Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Research Help: Non-american otaku in the 80/90's.

Discussion in 'jRPG Weeaboo Discussion' started by felipepepe, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Make America Great Again Hiratogender: ⚧ Purse-Owner Patron

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    Now this I have to see for myself.








    http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/11055/Is-Shinji-moe-Yes-No-Please-keep-it-on-topic/20/?
    Show Spoiler
    Shinji is not a whimp - He is a memetic badass! Your reactions to him should be limited to "Teh epicness!", "The manliness!" or "Did he just really...?!", and, if you're female or gay, "Awwwww!" and "I'll be in my bunk!"

    Now, I will cement my claim with pictures of Shinji with his standart expression in battle: Cool/stoic/Determined. Yes, he looks like that for 85% of his battle screen time, and the other 15%, something unpredictable and nightmarish has happened. Please forgive him for being 14. I can prove his innate coolness with pics from the entire series and all his battles, but to prove just how epic he is, let's use pics from the first Rebuild movie, i.e, his time as a complete noob. Yes, he gets even cooler after this! MUCH cooler. Don't provoke me, I just found out how to use screenshot maker program.

    Here, have some of the incredibly hot, unstoppable menace that is Ikari Shinji:
    "What? I came for a family reunion, and you bastards want me to go and fight monsters? Just like that? Hello, I'm an ordinary 14 year old kid! Do I look like Clark Kent? Is this a bad Godzilla movie? Forget it. DO NOT WANT. XP ...Wait? You will make the injured pretty girl do it?"
    [​IMG]

    "You'll get to know me, bitches". And look! Those sexy eyes!

    ---

    [​IMG]

    This fearsome warrior has only just learned how to fly the thing he's in.

    ---

    "I must'n run away"
    [​IMG]

    ...So he won't run away.

    ---

    The so-called whimp, after being thrown a few kilometers:
    [​IMG]
    "Don't fuck with me, you oversized dildo"

    ---

    [​IMG]

    Yeah, totally a pathetic, whiny mess that doesn't get anything done and freaks out at the slighthest provocation.

    ---

    Proof that berserking runs in the family:
    [​IMG]

    I dare you to call him a whimp again.

    ---

    Shinji the vaginal reference, after being fried by a laser the second time that day. His heart stopped the first time.
    [​IMG]

    The tears just make it MORE badass.

    ---

    Teh Sexy:
    [​IMG]

    I'll be in my bunk.

    ---

    Also, this wonderful young man is not only, as proven above, sexy and badass, he's also an excellent musician, an expert cook, a very thoughtful, sensitive person, and very nice and kindhearted.
    [​IMG]

    Oh, and he has a pretty smile.
    He is also true to himself - his creator said in an interview that shinji never did anything he didn't want to do. Isn't that badass?

    ...Almost too good to be true? No, this is all the truth! The only problem is, the poor thing doesn't know how badass he is! He thinks he's a coward (I don't know how on earth he got that idea) and therefore, he is a bit angsty and shy, you know, since he's such a good person, he doesn't want his alleged suckyness to hurt others. You see, his Daddy didn't tell him how cool he is and he lost his Mommy! But fragile looking boys are sexy, aren't they? Yessss....



    If that didn't convince you that Shinji Ikari is absolutely NO whimp, well, this is unfortunate. *pats Shinji after you meanies made him sad*
    But you know what? Half of Tokyo 3 disagrees with you! And I think the ppl who know Shinji in person are in a better position to judge him, aren't they? Look, this is what the resident hotties of Neo Tokyo 3 think:


    At first, let's meet Miss Rei Ayanami II, who is, as of the second of the "Rebuild of Evangelion" movies, which are basically about how badass Shinji Ikari is (They're a tetralogy because 1 movie just isn't enough to squeeze all of Shinji's badass into it), his current girlfriend.
    She is one of the most lusted-after figures in anime.
    Let's slook at her reaction to Ikari Shinji being badass in front of her and also saving her life:
    [​IMG]

    Rei: "Ikari-kun *.*"

    ---

    Next, let's ask the also very well-known Asuka Langley Soryu (or, Shikinami in the New movies), who has the honor of living in the same house as the super badass Ikari Shinji.
    She is also the most popular girl at her school, also universally recognized as smexy and known for taking no shit from no one and only accepting the best from herself and others. In other words, she's not easy to impress.
    But look at her face after she witnessed the badass of Shinji Ikari, after he saved her life (yes, he does that a lot):
    [​IMG]

    Asuka: "Baka-Shinji *.*"
    Note that she usually doesn't agree with Rei very often.

    ---

    Next is his nice, encouraging guardian, Major Misato Katsuragi who does her best to suceed where Shinji's Daddy failed i.e. to tell him he's badass. This is one of her attempts:
    [​IMG]

    Misato: "Shin-chan *.*"
    In case you couldn't tell by the pictures, she is also very hot and has the likes of james-bond-wannabe Ryoji Kaji (basically Jack Harkness, but heterosexual) and the loveable geek Makoto Hyuuga lusting after her.

    ---

    Next, let's meet the much-discussed Mari Illustrious Makinami, who has been called a female Kamina. Don't be fooled by her moe-ish looks, she is a very deadly, unstoppable warrior who lives by the principle of "Nothing Ventured, nothing gained". She also has delicious E-Cup boobs, and usually prefers working alone since not many can't handle her aura of badassitude. She is cool enough to hijack an 80 meter high Mecha, usualy travels by parachute, and kills reality defying monsters FR FUN when her extreme sports bore her. She is also the lovechild of Chuck Norris and Amelia Pond. (Sorry, Rory)
    This is her reaction to seeing the wonder that is Shinji Ikari:
    [​IMG]

    Mari: "Puppy-kun *.*"
    When Mari first laid eyes on Shinji Ikari, she noticed something very agreeable about his scent. She couldn't work out what it was tough - at least, untill she saw Shinji in Action:
    [​IMG]

    Mari: "Oh, right! It was the scent of badass!"

    Note that these four ladies can be trusted to know a badass when they see one since they...

    ...have plenty....
    [​IMG]

    ...of experience....
    [​IMG]

    ...in that field...
    [​IMG]

    ...themselves.
    [​IMG]



    ---

    NOw, let's move on to the next member of Shinji's fanclub, the resident memetic sexgod of Tokyo 3: Kaworu Nagisa! Yes, Shinji is so sexy and badass that even the guys want him! It's no wonder tough, since Shinji and Kaworu share so many interests, like Music and Philosophy. They are both rather deep people.
    This is how a cool, intellectual person like Kaworu reacts to Shinji:
    [​IMG]

    Kaworu: "Shinji-kun *.*"

    ---

    Those above are by far not the only ones who think Shinji is the hottest thing on earth: Let's see what Mana Kirishima, a cool mecha pilot, (actual mecha, not biologic thingie that pretty much moves by itself) thinks of him:
    [​IMG]

    Mana: "Shinji Ikari is so hot! I NEED him to become my boyfriend!"

    ---

    And there's more - let's see the reaction of Mayumi Yamagishi, another pretty girl with an excellent singing voice that makes most boys go AWW, who got her life saved by the super badass Shinji Ikari. Twice. (Yes. He REALLY does that alot)
    [​IMG]
    Mayumi: *singing* "Jibun no utsukushisa mada shiranai..."
    (taken from "Beautiful world". "You still haven't realized your own beauty.

    ---

    Is there no one who can resist Shinji Ikari? Apparently not. Even the icy, unfeeling Rei Ayanami the Third finds him hot - Even hotter than the infamous Uberpimp!
    [​IMG]

    Rei III: "I can't. Another Ikari is hotter than you."

    ---

    These are only a few of Shinji's countless fangirls, some of which can be seen here:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    In case you couldn't tell, the owners of these pretty legs are shouting "Ikari-kun".
    Also, Shinji could have any of them whenever he wanted, but the one he's interested in is the pale, lonely, sickly-looking one in the corner.
    See what a good-natured, non-superficial person he is?

    ---

    But all these might be biased right? They're members of his harem, after all. So let's get a neutral opinion, that of Hikari Horaki, another much-lusted after pretty girl:
    [​IMG]

    Hikari: "Ikari-kun seems to be a sensitive guy."
    Hikari is the one on the right btw. The cutie on the left is Asuka - she might be acting like she hears this for the first time, but as evidenced by the above pic, she is simply in denial because the effect Teh Shinji has on her heart and body is just too much for her to bear. Mommy issues. Tey are not uncommon in Tokyo 3. In fact, so not uncommon that those meanies will call you a Mary Sue without them.

    ---

    What the fuck...?!
    [​IMG]

    I think we all agree that Shinji is too hot for his own good.

    ---

    So, to get a truly neutral opinion concerning his badassitude from someone who can't possibly have the hots for him, let's see how his father reacts to Shinji being badass.
    [​IMG]

    If even FREAKIN GENDO IKARI shows a reaction like this, how did ANYONE EVER get the idea that Shinji is a whimp?
    Can anyone explain that to me?



    Now, you probably have a few questions.
    I will gladly answer them.

    a) How can Shinji possibly be so hot?

    It's the wonders of genetics.
    Look here: This is Shinji's Mommy:
    [​IMG]

    and this is his Daddy:
    [​IMG]
    And this is Shinji:
    [​IMG]

    From his Mommy he got:
    - Cute shape of the eyes
    - nice loving smile
    - lots and lots of talents
    - those lovely parted bangs
    - cute rounded cheeks
    - fragile, elegant body shape
    - intelligence
    - his complete DO NOT WANT attitude
    - his apeshit-y fighthing style

    From his daddy, he got:
    - intriguing blue eyes
    - cool dark brown hair
    - any part of his hot face that isn't passed down from his mommy
    - more intelligence
    - cute, troubled personality
    - apparently, very chick-attracting pheromones
    - the will to tear open the sky and shatter the earth for his loved ones
    - Shinji's skin tone is somewhat in between those of his parents.

    b) How can Shinji possibly be so badass?
    Simple math.
    Look here:
    This:
    [​IMG]

    plus THIS:
    [​IMG]

    equals THIS:
    [​IMG]


    :what: ...I'm out!
     
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  2. damicoregender: ⚧ Scholar

    damicore
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    So this is what people wanted shinji to be instead of being a "crybaby" all the time? Interesting :smug:
     
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  3. Make America Great Again WhiskeyWolfgender: ⚧ RPG Codex Polish Car Thief Patron

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    My fucking eyes, I'm blind!
     
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  4. I'm With Her Vaarna_Aarnegender: ⚧ for prison Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

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    So have I mentioned how much I hate the EVA fandom? I have? Well, I think it bears re-iteration.

    I'm brofisting you for pointing out that the crybaby bullshit is just bullshit. Those "people" don't even know how people work.
     
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  5. felipepepegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    Man, it's hard to keep talking about anime, fanboys & cliches without derailijng into Evangelion every 2 pages... o_O

    So, let me force another subject:

    When do you guys think that jRPG went "too far"?

    Most people would think around the FF7 era, with Cloud and all that, but I found most amusing to heard one codexer saying he played & loved all the first FF, but felt betrayed when he saw a Tv commercial showing how those pixel blocks were supposed to actually look like...

    But in fact, character designs were quite unique and non-anime in the early days of jRPG. Amano's FF design can't be called "anime cliche", for instance. And take Lufia 2 for example:

    [​IMG]

    On left we have Guy as you played with him, on the middle his concept art as was shown on the manual, and on the right how he was "re-imagined" for Lufia 2 DS remake... even worse, here's Tia:

    [​IMG]

    Yup, pointless googles, marketable mascots, retarded grins, short skirts, is all there...

    There is no doubt that most jRPG character design are otaku-only now, taken even farther by how "Nier" had two character designs, a thin white haired kid for Japan, and a generic barbarian for the west:

    [​IMG]

    Funny enough, most people don't mind Chrono Trigger characters, even though it was made by Mr. Toriyama, a anime artist... prove of his talent to make universal designs, something that clearly was lost?
     
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  6. Make America Great Again Hiratogender: ⚧ Purse-Owner Patron

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    My first JRPG was Final Fantasy X, I really liked it; The stupid story (in before Tidus), the music, the turn-based combat system.
    In my defense I was young (and subsequently the target audience) and it was the first month in my life in which I had access to a console.

    It's no secret that the Final Fantasy series has declined pretty heavily since X, and even X was considered decline by most fans back then.
    Though the problems with Final Fantasy as a whole seem more to do with Squeenix having no goals/direction for the future, resulting in games like FF XII which turn our given protagonists into irrelevant background props halfway through.

    I have next to no idea what things were like in the past and I am woefully inexperienced with the genre as a whole, but everything I see advertised on sankakucomplex tend to follow one of the following formats....
    - X an RPG with saucy fan service!
    - X of series Y turned into a loli to appeal to a wider audience!
    - X an RPG from Y: it looks just like anime!
    - X - full blown XXXXX action!

    And then there's the occasional ironic troll piece from bioware, "Bioware: JRPGs have stagnated!"
    I'm not quite sure what to make of all that, sancom hardly qualifies as a news source.

    I don't mind the whole stylised moe look, but I need a lot more from anime and games than just moe to enjoy them. Overall, I think moe detracts from the whole experience, especially in anime, as it just invites stereotypes, archetypes and cliches you've seen a hundred times before and which no longer entertain.
    I can't help but think that, much like how the west put their eggs in the baskets of realism and graphics, many japs are doing likewise for moe and emulating 2D via 3D.


    in a way, I actually feel kind of sorry for the otaku.
    Their hobby basically consists of a serious case of Stockholm Syndrome; keeping an industry alive whose sole purpose is to exploit and manipulate them for their own gain; They are prisoners and moe is their chains.
     
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  7. Tehdagahgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    [​IMG]


    He is overrated.
     
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  8. felipepepegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    Yeah, not so much on CT, but I honestly hate Dragon Quest exactly because every character is Goku and the mosnters have the same look over and over again...

    Still, his designs for Frog and Robo where very nice, and riding on DBZ wagon or not, the characters are still liked (or at least tolerated) by most people, unlike FFVII, IX or X...

    :hmmm:
    I feel so old.
     
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  9. Cosmogender: ⚧ Arcane

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    It depends : on the other side his work (his good stuff at least) has a simple, unassuming, and genuine childlike quality that is all too easy to disregard or forget.
     
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  10. I'm With Her Vaarna_Aarnegender: ⚧ for prison Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

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    Absolutely correct (and the moe-chain analogy is very good). Like we mentioned earlier, the worse problem with the stereotypes and cliches is not that they're repeated... It's that they're superficial elements that are being repeated.

    One thing I've wondered, lacking in extensive knowledge, is that could the problem of the anime and manga culture be precisely because it is centered around what you're selling? A major change in Western comics was when the writer became the prominent point, or as Grant Morrison explained it in Supergods, after Watchmen and Swamp Thing, DC was no longer selling simply Batman comics or Superman comics. They were selling said characters written by specific writers, with the combination of the writer and the character being the key to the audience.

    By contrast, in manga and anime I've been getting the impression that most people involved are one-hit wonders, doing one or two series that they prolong as long as possible before fading into obscurity, with only the absolutely most talented like Hayao Miyazaki or Mamoru Oshii being able to establish themselves as household names. In fact, I can only think of people involved in the anime industry who manage to establish themselves than in the manga (and my impression has been that the manga industry is like a slave plantation), and who are serious artistic heavyweights.

    I guess a major element to this is that there was no "creator revolt" in manga, the way there was in American comics in the 90's, so the publishers still treat the creators like utter shit.

    And really, the one thing that his Dragon Ball manga really does have going for it is Toriyama's artwork. He's got something similar to what Jack Kirby had, a great deal of kinetic energy and passion that overflew in his action scenes. The old Kirby description of "barely contained in the pages the art seems to try to jump right out of" fits him quite well.
     
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  11. felipepepegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

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    I think you're right to the point, there are no more manga/anime famous creators... researching on this you read all about how some directors like Noboru Ishiguro were considered masters of their art, that people would go watch anime they were directing for the great quality in effects and combat scenes... yet nowadays that is completly unheard.

    Even worse, you can see that most manga creators are aware of their one-hit-wonder status and tend to milk the shit out of their work, instead of keeping a short & high quality work and giving the series a worthy finale. Or they are pressured into doing so; Death Note was supposed to end with L dying and exposing Kira in the process, lasting only 6 volumes, but the authors said they were "forced" into writting 6 more volumes of all that Near/Mello shit due pressure from Jump... if the authors of such a great success can't stand their ground, they are clearly patethic just sad robots working for industry & fans that don't care about quality.

    Perhaps is as the comics, they need to be destroyed by korean manhwa or the like so a "new wave of japanese manga" can rise up, where the authors matter... problem is, it seems that the audience itself doesn't care about anything more than their kawaii moes...
     
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  12. alkeidesgender: ⚧ Self-Ejected Patron

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    I think exploring pricing of media products would be a productive venue for research. DVDs and Blu-Rays cost a shitload more new in Japan than anywhere else for example. They include a lot of おまけ but who really cares about that besides otaku? The same pricing model actually applies for other media products though.
     
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  13. felipepepegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    I never researched much into it, even though in a souless marketing graduate I'm trying to approach this from a cultural point of view, especially since I'm more worried about the global impact of otaku cuture devolving into ghetto than on Japan itself. (And to be honest, I have to follow this path, the scholarship won't approve people studying Japan without speaking japanese fluently :P). Still, you're right, I should at least be aware of their prices, so I can understand what is the percieved cost/reward they expect from all those moe dvds lying around...

    Still, during my time in Japan I noted that they do have a MASSIVE gap between new/used prices (proved by the fact that I only bought used stuff - including a PS2 Disgaea CE for 10 dollars :D). Not sure if I'm used to thirdworldian people not caring if it's new or used as long as it's cheap, but you could see that companies where charging a great deal of money for those who value getting their shrink wrapped, never-before-touched dvds...
     
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  14. Make America Great Again Hiratogender: ⚧ Purse-Owner Patron

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    Thanks to Vaarnie, I'm now imagining anthropomorphic chains with lines like.
    - I-It's not like I want to tie y-you up or a-anything! B-Baka!
    - You're thinking of doing lewd things with me, aren't you? Pervert!
    - D-Don't break me, Onii-chan.
    - I-I want to feel you in my bonds, Onii-chan.
    - P-Please try me on, I-I'll be gentle.


    It never ceases to amaze me just how well they've mastered the art of padding, Just ask WhiskeyWolf about Detective Conan.
    What are they up to these days? 670 episodes?
     
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  15. alkeidesgender: ⚧ Self-Ejected Patron

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    Yeah there's a lot of disposal of very new items in Japan. I picked up a lot of used DVDs when I was there too. I don't know if it's mostly a Tokyo thing though. Kansai people might be more pragmatic.
     
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  16. I'm With Her Vaarna_Aarnegender: ⚧ for prison Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

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    Another thing that's interesting is how conformist most of the creators are. But more importantly, how it's usually the famous people who aren't in one-hit wonder status who are the most non-conformist. Evangelion is again a very good example, since it's a very harsh denouncement of the cliches it deconstructs and the lifestyle otaku culture is willingly building around itself... And how the audience and peers completely missed Anno's point and just added more angst and religious symbols into their work (hilarious part is that the religious symbols were there purely for the visuals). It ties in with the whole idea that they're "creating anime/manga", which is an entirely wrong mindset. A good description of the right mindset is how critics describe Miyazaki and Oshii: They make movies and stories, that happen to be animated, and take advantage of the possibilities their format allows.

    It's actually a very interesting thing, the whole submissiveness of the Japanese manga creators. Especially when they most likely know that they could have it otherwise. Alan Moore for example, is in a position where he can simply proclaim "fuck da police" and take off from DC along with his own intellectual property the moment they censored a minor background mock ad in his League. Grant Morrison on the other hand cooperates with DC and works with big publishers, but in that relationship it's clear that it's Grant who's calling the shots, because both sides know that Grant's got the talent and the name that'll get DC sales and critical acclaim.

    The most interesting aspect is the rise of the limited series. Now, in Europe it has existed a lot longer due to the different publishing method, the single album instead of issues, but recurring characters were a thing over here too (classic example being the fantastic body of work Renee Goscinny had), but nowadays the majority of American comics, outside of the handful of series that are big enough to sustain eternal sales (half of them some manner of X-Men titles, which boggles the mind considering what shlock those are), are focused on telling stories with a start and an ending. Hell, until recently as far as everyone was concerned, Swamp Thing truly started and ended with Alan Moore's run, and similarly with Grant Morrison and Animal Man. Simply because these two long runs were exhaustive and fully explored what could be termed as THE story for those characters, and finally provided a satisfying ending (the most striking of which, in my opinion, is Grant Morrison's last issue of Doom Patrol). Others tried to continue, of course, but it simply never works out. The monthly title evolves into a closed ultimate arc.

    And of course, then we have works like Watchmen and The Invisibles, which are fully designed from the start to be contained stories. Even the characters previously driven by ongoing titles are now defined by their limited series. The most important example of these in the recent years is one of the best ever written, Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman, which like Alan Moore's Supreme is essentially a highly talented writer's love letter to the greatest of all heroes in the human mass consciousness, the Man of Tomorrow (personally I agree with them, the most resonant nickname for Superman is not the Man of Steel, but the Man of Tomorrow).



    The truly astonishing part? This entire development was ultimately caused by an editor, Karen Berger, who was the one who wanted comics to take a giant leap and become something more than they were before. Seems to be that there are no such people in the Japanese manga publishing industry. Even in anime, it's usually the same people and studios who continue to make the truly interesting and daring projects.


    EDIT: One thing I thought might interest you people:

    Grant Morrison has said that nowadays with dwindling comic book sales, he'd prefer to leave the industry to make room for new writers, and instead start to seriously write video games, which he feels have the potential to be the next step in storytelling.

    Then again, he says that after he made it clear he would like to write video games, he hasn't been getting calls about it like before. He even wrote a little thing about what he'd consider to be a game he'd like to play, which is a GTA type game where your choices ALTER REALITY, as in if you start doing things like going to a voodoo shop enough, eventually you'll end up in a flying saucer fighting zombies.

    Hmmmmm, maybe we should ask MCA if he and Obsidian would like to make a game with Grant Morrison?
     
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  17. felipepepegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

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    That's what's missing in Japan, a strong man willing to take things beyond. Problem is that manga is harder, titles and authors are unseparable; you can't take Naruto, gve him to a badass like Grant and make him reinvent shonen genre. And since the big magazines & companies have no interest in changing the status quo, he would have to start as a nobody, battling countless other low-profile mangas... and worse, the rejection from a community that does not desire change.

    Quite hard scenario, perhaps the time hasn't arrived yet, perhaps it has already gone... somehow I think that the last episode of rebuild of Evangelion may be a landmark in that sense, for better or worse, of the state that otaku industry is.
     
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  18. Make America Great Again WhiskeyWolfgender: ⚧ RPG Codex Polish Car Thief Patron

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    Tell me about it, shit went beyond absurd a long time ago.
     
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  19. I'm With Her Vaarna_Aarnegender: ⚧ for prison Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    The part where it gets into incest territory is when you realize that the total symbiosis between a mangaka and his one-hit-wonder series is what fuels the circlejerk. Other people would clearly want to present their take on characters, but instead of actually doing it, they essentially go "well I'll create my own Naruto, with blackjack and hookers."

    Another thing I find quite interesting is how rare it is for there to be a separate writer and artist for manga. I can't think of any famous examples besides Fist of the North Star. I find it quite peculiar, particularly because in my personal experience, having an artist to collaborate with is possibly the greatest asset a writer can get. Alan Moore, in his sole essay on writing comics, also comments on how great it is to have an artist to work with and how you the prospective writer should listen to and talk about ideas with your artist. And of course, it allows for further specialization. Both Alan Moore and Grant Morrison do concept art for their stories, but they know that when it comes down to it, they're the wordsmiths and guys who come up with the substance, while people like Dave Gibbons or Dave McKean can then render to an exciting visual form.

    I guess this has to do with the ultimately expendable nature of the manga and the mangaka, how they exist as a single unit that is then discarded, with the mangaka hopelessly trying to recreate what once got him into brief spotlight.
     
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  20. Habagender: ⚧ Harbinger of Decline Patron

    Haba
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    What? I can think of 100 examples.

    Amaenaideyo!!, Battle Royale, Chobits, Crying Freeman, Death Note, Golgo 13, Pluto...

    There is a distinct pattern for those works that separate the story and art though. And in general the whole industry is built around superstar artists who build up their name, empowered by nameless and faceless assistants who hope to one day do the same.
     
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  21. I'm With Her Vaarna_Aarnegender: ⚧ for prison Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    Like I've said, I'm no expert on manga, so I bow to your superior wisdom.

    Incidentally, how does the whole assistant thing work?
     
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  22. Cool namegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Cool name
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    It is not my intention to offend anyone but I have to say the current discussion seems dangerously close to a group of blind people discussing a painting. That's all. Please forgive me if my lack of tact brings you any bother. I'll remove myself from the thread now.
     
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  23. felipepepegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    I'm not offended, just confused. o_O

    Is not like we're talking about how horrible is to live in a flat planet, it's a cultural product and we're discussing our opinions & views on it. I'm very curious now to hear your take on all this, Agassi, and how it differs so much from ours. Don't remove yourself, elighten us. :)

    Yeah, just imagine how many retarded american super-heroes there would be if no one could use Superman, Batman and the likes besides their original authors...

    Not sure how much of it is real, but I found Bakuman very interesting to help understand the industry. It's also a very unique title, the ideia that "a japanese manga about japaneses making mangas" sells all over the world is rather amusing.

    Bakuman talks a lot about assistants, and they are mostly wannabe mangakas that help the artist, doing backgrounds, secondary characters, inking and all that. It's often told to be a very cruel job, with insane schedules, massive work hours and low pay. Some manage to break into stardom, like how One Piece author worked as asssitant on Samurai X... but such success is very rare.
     
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  24. Habagender: ⚧ Harbinger of Decline Patron

    Haba
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    You're not nearly as knowledgeable as you like to think, BC. Occasional bit of humility wouldn't hurt.
     
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  25. Cool namegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Cool name
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    I am very sorry if it did seem I was claiming a deep knowledge of either manga or anime. My interest on such things is mostly passing.

    My comment was on people who is extremely, and admirably, knowledgeable on a topic of their choice discussing the similarities and differences observable between this topic and another similarly complex and vast topic they have no invested as much love and effort trying to understand even when several linguistic and cultural barriers conspire to keep them away. Please forgive me if my choice of words make it seem my comment was self aggrandizing but my intention was to protect the discussion from at least a certain measure of intellectual dishonesty. I have no intention of taking part of this discussion beyond that.

    That aside I will keep in mind what you said. Thank you for your time.
     
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