Proving Calis right (and responding to DU)...

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I know this is a bit of a necroresponse, but all I did was get a night's sleep and you fuckers spammed the Time Machine thread into lockdown, so... uh ... revolution!

That's not the relevant question. The question is: why is there a thread about high school massacre at the RPG Codex?

Precisely my point. Adding a tag isn't serving it's purpose, it's encouraging dumbfuckery because of the mental limitations and attention whoring of the "new breed".

Great question, and also exactly my point. Why do we tolerate them? Because banning was never the Codex way and we were overrun and unable to fight them off through posting. If the worst of the 'codex were people saying stupid things about RPGs, then a dumbfuck tag and laughing at them would be appropriate. When it's devolved into saying stupid things just to get your post count up or for god knows what other reason, it's time to show them the door. You seem to get it. You're not an "agree with me or get out" guy, that's clear from your posts, and I don't think most of the staff are that way either. What I'm saying is: "contribute to the RPG Codex or get out".

Whatever amount of useful RPG discussion will exist (and I agree there's a lot of fatigue about repeating old arguments), does anyone benefit from having to mine for interesting discussion among hordes of blatant bullshit? If it's a choice between 10 interesting posts a day at the Codex, or 1000 spam posts a day with 10 interesting ones hidden in there somewhere, the Codex should be "dead" and only have the 10 posts.

1) It doesn't serve it's purpose because it's not given to highlight that someone's (repeatedly) a dumbfuck about RPGs. It's given in response to attention-whoring stupidity that should just be eliminated, not rewarded with special status.

2) Do you really want to compare the 'Codex to SA? Is that your vision for this site? I'll say it again... the Codex used to be better than that.

I don't pretend to be an expert in fixing the codex, but here's a few ideas for staff to think about:

• - Stop worrying so much about the Codex dying or the traffic being less. Make it small and good and those who are here will be happy. Who gives a fuck if not many folks post here? To paraphrase BrotherNone, is size the Codex's raison d'etre?
  
  - Get rid of GD. Isolating it away from the main page is a very good 2nd choice. Posters that are here for GD shouldn't be here. Posters that are here for RPG discussion and would enjoy some GD on the side, can find it in the "isolated" GD forum.
  
  - DO things, don't talk about doing them, before during or after. Banning? Tagging? Ninja-editing? Retardoing? Just fucking do it and move on. If a discussion is necessary, do it amongst staff behind closed doors and don't give attention-whores more satisfaction.
  
  - Stick to your own words about the Codex not being a democracy. Get rid of the bullshit. It's not for me to decide who is or isn't such. It's for the staff. Set a 60% majority threashold or whatever, and have the staff decide who's balls to cut off. Not individual staff members. I'd say posters should be reviewed by staff every time they're up for a label upgrade. That way the first few posts are closely scrutinized, and if they are viewed by the "elite codex staff" as contributing in whatever way (yes, even lulz, if they're actually funny like Chefe used to be), then their leash gets longer and longer becuase they have more posts between each new label (and review) and can waste some posts getting into a stupid fucking pissing contest like we all sometimes do.

You said it yourself, with Saint went authority. Exert some fucking authority. The staff has the power, use it. The "anything goes" attitude of old Codex worked great when it was small and there was more signal than noise. I argue that it can't work anymore, not if the Codex is going to be even similar to what it used to be. It doesn't have to be "recreate the past", but make the Codex what the Staff want it to be and don't think for even one second about its "popularity".

Stick to General RPG Discussion and News Comments if you dont want the LULZ. Geezus, it may as well be invisible now, you have to go looking.

Maybe you should make some new, insightful post on the best implementation of C&C and we can copy and paste our last 100 responses to the question.

YES.

all these goosesteppers coming out of the woodwork making me feell like I've woken up and its suddenly idiocracy codex. I suppose its fitting that KC is modding

I wasn't suggesting a ban, Spacemoose said he needed a place to post his nonlulzy stuff and I showed him one.

I was made mod because there was a big long thread where everyone was complaining that the quality of GD was in the gutters. I'm not sure what else my "stance" is supposed to be, since spam was the complaint. Anyways, if you think I should change my stance of moderation then feel free to tell me, since you're in charge now. Or if you don't think GD should be moderated at all that's your call.

It's funny though that spam in GD is acceptable now after I just had to sit through a bunch of flak from the very people complaining about my moderation about how I did nothing but spam GD before becoming mod, complaining that their own spam was being removed. You're a bit of a hypocrite, Spacemoose.

Great post, AnalogKid

Before, dramas were about the "nazification of Codex", now it seems things have completely reverted. And no need to be a diviner to know this thread isn't going anywhere, just like the previous one.

"Codex isn't a democracy" - I see it more like a "benevolent dictatorship" where people are free to say most things, even when they are silly, so it's neither a "nazi reich" nor a "democracy" though some people seem to be to eager to pull it to one of the extremes. And as the opinions of people are heard most time, and as power isn't centered in the hands of a single member(the "admins council" from what I got from all these threads), there is a certain balance of power around to put things under check.

"Bring the banhammer now!" arguments - A Codex with the level of moderation of ESF would lose its soul, because checking General Discussion of 2002, I don't see a complete lack of LULZ threads at all, so I believe the only things that changed around was the intolerance, which seem to have grown in the last months due to some regular "Needs more moderation!" threads which funnily seem to not be so spotlighted like the "Unban -insert name here-" joke threads and the quality of the "LULZ", as the older ones are usually much more witty. If you want a place where you can report somebody for calling you a "faggot" or for posting a thread "for the Lulz" and see him banned, you're in the wrong forums. And forums like Codex are a rarity compared with the "agree with me or ban!" ones. Plus ESF proves that moderation won't solve problems involving stupidity. It's a question of encouragement as well: being answered = being encouraged. And considering certain LULZ threads in GD filled more pages of replies than most discussions about RPGs, there is a certain encouragement for some of such threads around.

Good god. Get your priorities straight. Yeah, everybody gets their panties in a bunch over something, and yours is obviously erratic admining. So VD apparently gets 3 strikes over four years. How many strikes do the legions of retards get every day? You get all fucking pensive over VD overeacting over Spacemoose which would have all probably blown over anyway, so you pull pretty much the same shit with the added twist of posting private messages. Classy. If the hands down most productive person here gets shown the door for three strikes for the sake of retards, I'm sorry, but the Codex really is dead. All the goddamn retards clamoring for VD's head in the name of the almighty Codex ethos have it wrong. The fucking Codex is not egalitarian, it's not the champion of the common man, defender of the dregs of the internet who'd get shown the door anywhere else; we're a bunch of angry, bitter, and bright cunts who see our little corner of world in a bit different light than the legions of jackasses who slobber over the newest shovelware with bloom, and we'll gladly rip anyone who crosses us a new asshole. At least we used to be before we got day jobs.

Saint fucking knew that. And VD in his own way knows that. If you've got too much other shit in your life to deal with lots of bullshit controversy, I know the feeling well. Why aren't you the one heading out the door instead of VD then? I've generally liked you in the past and thought you've done a good job, but this shabby treatment you've been giving him is total bullshit at best.

Yeah. Or put less politely, you're a scumbag

Thanks DU, that's the Codex I know.

Hopefully, VD you can swallow your pride to come back and make newsposts. Your ability to finding and presenting stupidity is second to none, always a good read.

This appears to have some truth behind it, considering that http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=20368, only two months ago, didn't result in any warnings/bans or even the retardoing of the thread, despite... Yeah, you can see for yourself, don't forget to check the second page. I'd say that thread's mighty worse than what happened in the massacre thread!

This discussion has come full circle now, so perhaps it would be for the best just to let it die down? Nonting productive will ever come from further discussion from this point on. All the points have been made and I know that I sure as fuck could do without the forthcoming backpedaling.

Doesn't come as a surprise.

Btw:

http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=442174#442174:

"Before anyone believes that shit and starts repeating it around, I can guarantee that's absolutely not true. Not one staff member was amused by that business the other day."

You lied to us, baby arm.

Good idea!

The reason that shit happened is because NL was allowed to keep his admin privileges - for the lulz I guess, even though he didn't do anything for either site. So, uh, let's not file under "Yet another VD's crime", ok?

I'm here every day, dealing with all that shit, you're here once a week. I'd say reacting instantly is better than reacting a week later, but maybe that's just me.

That's a load of crap, DU. First, Spacemoose posted those pictures instantly, thus forcing my hand. Btw, did you complain when Baby Arm banned him for a day for spamming GD? Or was it because BA did it quietly and I did it openly?

Now, the interview. I did it after BA (damn, BA again! I'm beggining to suspect that he's some kinda Zionist agent-provocateur) told me that answering my own questions, in any context, was a stupid idea and that I made an ass out of myself. Then I removed it. Not to contradict your opinion, which was the real crime there, I guess, but to listen to another *active* admin.

And finally Volourn. I don't really recall a consensus of which you speak of there. I do recall several people stating that I should unban him after a day and someone even volunteered to do that for me, so that I save my face.

Besides, there is another factor here - the will of the people. You bitch at me for listening to folks here, but why shouldn't I? Why should I make decisions that go against of what the most people here want? So, let's recap. Most people wanted me to unban Volourn. Most people supported my "war efforts" (see the pre-revolution poll). You, of course, don't give a shit, but that's your problem, not mine.

New rule? Awesome. Mind you, I have no problem with you acting quickly and decisively, changing rules to deal with new situations. I have a problem with you blaming me for the same shit that you do. Now, as for the strikes business, let's see if I can play this game too:

- remember when we all voted against NSFW pictures? We all did, even Spazmo, peace be upon him. What did you do? You said that you don't give a fuck and to prove it posted tubgirl on the open forums. Very classy.

- apparently, the admins are still deciding whether or not to back me up. Discussing it for 3 days is a bit impotent, but again, maybe it's just me. What did you do? You attacked me, stating that I'm a moron, basically, and that I'll never get admin powers back, thus ensuring that I'm out for good, while Calis & Co are still discussing it. Strike two?

Anyway...

Too funny.

You're wrong.

You missed the part where I said that I need everyone's backing for the proposed "initiative".

It's true, I guess. Everyone knows that posting some disgusting shit like stabbing someone with a turd and then fucking the corpse will get my attention quickly. If elected, I promise to disregard such things and leave these threads alone. Honest!

Well, we can't have THAT, can we, dear?

You still think it's about pride? Or the coveted and prestigious admin status?

Do you truly believe that I would do something like that?

Huh? I merely replied to DU's "VD is a moron unfit to govern" campaign. You can't blame me for that, can you? As far as I know I didn't make any a-la Rex threads demanding or complaining about something. Like I said, I'm ok with being a private citizen, and I'll be more than happy to leave these discussions alone, assuming DU will stop throwing shit at me.

Here is an advice. Lock this thread and retardo any follow ups. What's done is done. Like you said, we can't turn time back. Let's move on.

That's the trouble right there.

Not really. The old ways no longer work - in my humble opinion, of course. I thought that what needed was a decisive policy shift, supported and enforced by all admins. That's what it was about. Not "you are with me or against me" crap.

VD imho the old ways do work, all we need are some more topics to discuss. People get bored when there are few news posts (and they've been few and far between recently) to discuss and there will be more retarded topics. In a sense, retarded GD discussions that are for enterntainment are good to keep this site interesting when there are nothing else going on. And if people can't have that little breather then it's going to be frustrating and boring around here. There are people like me here I'm sure that like to follow both the RPG discussions and the GD discussions.

The change of the website to as of now is great, the new format encourages RPG discussion, and GD is pretty dead. That's because there's more RPG news to actually talk about.

VD, this is probably the best thing that could happen, think about it:
1. You get to do something fun: posting news instead of moderating
2. With more newsposters there's always something interesting RPG related to discuss
3. You can spend more time on AoD
4. You got DU and Calis to become active mods

The only downside is that you don't have the ultimate powahs to ban people, but you never enjoyed that anyway?

Disagree.

Nothing else going on? Did you miss all the excitement about the Witcher and MotB? As for the fewer number of newsposts latety, there wasn't much to report. Newsposts like "interview with a composer" or "game X is delayed" /"game X will be released soon" won't generate a lot of interest or discussions. We've always filtered down the news stream to something relevant or entertaining. No offense to the new news team, of course. They should report whatever they like.

Maybe. Maybe not.

If Calis and DU were interested in cleaning up the place, I would have been more than happy to leave all that shit to them. However, since we disagree on both the definition of the problem and required solutions, I doubt that would happen.

Good job emo kid, here I was not trying to get into all of this bullshit... and you put up a PM I sent in response to you. Bravo.

Look, VD fucked up, it's obvious. He's proved he can be as much of a dumbfuck as anyone.

This thread, and the one surely to follow when it's locked, don't have a place on the site. A couple of mewling vaginas going back and fucking forth when you're all supposed to be grown men.

If VD didn't care about his admin status, he would contribute content/news regardless of his status. It's as simple as that.

Keep your admin discussions to yourselves. On one hand you remove GD from the ticker, on the other hand you allow threads like this one in feedback, which bypass the ticker. Be a little more thorough, gentlemen.

EDIT: Hey! My PM! I just realized I followed through on "thou" with "though" lulz, amirite?

Oh, shut up about the stupid not caring about admin/returning to news posts stuff. Nobody wants to be "forced" to return as a peasant where they were once a ruler, it'd be humiliating and embarrassing each time he posted. It'd be like a cloud hanging over his head "I was once an admin but they shut me off and kicked me down." Do you remember Exitium's posts here after being demoted, pretending like he didn't notice, how pathetic that was? And you'd have all of the idiots who didn't like him parading it in his face, it just doesn't work.

Either he gets the "full clear" or he's not gonna come back, and I think most people would do the same.

Yeah, that's a pretty apt way to describe his feelings. "He loves the Codex so much, but why should he do it without getting something out of it?"

Well said.

Which is why I said that when we ban idiots we ban all their idiotic supporters as well. Good arguments explaining why someone shouldn't have banned should be encouraged. Dumb "unban true patriot X!" posts shouldn't. Cassidy's posts are a good example of that. Maybe when Cassidy is no longer able to express himself through stupid posts, he will focus on contributing something more meaningful, as overall, he's an alright guy.

Well, obviously it's much easier to tolerate some shit when one shows up once a week.

And I wish you luck with implementing one.

The community is fine and doesn't require shaping. The problems are old "everything goes" rules that weren't designed with "let's welcome all retards and make them feel at home", and some people who are taking advantage of that rule and are here exclusively for the lulz.

Again. I didn't ask to give me free reign. I asked you to support me (if you agree with my definition of the problem) and stand with me, restoring the forums where they once were. If you disagree, which you did, then you're better off without me as having admins pulling into different directions and undermining each other is bad for the site. Simple as that. No personal drama. I sincerely hope that you are right and that you can improve the site with a more undomesticated snowman approach.

Where? I simply disagreed with my powers being taken away arbitrarily and with DU's open statements. Surely you can understand. I would have preferred to discuss everything together, see different arguments, argue and compromise if necessary. Had we failed to agree on something within a day or two, I would have stepped down myself, with less drama and a suitable, inoffensive for other admins, explanation.

Discuss where and how? I was discussing it with you via emails. You stopped responding at some point and never offered me your position, even though I asked for it. I stated that starting with a ban would be too extreme and that warning "the usual suspects" would be a better idea. Is that not a willingness to discuss rationally? Come on, Calis.

I was only given an opprtunity to respond to DU's statements. You and Shagnak tried to avoid making any statements, thus leaving me in the dark about different opinions. At this point I have no fucking idea what this alternative to what I suggested is. Anyway, like I said, considering how everything was handled, let's leave everything as is and move on. I have absolutely no problems with that. No hard feelings either.

Exactly. I don't know why that's considered something bad.

We're not starving children, there's no need for him to give us charity news posting without any benefit to him.

This is a web forum. Your sentence is too melodramatic for the circumstances.