too.

 

[Roguey]

As to the bosses, I just finished DX3 and thankfully it only had three that were 'dialed in', or 'phoned in'. Risen had the end boss. I could swear it was farmed out to a third party that didn't have a clue. Hopefully they wont do that in Risen 2, or at least make it somehow fun, or integrated or something.

http://www.dailyjoypad.co.uk/?p=24576

The last section we were shown saw your character squaring off in an “epic battle” against a rogue pirate named Crow. Using a magical spear of some sort, Crow summons a titan-like enemy and he, the titan and some other pirates rush at your crew. Still in CG however, the enemy pirates are completely wiped out and you’re left with just Crow and the titan. Crow is then beaten very quickly and you have to wonder if it would have been worth having the enemy pirates as proper enemies to fight. Following that, it’s just a case of lobbing Crow’s spear into the titan’s gaping mouth enough times to defeat it.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011- ... rs-preview

The combat wasn't complicated, but it really wasn't interesting or new. Having dispatched Crow and his cronies easily, and acquired the spirit spear, even the developer struggled to avoid the Titan's attacks. If you have to resort to bunnyhopping, then you might want to reconsider how cheap you make your bosses.

Lessons not learned.

 

[CreamyBlood]

The combat wasn't complicated, but it really wasn't interesting or new. Having dispatched Crow and his cronies easily, and acquired the spirit spear, even the developer struggled to avoid the Titan's attacks. If you have to resort to bunnyhopping, then you might want to reconsider how cheap you make your bosses.

Lessons not learned.

I have to admit that sounds pretty bad. Kind of a bummer, really.

 

[Elwro]

The game is still very good before this fight. And the dungeons are cleverly connected so with some levitation etc you might skip quite a few fights if you don't want to do them.

Great game, looking forward to Risen 2 and even thinking of preordering a collector's edition if there is one.

 

[Mangoose]

I don't get this syndrome of not relying on your already solid mechanics. Oh man, I designed, implemented, and balanced a melee system that even the Codex likes, but I'll just make the encounters totally different. Instead of building on what I already had. Yup, that makes sense.

 

[Elwro]

Well, the endings of G1, G2 and G2+NotR were really, really bad - they seemingly couldn't figure out how to balance the last fights. So I can see why they wanted to experiment with something completely different, where your level would be completely irrelevant. How, though, they didn't see that what they ended up with was a complete failure is beyond me.

 

[CreamyBlood]

Well, at least it was the last, very final ending of the game. Unlike Fable where after the first corridor you were dealing with something like that. I can't see why they're putting that into the next game though. There is enough lameness in the world as it is, do we really need it in our niche games? Can't they learn?

 

[Elwro]

They are putting this into Dark Waters? Goddamnit. I saw two initial trailers and thought the game was on the right track...

 

[SuicideBunny]

the secret to greatly enjoy any gothic game is to quit before the last third, imo.

 

[CreamyBlood]

the secret to greatly enjoy any gothic game is to quit before the last third, imo.

I don't know. I'm just replaying Night of the Raven for the second time after a five year break, so we'll see. I remember enjoying the whole thing but now that I think of the orcs and the 'end bosses', maybe you have a point. In a few weeks or months perhaps my opinion will agree with yours.

Gothic 3, I can't argue there, I never finished it, I got bored. Perhaps that's what happens when you try and emulate Bethseda.

As to Risen, I didn't find the last third to be as bad as I had heard. Like I said, it was a dungeon slog with repetitive monsters but the design and environments were actually okay. Like I said, I think it would have been better if they'd mixed them up with the earlier chapters to give variety, but hey, that's how their production went and that's what we got.

The sad thing is that Risen 2 is the only RPG (lite) that I'm looking forward to. Besides that thursday game I can't think of a thing that I want to demo or play. There doesn't seem to be anything on the horizon.

 

[Rpgsaurus]

AFAIR almost every 1v1 encounter could be beaten easily if you just learn the enemy's attack pattern (some guys like Skeletons were pretty tough though, I think there was some randomness involved there, also those Lizards who rape you fast if you mess up). Fighting many opponents at once was harder as you had to keep an eye on more than one creature, but doable with some practice. Treks through wilderness were mainly about HP/mana management, as reloading after you mess up and take a hit would be annoying.

Every human encounter, including

Spoiler

the Inquisitor himself

was piss easy. So how do you design a good final boss with Risen's combat system? You could throw in a completely new combat system like they did, or make another buffed guy for you to cheese through like before? I guess they could have put a big buff boss guy with random attack patterns, but he would just be annoying to fight, not fun (you just heal up with potions/scrolls or reload when you mess up, as before).

Don't get me wrong, Risen is amazing and I loved Gothic1/2/NotR, and combat is fun - when you're learning it. But closer to the end when your gear is maxed etc. these types of games will inevitably become boring, at least until developers can come up with some innovative combat system that keeps up the challenge for player. This is unlikely, though, as casual players (where the money is) probably prefer the "I wanna get uber gear and roll everyone" type of gameplay.

 

[Kraszu]

was piss easy.

Had you gone to the monastery? Beating the master was the hardest fight in the game for me. Beating 2 people at once in one of the city quest was hard as well.

So how do you design a good final boss with Risen's combat system? You could throw in a completely new combat system like they did, or make another buffed guy for you to cheese through like before? I guess they could have put a big buff boss guy with random attack patterns, but he would just be annoying to fight, not fun (you just heal up with potions/scrolls or reload when you mess up, as before).

You could fight 2+ enemies at once in a boss fight, boss, and his body gourds, or boss, and his summons.

Don't get me wrong, Risen is amazing and I loved Gothic1/2/NotR, and combat is fun - when you're learning it. But closer to the end when your gear is maxed etc. these types of games will inevitably become boring, at least until developers can come up with some innovative combat system that keeps up the challenge for player.

Power attack, and ending arour was OP in Risen, remove those, and the game would be challenging until the end.

This is unlikely, though, as casual players (where the money is) probably prefer the "I wanna get uber gear and roll everyone" type of gameplay.

Causual players will not get to the end of Risen anyway.

 

[CreamyBlood]

But closer to the end when your gear is maxed etc. these types of games will inevitably become boring, at least until developers can come up with some innovative combat system that keeps up the challenge for player. This is unlikely, though, as casual players (where the money is) probably prefer the "I wanna get uber gear and roll everyone" type of gameplay.

Interesting. I found that I finally had extra money and Learning Points yet I was never 'uber'. Perhaps one or two foes at a time became easier but not if swamped. I was getting my ass kicked until the bitter end, as it should be. Perhaps you were doing it right or I was doing something wrong.

I think it's one of the few games where even at the end game, I was challenged. I can't think of any other game that's come close to that, except maybe Fallout (I was trying to keep my dog alive).

It's nice to hear that different builds matter.



.

 

[Elwro]

I also never got uber in Risen. Thought the balance was spot on. I played 1h+shield, although I guess other people might've been better at timing than me...

 

[Skittles]

I've only done Risen with a melee build, but a combination of rigorous exploration (extra XP and access to great loot) and crafting made for a pretty uber character by the end, for me. I played swords and shield--a skilled enough sword user can use 2H swords in one hand--with a lot of smithing and alchemy. It wound up being a pretty easy end-game. Multiple enemies are tough, but by the second act (if I recall correctly) I could take out basic lizards and second tier skeletons with a single hit. I didn't aim to min-max and I didn't grind per se (just enemies that got in the way of exploration), but I had the Berserker Sword (second highest damage dealer in the game?) from act one and 150+ str (with alchemy) before rings and amulets (had my pick, with smithing).

While I consider that 'uber' because I experienced a pretty sharp drop in difficulty from act one onwards, I do applaud Risen for still punishing stupid or lazy combat. Part of the game design that controls steam-rolling is the MQ dependent armour upgrades, I suspect.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I thought Deep Silver and Piranha Bytes were somewhat independent and didn't need to pander to the retard crowd. I'd really like to know why that was put in there.

why, so any retard could finish it, of cou-

I didn't finish it, I tried for about forty-five minutes, gave up