Game News Risen 2 -- preorder to get the full game

[Wirdschowerdn]

What if it's initial Gothic 3 quality?

Oh please. They're past that nonsense.

Besides, the meticulous console certification process does have a positively retroactive effect on the PC version too, when it comes to gameplay bugs at least.

 

[Vault Dweller]

They also said there wouldn't be any crappy DLC unless it would be EPIC in scope. With islands I expect each subsequent island to be only accessible after you do certain things or amass enough loot for the trip.

Pretty much. It's easy to say "sure, it's open, go wherever you want to!", but limit by requiring gold, contacts, maps, NPCs, and such.

It is a restrictive design element no matter how you look at it. Why even add a ship when you can't sail? They say it's the mobile base for you and your crew, a-la Normandy. Since when does a Gothic-like game requires a mobile base, what do you need it for, and why do you need a crew if you don't actually sail (i.e. what do the crew members affect?)?

Even the factions are different than what we're used to. You have the natives, the Inquisition, and the pirates. If I recall correctly, the Inquisition sends you to become a pirate. It's very different than the usual "explore, consider your options, join when you're ready" setup. It sounds like Risen will be a very story-driven game, which can be a good thing or a bad thing (depends on the story), but it does look like a departure from the formula.

 

[Vault Dweller]

What if it's initial Gothic 3 quality?

Oh please. They're past that nonsense.

They? PB or DS?

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

What bout Deep Silver?

PB created a new engine from scratch with Risen 1, Risen 2 looks even better. There's even a PS3 port, so it can't be that bad.

Still haunted by the Gothic 3 FPS jerk-orgy?

 

[Kraszu]

What exactly do you mean? I gave Kraszu a very specific quote, he gave me another very specific quote. The quotes contradict each other. As as fan of PB's previous work, I hope that Kraszu's quote reflects the true state of the game and that it will be more like Gothic 2 and less like Gothic 4.

I don't think that they do:
"This [going with the island structure] was a very cool thing in terms of storytelling because in Risen 1 the feedback was that it was very predictable, because you were on one island and you could go anywhere from the beginning, and people did!

They’d explore everything they could, and would be in regions they weren’t supposed to be and then suddenly later on they came to the region for a quest and be like ‘ah OK, that is why I’m now here’ but there was nothing new to explore."

He is saying that they want to put a story reasons to go on those islands first, you could look for the "same thing" on all of those islands. (like for example artifacts in G3, or parts of discs in Risen)

By the looks of it, they had to do a lot more than to keep the console design in mind, but if this discussion upsets you we can wait until the game is out.

Why isn't it fair to complain that they are doing this? Other companies don't get a free ride because they dumb down their games based on what other developers do.

I think that we don't have enough information to know that yet, they have a good track record so far, Gothic 3 is actually good game now with community patch with bugs fixed, much better balance, and improvements in fighting AI. They did make open world game, and unlike the games that Bethseda does now it isn't simplified shit, they didn't just copy a successful open world game, so why assume that they will just copy a non successful streamlined game? Just because it has Gothic in the title?

 

[Kraszu]

What bout Deep Silver?

PB created a new engine from scratch with Risen 1, Risen 2 looks even better. There's even a PS3 port, so it can't be that bad.

Still haunted by the Gothic 3 FPS jerk-orgy?

Risen uses the same engine that G3 but the world is smaller so it doesn't need to transfer so much data moron.

 

[Vault Dweller]

What bout Deep Silver?

They seem to be in control.

PB created a new engine from scratch with Risen 1, Risen 2 looks even better.

What has that gotta do with anything?

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

What bout Deep Silver?

They seem to be in control.

PB created a new engine from scratch with Risen 1, Risen 2 looks even better.

What has that gotta do with anything?

In case you haven't noticed, the Gothic 3 engine was a total disaster. And yes, that also led to a shit game.

That's why I said "They're past that nonsense".

Also DS doesn't seem to be the sort of control-freak publisher unlike certain US counterparts are.

 

[Vault Dweller]

What exactly do you mean? I gave Kraszu a very specific quote, he gave me another very specific quote. The quotes contradict each other. As as fan of PB's previous work, I hope that Kraszu's quote reflects the true state of the game and that it will be more like Gothic 2 and less like Gothic 4.

I don't think that they do:
"This [going with the island structure] was a very cool thing in terms of storytelling because in Risen 1 the feedback was that it was very predictable, because you were on one island and you could go anywhere from the beginning, and people did!

They’d explore everything they could, and would be in regions they weren’t supposed to be and then suddenly later on they came to the region for a quest and be like ‘ah OK, that is why I’m now here’ but there was nothing new to explore."

He is saying that they want to put a story reasons to go on those islands first, you could look for the "same thing" on all of those islands. (like for example artifacts in G3, or parts of discs in Risen)

He is saying more than that:
- he refers to people being able to go anywhere from the beginning as a negative thing
- he says that people weren't supposed to be in some regions, which is a very alarming comment
- he confuses open-world exploration with story-telling ("oh that's why I'm there!" comment)

Every one of these comments is a wrong thing to say if you're making an open-ended game. We can ignore them, of course, and say "nah, man, it's gonna be awesome" or we can see them as flags going up.

I think that we don't have enough information to know that yet, they have a good track record so far, Gothic 3 is actually good game now with community patch with bugs fixed, much better balance, and improvements in fighting AI. They did make open world game, and unlike the games that Bethseda does now it isn't simplified shit, they didn't just copy a successful open world game, so why assume that they will just copy a non successful streamlined game? Just because it has Gothic in the title?

I actually like Gothic 3 if you recall, so that's not the issue (at least for me). As to why assume that they will streamline? For the same reason everyone else is forced to streamline - to chase the wider audience. They've already lost JoWood. If they fail to please DS, they are out of the game.

 

[Vault Dweller]

In case you haven't noticed, the Gothic 3 engine was a total disaster. And yes, that also led to a shit game.

I had no technical or performance issues with G3. My main concern with R2 isn't the engine, but the overall design.

 

[dr. one]

What exactly does "climbing" mean in this usage?

This, basically:


Except in Risen 2 it´s only possible via hot spots.
(I haven´t read the most recent previews, but I´d be surprised if the above was cut from the game, world design and all.)
If the hot spots are plentiful and "press a key to climb" prompt can be switched off (or, as in the vid, isn´t there to begin with), I think this particular aspect may not end up being all that bothersome, though it´s not ideal.

However, where did the "no jumping" stuff come from? Is there a dev statement or a preview where this is clarified?
No swimming sucks already (and it sucked in Risen as well), but no jumping is quite another ballpark and would indicate a substantial shift in design paradigm.

“We used the islands to put certain structures in place. At the start, players are told to go to island A, and Island B – then suddenly, you get your ship, and you can get to island C, D, E anf F in any order.”

This sounds good, but the question is how enemies and quests are handled in this context.
If there´s no level scaling and the islands are not designed to be self contained quest-wise, I´ll be ok with it.

Anyway, can´t say the available info and reading between the lines make me optimistic about the game, mainly because it indeed seems like we´re getting too much of a Deep Silver game and not enough of a Piranha Bytes game.

 

[Murk]

This discussion is going in an alarming direction. I don't know what to think. A good gameplay vid would be sweet featuring limits of how free-roaming the game is.

 

[Kraszu]

He is saying more than that:
- he refers to people being able to go anywhere from the beginning as a negative thing

“We used the islands to put certain structures in place. At the start, players are told to go to island A, and Island B – then suddenly, you get your ship, and you can get to island C, D, E anf F in any order.”

And as said the game will start linear, and then soon be open ended.

- he says that people weren't supposed to be in some regions, which is a very alarming comment
- he confuses open-world exploration with story-telling ("oh that's why I'm there!" comment)

G2:notr also had valley of mines, and the world from add on that you couldn't go to at the beginning (other then by exploit not by design), all he is saying is that they want to laid out story structure before you can go to areas that are important to the story/MQ that doesn't go against open world game any more then valley of mines does, there can be good compromise there like in G2:notr.

I actually like Gothic 3 if you recall, so that's not the issue (at least for me). As to why assume that they will streamline? For the same reason everyone else is forced to streamline - to chase the wider audience. They've already lost JoWood. If they fail to please DS, they are out of the game.

You could think that same thing about Risen, and you could think that they will just copy latest Bethseda innovations in G3 that was more open world without chapters so closer to what Bethesda is doing but they didn't. I hope that they still want to make a good game but that they try to make people new to they design learn to appreciate it hence reversing the structure from open beginning > linear ending to linear beginning, and open ending.

 

[Metro]

Well... can anyone link a Risen 2 video where the character is jumping?

 

[Vault Dweller]

“We used the islands to put certain structures in place. At the start, players are told to go to island A, and Island B – then suddenly, you get your ship, and you can get to island C, D, E anf F in any order.”

The quotes belong to two different people. Publisher vs developer.

G2:notr also had valley of mines, and the world from add on that you couldn't go to at the beginning (other then by exploit not by design), all he is saying is that they want to laid out story structure before you can go to areas that are important to the story/MQ that doesn't go against open world game any more then valley of mines does, there can be good compromise there like in G2:notr.

The add-on is a different story, so let's leave it aside. The valley of mines is a good example, but it should be noted that the gameworld is huge and you never feel restricted in the game. With small islands, it might be more difficult to capture this feeling.

You could think that same thing about Risen, and you could think that they will just copy latest Bethseda innovations in G3 that was more open world without chapters so closer to what Bethesda is doing but they didn't. I hope that they still want to make a good game but that they try to make people new to they design learn to appreciate it hence reversing the structure from open beginning > linear ending to linear beginning, and open ending.

Let's hope.

 

[Kraszu]

“We used the islands to put certain structures in place. At the start, players are told to go to island A, and Island B – then suddenly, you get your ship, and you can get to island C, D, E anf F in any order.”

The quotes belong to two different people. Publisher vs developer.

Yeah I had quoted it because you had said that they were stating the opposite while they didn't, well not necessary anyway, depends on interpretation.

G2:notr also had valley of mines, and the world from add on that you couldn't go to at the beginning (other then by exploit not by design), all he is saying is that they want to laid out story structure before you can go to areas that are important to the story/MQ that doesn't go against open world game any more then valley of mines does, there can be good compromise there like in G2:notr.

The add-on is a different story, so let's leave it aside. The valley of mines is a good example, but it should be noted that the gameworld is huge and you never feel restricted in the game. With small islands, it might be more difficult to capture this feeling.

70% or Risen would be still pretty big when you open access to few ones at once.



I doubt that they would make video with such a factual claim made up (open access to islands when you get the ship).

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Breaking up the space in smaller islands was meant to avoid memory issues for the consoles. Plus, they can now actually put more interesting, handplaced content per m^2 into the game instead of making a shitty and shallow TES landscape.

 

[SCO]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29792