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Decline PS4 wins the console war against XboxONE, yet it is a hollow victory as Consolesdämmerung is upon us

dnf

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People tend to watch mobile/tablet as some kind of vacum but it is imo wrong assumption. Both of those platforms just got non gamer interest. Anyone that want to actually play games will be playing on either Console or PC. Because games are no longer gimmick medium like it used to be in 90' where people thought that game market can die.

But there's more money to made in those areas, for the time being, and it requires a similar skill set. Most AAA studios burn out their employees, and indie companies push out shit for money just as frequently.
As long as there is demand for games on dedicated hardware, there will be companies stepping in to fill that demand. The industry might not be able to support the ridiculous mess that AAA games have become, but games will continue to be made in some capacity. This could be a very good thing - we might see a resurgence of small- and medium-budget niche genre games, or games that focus more on content than on presentation.

Console systems were the natural decline from Arcade games anyways.
Fixed, console systems are a transition phase betwix Arcade games and PC games, while not exceeling in neither. All console classics can be played on a superior PC provided you can emulate it, and while Arcade games can be played on PC too, the pay-to-credit social enviromnent of Arcades is absent from the premises, unless you LARP.
 

Perkel

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Didn't they make giant buckets of cash with Desu Ex? They better make another one before they shut that shit down.

apperently if you have bloated bureaucracy and bigger marketing budget than game dev budget you need sell more than 4-5 mln units to have reasonable influx of cash for company.

I can't wait for crash. With new gen and again increasing dev cost of AAA games it is certain soon we will reach point where biggest pubs will fail.


Factorio devs said that considering their team size they will earn same amount of money as Starcraft 2 literally selling in ten thousands rather than milions.
Probably soon more developers will realize that it is more profitable to work with smaller team of people.
 

DalekFlay

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apperently if you have bloated bureaucracy and bigger marketing budget than game dev budget you need sell more than 4-5 mln units to have reasonable influx of cash for company.

Bloated corporate bureaucracy plus high Western pay and benefits plus expensive bullshit like constant flights and parties plus employees spending half the day bullshitting on twitter and playing ping-pong plus plus plus plus
 

TheGreatOne

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Factorio devs said that considering their team size they will earn same amount of money as Starcraft 2 literally selling in ten thousands rather than milions.
Probably soon more developers will realize that it is more profitable to work with smaller team of people.
That's one of my greatest hopes. Another video game crash (too bad we missed the 30 year anniversary), that resets the industry and brings sanity back into game development. But knowing how things are know, I think we'd mostly see more Goat simulators, DayZ clones and stuff like Papers Please rather than good games.
 
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Machocruz

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Maybe crash will help rid the industry of its obsession of trying to be New Hollywood. Trying to emulate Hollywood on things Hollywood can do for a faction of the price. I saw Grand Budapest Hotel the other day. Miles ahead of any AAA video game visually (in terms of taste and artistry) and narratively, imo. $500 million on Destiny? For what? To shoot at other players with generic sci-fi guns in a derivative (for anyone who sees a lot of concept art portfolios, at least) sci-fi world, and probably no better than has been done before, with an MMO gimmick that will probably not be that big of a deal in the big picture of video game design. But them production values tho!
 
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DalekFlay

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That's one of my greatest hopes. Another video game crash (too bad we missed the 30 year anniversary), that resets the industry and brings sanity back into game development. But knowing how things are know, I think we'd mostly see more Goat simulators, DayZ clones and stuff like Papers Please rather than good games.

You think those three are the problem? Really?
 

TheGreatOne

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The idea that you would motion capture a real life human actor so you can animate a character in a video game seems so mindbogglingly stupid to me. Until you can make realistic facial expressions with code cheaply, you should just forget about it, especially since most of that budget goes to stuff cut scenes rather than actually benefiting the gameplay. They should bring back FMV cutcsenes if they want to try to emulate Hollywood so badly. Maybe it's just nostalgia, but seeing real life actors on top of gameplay footage in games like Wing Commander (and other mech/space sim games), Tex Murphy and Noctropolis was actually kind of neat imo. It was stupid and declined the adventure genre (GK2) from beautiful 2D visuals, but I wouldn't mind it so much if it's tastefully done. Maybe if developers were trying to make games like Quake rather than Half Life, then we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.
You think those three are the problem? Really?
I went this over in another post a month ago or so so I cba to reiterate my opinion more elaborately, but pretentious indygames and pointless sandbox games don't require any game design finesse and are ultimately pointless or lacking in actual gameplay. I want games like Thief&Deus Ex on PC and Radiant Silvergun&Klonoa on consoles like back in the 90s, almost none of the indy shit that's flooding Steam looks competently designed.
 
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Jarpie

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Maybe crash will help rid the industry of its obsession of trying to be New Hollywood. Trying to emulate Hollywood on things Hollywood can do for a faction of the price. I saw Grand Budapest Hotel the other day. Miles ahead of any AAA video game visually (in terms of taste and artistry) and narratively, imo. $500 million on Destiny? For what? To shoot at other players with generic sci-fi guns in a derivative (for anyone who sees a lot of concept art portfolios, at least) sci-fi world, and probably no better than has been done before, with an MMO gimmick that will probably not be that big of a deal in the big picture of video game design. But them production values tho!

We need back the middle-budgeted games meant for certain audience group instead of just miniscule budget indie games and massive AAA+++ titles. The New Hollywood obsession is ridiculous, and one of the causes is IMO that new devs don't really know any other types of games. Part of the problem/reason why there's no great visual- or art style is that graphics are done in 3D, I noticed it long time ago that games done in 3D, in both first and third person, is apparently almost impossible to make look good artistically due the technology/technique.

For game to have great visual style, it really needs to be done in 2D because 3D looks too sterile - just compare point'n'click adventure games from the 90s done in 2D and adventure games done today with 3D.
 

Machocruz

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I noticed it long time ago that games done in 3D, in both first and third person, is apparently almost impossible to make look good artistically due the technology/technique.

Mostly technique imo. I've seen some stunning graphic art and animation done with 3D programs (so much so that a 2D grognard like me is learning Maya and 3DSMax), in 3D space, and they didn't rely on bleeding edge animation, texture, and lighting. But it requires more conceptual vision than "post apocalypse with zombies" or "Forgotten Realms wannabe."

I went this over in another post a month ago or so so I cba to reiterate my opinion more elaborately, but pretentious indygames and pointless sandbox games don't require any game design finesse and are ultimately pointless or lacking in actual gameplay. I want games like Thief&Deus Ex on PC and Radiant Silvergun&Klonoa on consoles like back in the 90s, almost none of the indy shit that's flooding Steam looks competently designed.

I have a bit higher opinion of recent indie games than that, but we may be on the cusp of reaching that point. Routine, Statis, hopefully Mighty No. 9, Yatagarasu, Hellraid.
 

TheGreatOne

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I think kickstarter campaigns like Mighty no 9, Star Citizen and Torment Tides of Numenera aren't really indy games the same way cheap DL only games made by 20 somethings for iOS/Steam are. Indy games have become synonymous with the kind of games that have taken over PC gaming over the last 3-4 years, after some well designed indy games like Super Meat Boy became popular at the turn of the decade.
 

Machocruz

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Oh no, I wasn't aligning them with cheap indy games, but with the core, middle-market or whatever you want to call the games you mentioned. All those games have a degree of presentation that the indy games don't have, while not being lowest common denominator, easy-mode budget busters (hopefully). Routine looks comparable to what SS2 was in its day, Statis is a graphically sumptuous adventure game, Yatagarasu is a (probably) technical fighting game done by veterans, with pro quality 2D animation, etc.

The indy games I have a higher opinion of are like Project Zomboid, Rimworld, Hotline Miami, Gunpoint.
 

DalekFlay

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We need back the middle-budgeted games meant for certain audience group instead of just miniscule budget indie games and massive AAA+++ titles. The New Hollywood obsession is ridiculous, and one of the causes is IMO that new devs don't really know any other types of games. Part of the problem/reason why there's no great visual- or art style is that graphics are done in 3D, I noticed it long time ago that games done in 3D, in both first and third person, is apparently almost impossible to make look good artistically due the technology/technique.

Agree and brofist, however improvements in engine licensing, middleware and other such shit are going to make what was "middle-tier" not long ago the new indie standard. It's only a matter of time. Look at No Man's Sky, that fucking thing is being made by like 5 people. Even years ago a game like Zeno Clash was made by a small group of South Americans in a basement. Not all small team indie shit is going to look like Paper's Please forever. Eventually we're going to get our indie Morrowind/Deus Ex/Quake 2, just like we're getting our indie Baldur's Gate now.
 

Dexter

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Maybe crash will help rid the industry of its obsession of trying to be New Hollywood. Trying to emulate Hollywood on things Hollywood can do for a faction of the price. I saw Grand Budapest Hotel the other day. Miles ahead of any AAA video game visually (in terms of taste and artistry) and narratively, imo. $500 million on Destiny? For what? To shoot at other players with generic sci-fi guns in a derivative (for anyone who sees a lot of concept art portfolios, at least) sci-fi world, and probably no better than has been done before, with an MMO gimmick that will probably not be that big of a deal in the big picture of video game design. But them production values tho!
I love Wes Anderson, in fact he might be one of my favorite directors and has directed one of my favorite movies and every one of them oozes his very specific charm, but I didn't particularly think Grand Budapest was one of his best, especially because it was somewhat overplayed by the actors and overstated (epitomized by the many needless cameos of "star actors" that seemed out of place). Enjoyed Rushmore, The Royal Tenenbaums, Darjeeling Limited, Moonrise Kingdom and Life Aquatic a lot more. If you haven't seen them and liked this so much you probably should. :P

I also don't know for what purpose you are comparing a 100 minutes long movie that people will likely pay and see once to an MMO that is supposed to keep people occupied for hundreds of hours and make them come back for recurring payments. You do realize, that while there might not exactly be that much "artistry" behind it (which is likely also for marketing reasons) there is a whole lot more work and sheer content behind it, right? And that filming something is entirely different from having to design a whole world that players will be able to explore and interact with?

Agree and brofist, however improvements in engine licensing, middleware and other such shit are going to make what was "middle-tier" not long ago the new indie standard. It's only a matter of time. Look at No Man's Sky, that fucking thing is being made by like 5 people. Even years ago a game like Zeno Clash was made by a small group of South Americans in a basement. Not all small team indie shit is going to look like Paper's Please forever. Eventually we're going to get our indie Morrowind/Deus Ex/Quake 2, just like we're getting our indie Baldur's Gate now.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-06-25-how-no-mans-sky-stole-the-show-at-e3
How could a game with this scope, and with this ambition, be coming from a team of four in Guildford?
"No!" Murray interjects. "Let's get that straight! There were four of us working on it originally, and there's like seven now. There's 10 in Hello Games in total."

Apologies for the slip-up, Sean - it turns out the team behind No Man's Sky is positively huge. "Yeah, but people go like 'it's still the four of you!' It's unfair to the others. It's become this thing with Hello Games, that it's just four guys."

Whether it's four, seven or 10 is irrelevant, though. No Man's Sky is so staggering in scope, you'd find it hard to believe a team of 200 could deliver on the vision. "At EA, where I used to work, not that anyone would greenlight it but if you would pitch the game one of the biggest things people would say is with our 200 people team we couldn't do this," says Murray. "It's too grandiose, too ambitious. We've just had to approach it from the angle of us wanting to make the game we wanted to make."
:lol:
 

Cowboy Moment

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Let's save the praise until they actually release a working game with even half the features they promised.

You can likely get away with having smaller teams as tools improve, but a game with lots of content (like BG2 or Morrowind) is realistically going to require a lot of manhours regardless. Maybe you cut it down from a dev team of 50 over two years two a dev team of 30 over the same time period, but that's still way beyond your typical indie, and likely well beyond the self-financing capabilities of most independent developers.

We better hope Divinity: Original Sin sells well, as it's pretty much the first real attempt at exactly this.
 

Machocruz

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I also don't know for what purpose you are comparing a 100 minutes long movie that people will likely pay and see once to an MMO that is supposed to keep people occupied for hundreds of hours and make them come back for recurring payments. You do realize, that while there might not exactly be that much "artistry" behind it (which is likely also for marketing reasons) there is a whole lot more work and sheer content behind it, right? And that filming something is entirely different from having to design a whole world that players will be able to explore and interact with?

You're right, it's not relevant comparison to the kind of thing I was commenting on. Just a stream of consciousness thing because of the ridiculous amount of money Activision is supposedly spending. They're not trying to offer a cinemajestic experience. But nothing I've seen or heard about the game looks like it's worth the amount of money they are spending. I don't pay attention to MMO budgets, so maybe that's the norm now. Not impressed.

And my favorite Anderson film is probably Life Aquatic, followed by Fantastic Fox and Moonrise Kingdom. I haven't seen Darjeeling.
 

DalekFlay

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You can likely get away with having smaller teams as tools improve, but a game with lots of content (like BG2 or Morrowind) is realistically going to require a lot of manhours regardless. Maybe you cut it down from a dev team of 50 over two years two a dev team of 30 over the same time period, but that's still way beyond your typical indie, and likely well beyond the self-financing capabilities of most independent developers.

That's where middleware comes into the picture. No Man's Sky is basically a set of algorithms and assets that form worlds automatically. Will that ever have the quality of a hand-placed world? No, but there's probably a happy compromise in there somewhere. Also Deus Ex is much more doable, and surprisingly small all things considered.
 
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You can likely get away with having smaller teams as tools improve, but a game with lots of content (like BG2 or Morrowind) is realistically going to require a lot of manhours regardless. Maybe you cut it down from a dev team of 50 over two years two a dev team of 30 over the same time period, but that's still way beyond your typical indie, and likely well beyond the self-financing capabilities of most independent developers.

That's where middleware comes into the picture. No Man's Sky is basically a set of algorithms and assets that form worlds automatically. Will that ever have the quality of a hand-placed world? No, but there's probably a happy compromise in there somewhere. Also Deus Ex is much more doable, and surprisingly small all things considered.

And nevertheless, games like BG2 had some dreadful tools that could be improved upon, which will still give you a magnitude's more productivity.
 

Cowboy Moment

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You can likely get away with having smaller teams as tools improve, but a game with lots of content (like BG2 or Morrowind) is realistically going to require a lot of manhours regardless. Maybe you cut it down from a dev team of 50 over two years two a dev team of 30 over the same time period, but that's still way beyond your typical indie, and likely well beyond the self-financing capabilities of most independent developers.

That's where middleware comes into the picture. No Man's Sky is basically a set of algorithms and assets that form worlds automatically. Will that ever have the quality of a hand-placed world? No, but there's probably a happy compromise in there somewhere. Also Deus Ex is much more doable, and surprisingly small all things considered.

Again, wait until it actually releases before praising the technology. Procedural world generation as a base for handcrafted content isn't anything new, fucking Bethesda did it with Oblivion. And I don't believe even for a second that the procedural generation on NMS is going to result in anything but endless reskins of the same base assets.
 

DalekFlay

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Again, wait until it actually releases before praising the technology. Procedural world generation as a base for handcrafted content isn't anything new, fucking Bethesda did it with Oblivion. And I don't believe even for a second that the procedural generation on NMS is going to result in anything but endless reskins of the same base assets.

Of course it will, but that doesn't mean the game won't be good. Depends on what you want to get out of it and how well the system is set up. I'm not saying NMS is going to be a great game, who knows, I am saying the technology is there for indie games that look like Deus Ex, not Papers Please.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
In victory, magnanimity: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-07-01-shuhei-yoshida-pays-tribute-to-phil-spencer

Shuhei Yoshida pays tribute to Phil Spencer
"He's a reasonably smart guy, compared to some other people who used to say some unbelievable things."

After blundering so badly a year ago, when it unveiled Xbox One and then had to backpedal on a lot of the system's original ideas within weeks, Microsoft was a lot humbler at E3 last month, paying tribute to its rivals and focusing on the games.

It's a message, and a tone, that was surely familiar to Sony worldwide studios boss Shuhei Yoshida. After all, it's the same one Sony adopted when it unveiled PlayStation 4 at the start of 2013, and the company has ridden that humility all the way back to the top.

"It was very interesting," Yoshida says at E3, reflecting on Microsoft's showing. "The attitude was great, like from Phil Spencer. I read and listened to his interviews, and he's a reasonably smart guy, compared to some other people who used to say some unbelievable things."

Some of those unbelievable things, of course, came from the mouth of the departed Don Mattrick in the heated days following Xbox One's announcement. In many ways Microsoft has been playing catch-up ever since, with a change in management following a change in policies that climaxed, most recently, with the removal of the expensive Kinect peripheral from the core Xbox One bundle.

"I read some articles - and I think Eurogamer was one of them - that were disappointed by what they did, and some welcomed what they did," Yoshida said. (That's not quite right - we suggested Microsoft was making the best of a bad situation.)

jpg

Shu's on the other foot now.

"Some media people totally believed they should have done it earlier, but some other media people thought it was a unique selling point. Personally, I was expecting that at some point in the future they'd unbundle Kinect, but I wasn't expecting it this early.

"My interpretation was the management change had really helped them to reset and re-sync everything. And since then they've been consistent."

Microsoft may well have been given the hurry-up by the rate at which the PS4 has outsold Xbox One. In the US Sony's console has done so for five months straight, while in the UK Watch Dogs sold twice as many copies on PS4 as it did on Xbox One. But Yoshida is adamant that nobody at Sony saw quite this result coming.

"No, no, no!" he says animatedly. "We were planning, last fiscal year, to sell five million units. That was our expectation. But we did more than seven million - and that was beyond our expectations.

"There are shortages in many markets, and there have been complaints. Cameras are sold out, and we are still catching up with demand. It's amazing. Of course we didn't have much anticipation in terms of number of units that Xbox One would sell, but I understand they're doing very well as well. Because PS4 is doing so well, the gap seems to be widening."

For Yoshida, though, the real winner is the gamer.

"I took a few interviews this morning by Japanese media," he says. All of them said to me, 'In US and Europe, the console games are running and kicking and lots of investment's being made from third parties and great games are being shown.' That amazed them, and I think it was really great for us.

"Competition really pushes everyone, Microsoft and us, to do better," Yoshida concludes. "I think in the end the consumers will win."
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-07-08-ps4-fails-to-boost-japan-console-market
PS4 fails to boost Japan console market
Doing great here. There, not so much.

The PlayStation 4 has failed to make a significant impact in Japan.

Unlike in western markets, where the PS4 has been a hit (it's the fastest-selling console in UK history), in Japan it's struggling.

jpg

Japanese magazine publisher Enterbrain released a report on the Japanese console game industry and found revenue remained static for the first half of 2014 compared to the first half of 2013 - despite the launch of the PS4 in Japan in February.

Japanese game industry consultant Dr. Serkan Toto said Enterbrain's figures revealed Japan's console market for the first half of the year was worth 1722.6m yen (£983m). In the first half of 2013 that figure was 1720.2m yen (£982m).

According to Media Create figures, the PS4 sold just over 8000 units 23-29 June 2014 - just 500 more than the PlayStation 3. That week the PS4 version of Ubisoft's open world hacking game Watch Dogs was the second best-selling game in Japan, shifting 63,000 copies.

During that period the Wii U shifted 10,000 units, the Vita sold 22,000 and the 3DS sold 27,800.

The PS4 has sold 620,000 units in Japan since going on sale in February. The Wii U is 1.8m lifetime to date, the Vita is 2.8m and the 3DS is 15.7m.

As Dr. Toto points out, in contrast to console games, the Japanese smartphone game market is projected to grow handsomely in the next few years.
 
Self-Ejected

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Imagine the next Final Fantasy being an Android exclusive.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Early Access coming to consoles? http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-07-11-sony-is-considering-an-early-access-type-program

Sony is considering an Early Access-type program
"It's something on the top of my mind every day."

Sony is looking into adding an Early Access type of deal on its platforms.

jpg

Dust 514 had a paid beta on PS3 back in 2012, suggesting there is an infrastructure for this sort of thing on consoles.

When asked about such a program at E3, SCEA's vice president of developer relations Adam Boyes told Gamasutra, "That's one of the massive conversations we have internally."

"At what point does [a game meet standards of release]?" he pondered. "We still at some point ensure that we're being mindful of the consumer. We don't want somebody to stumble across that title and expect a full product, and have a negative experience."

While Boyes seemed wary of releasing unfinished products, the man responsible for bringing so many indie titles to Sony was still intrigued at this alternative way of helping out fledgling developers. "I want to help bootstrap people," he said. "To help them out. Like supporting the underdog for a sports team."

He also noted that there are different types of gamers and many of them don't mind playing unfinished games (especially at a lower price, as Early Access titles tend to be). "There are different types of people. There [are] people who always back games, enjoy Kickstarters, try things that they know aren't finished but are willing to help make better," Boyes explained. "I remember playing Rust and laughing hysterically. And there were some things that weren't finished, but I had a ton of fun."

jpg

The Forest became the top-selling game on Steam despite only being in alpha form.

The question then is when should games be allowed on the marketplace? When they're fun? When they're polished enough that a developer is comfortable with them attaining a Metacritic score? Or when they're simply a good idea in need of playtesting like DayZ - whose developer warned players that its Early Access installment would be "a recipe for disappointment"?

"We're working through that right now," said Boyes. "We're figuring out what's okay. We obviously have our tech requirement checklist that people have to adhere to. So we're internally discussing, 'what does that list look like this? What are the caveats?' Stuff like this. So it's still a project that a lot of minds are considering. No details yet, but it's something on the top of my mind every day."

So what do you, dear readers, think of Early Access-type programs coming to PlayStation? Would you be excited to get in on the ground floor, or be weary of testing an unfinished product? On that note, enjoy the Destiny beta next week!
 

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