Eternity Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Pre-Release Thread [BETA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Fairfax]

I don't think you guys should worry about the other stretch goals. In addition to paypal pledges, they still haven't offered investments to non-accredited investors, and they'll probably make another private offering for the accredited investors they know. According to their annual report, they did another one for WL3 last month, unless I misunderstood something:

In January 2017, Fig WL3, LLC, a limited liability company of which the issuer is the managing member, closed a Proposed Regulation D Offering and issued 965 WL3 Units (such Units being associated with the game Wasteland 3) to accredited investors, for an aggregate consideration of $965,000. To date, it has received $925,015 of that amount and expects to receive the remainder upon the expiration of ACH transaction waiting periods.

PoE2 should have no problem raising another 600k.

 

[Infinitron]

I don't think you guys should worry about the other stretch goals. In addition to paypal pledges, they still haven't offered investments to non-accredited investors, and they'll probably make another private offering for the accredited investors they know. According to their annual report, they did another one for WL3 last month, unless I misunderstood something:

In January 2017, Fig WL3, LLC, a limited liability company of which the issuer is the managing member, closed a Proposed Regulation D Offering and issued 965 WL3 Units (such Units being associated with the game Wasteland 3) to accredited investors, for an aggregate consideration of $965,000. To date, it has received $925,015 of that amount and expects to receive the remainder upon the expiration of ACH transaction waiting periods.

PoE2 should have no problem raising another 600k.

Not sure if what they raise that way counts towards stretch goals though. They might be planning to use that funding elsewhere.

 

[Fairfax]

Josh has said that all spellcasting will be slower now, with the risk of spell interruption. If a wizard is only going to get out three or four spells in every battle while having to avoid enemy fire, that can't be called a spamfest.

That's worse. It'll be like MMOs, with an optimal rotation that you have to repeat in every encounter.

 

[Infinitron]

Josh has said that all spellcasting will be slower now, with the risk of spell interruption. If a wizard is only going to get out three or four spells in every battle while having to avoid enemy fire, that can't be called a spamfest.

That's worse. It'll be like MMOs, with an optimal rotation that you have to repeat in every encounter.

The "repetitive" part would hopefully be dealt with smarter enemy AI and an increased emphasis on immunities, counter-spelling, etc.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

I don't think you guys should worry about the other stretch goals. In addition to paypal pledges, they still haven't offered investments to non-accredited investors, and they'll probably make another private offering for the accredited investors they know. According to their annual report, they did another one for WL3 last month, unless I misunderstood something:

In January 2017, Fig WL3, LLC, a limited liability company of which the issuer is the managing member, closed a Proposed Regulation D Offering and issued 965 WL3 Units (such Units being associated with the game Wasteland 3) to accredited investors, for an aggregate consideration of $965,000. To date, it has received $925,015 of that amount and expects to receive the remainder upon the expiration of ACH transaction waiting periods.

PoE2 should have no problem raising another 600k.

Not sure if what they raise that way counts towards stretch goals though. They might be planning to use that funding elsewhere.

I think the majority of funding for PoE2 is coming from Obsidian themselves. Money raised in the campaign I think would go towards fleshing out the game, including stretch goals.

 

[FreeKaner]

Josh has said that all spellcasting will be slower now, with the risk of spell interruption. If a wizard is only going to get out three or four spells in every battle while also having to avoid enemy fire, that can't be called a spamfest.

Opportunity cost and risk involved with casting lies within the realm of strategical depth for resource management, not outside of it. So yes, they can adjust resource management in other ways but it's still resource management. Opportunity cost also already exists within vancian casting system, it's not one or the other, removing vancian casting leaves behind only the opportunity cost. It likely will end up like 1.0 cipher for all casters, bear in mind PoE 1.0 also had quite bit of interrupts and long casting times on cipher spells. Unless they have 1 or 2 per-encounter spells per level of spells.

 

[Infinitron]

Unless they have 1 or 2 per-encounter spells per level of spells.

If Empower is going to be used to replenish per-encounter, they might.

 

[Maculo]

I do not disagree with additional resource to make spells stronger but getting rid of per-rest spells and using that as the trade-off sounds forced indeed. I feel like it's going to be PoE 1.0 all over again and will require 1 years of patching for combat to be respectable. It's such an unnecessary change and seemingly only because people rested too much. When I played PoTD I rested too little I couldn't pick up all the camping supplies laying around.

I think for it to work they will need to have really limited amount of per-encounter resources per spell level and with a necessity to expand empower for encounters that take longer. If they don't do it that way they will come around to it over few patches, think of how cipher went from being able to spam spells at will to being able to only cast one or two powerful spells per encounter due upscaled focus cost and reduced starting focus.

Another potential issue is that not all classes will benefit from empowered spells in the same way. I would assume Ciphers and Wizards would get more mileage out of empowered spells than a Fighter. For example, Wizard receives empowered fireball, Cipher receives empowered domination, and Fighter receives, what? Empowered knockdown? Empowered defense?

Still, I like the idea of empower, and I would like it to work. I just do not know how you would balance it without it being necessary for some encounters. Even if Obsidian did balance encounters around empower, would that make it good gameplay? I liked how empower was balanced in HoMMV to level the playing field, but we have multiple classes to consider.

 

[Bleed the Man]

Unless they have 1 or 2 per-encounter spells per level of spells.

If Empower is going to be used to replenish per-encounter, they might.

One of the posts made by Sawyer in SA during the campaign used an example of 2/2/1 of per encounter resources for a wizard, so yeah, that seems to be the goal.

 

[Moth]

Not sure if what they raise that way counts towards stretch goals though. They might be planning to use that funding elsewhere.

Another successful post-production marketing campaign, perhaps?

 

[FreeKaner]

I do not disagree with additional resource to make spells stronger but getting rid of per-rest spells and using that as the trade-off sounds forced indeed. I feel like it's going to be PoE 1.0 all over again and will require 1 years of patching for combat to be respectable. It's such an unnecessary change and seemingly only because people rested too much. When I played PoTD I rested too little I couldn't pick up all the camping supplies laying around.

I think for it to work they will need to have really limited amount of per-encounter resources per spell level and with a necessity to expand empower for encounters that take longer. If they don't do it that way they will come around to it over few patches, think of how cipher went from being able to spam spells at will to being able to only cast one or two powerful spells per encounter due upscaled focus cost and reduced starting focus.

Another potential issue is that not all classes will benefit from empowered spells in the same way. I would assume Ciphers and Wizards would get more mileage out of empowered spells than a Fighter. For example, Wizard receives empowered fireball, Cipher receives empowered domination, and Fighter receives, what? Empowered knockdown? Empowered defense?

Still, I like the idea of empower, and I would like it to work. I just do not know how you would balance it without it being necessary for some encounters. Even if Obsidian did balance encounters around empower, would that make it good gameplay? I liked how empower was balanced in HoMMV to level the playing field, but we have multiple classes to consider.

Empower of Dungeon in HOMMV is basically an additional level of resource management to an already mana costly castle which then needs to spend a day to replenish mana. It's very costly.

 

[Fairfax]

Josh has said that all spellcasting will be slower now, with the risk of spell interruption. If a wizard is only going to get out three or four spells in every battle while having to avoid enemy fire, that can't be called a spamfest.

That's worse. It'll be like MMOs, with an optimal rotation that you have to repeat in every encounter.

The "repetitive" part would hopefully be dealt with smarter enemy AI and an increased emphasis on immunities, counter-spelling, etc.

It would only add a simple RPS to the optimal rotations, while the slower spellcasting would make optimal spells more important and punish experimentation.

 

[Maculo]

I am wondering if rather empower spells, the empower mechanic could do something different for each class. For example, it would: give Ciphers 25 focus; give fights 25% extra health for a duration; give Rogues a free sneak attack, etc.

Empower of Dungeon in HOMMV is basically an additional level of resource management to an already mana costly castle which then needs to spend a day to replenish mana. It's very costly.

It was great addition in my opinion, especially when you were outnumbered.

 

[FreeKaner]

I wondering if rather empower spells, the empower mechanic does something different for each class. For example, it would: give Ciphers 25 focus; give fights 25% extra health for a duration; give Rogues a free sneak attack, etc.

No, it's static across all classes as far as I understood, basically adding "power level" to spell. "Power level" which determines the strength of spells you cast, which is tied to multiclassing to make that viable across classes with empower.

 

[Maculo]

I wondering if rather empower spells, the empower mechanic does something different for each class. For example, it would: give Ciphers 25 focus; give fights 25% extra health for a duration; give Rogues a free sneak attack, etc.

No, it's static across all classes as far as I understood, basically adding "power level" to spell. "Power level" which determines the strength of spells you cast, which is tied to multiclassing to make that viable across classes with empower.

My post was missing the word "could" in it. I am typing too quickly and not paying attention.

What I meant to type is I wonder if the empower system would be better if it offered "buffs" instead of empowering a single spell. For example, rather than stronger fireballs, empower gives Wizards a spell back or gives Ciphers some free focus, etc. In my mind, that would add an extra "oomph" to a class without it being a straight damage increase. Moreover, I think would allow the players to plan how to best use empower. For example, if you know the boss will hit hard, you can have your Fighter pop empower to give extra staying power, or if it is a long fight you can give Wizards some extra spells to cast.

 

[Infinitron]

It would only add a simple RPS to the optimal rotations, while the slower spellcasting would make optimal spells more important and punish experimentation.

And Vancian spellcasting only adds a simple requirement to rest before every battle. I mean look, BG2's battles didn't need you to enter them with your spellbook half-empty to be good. Not saying PoE2 will reach that level but this isn't necessarily as important as people think.

 

[Prime Junta]

And Vancian spellcasting only adds a simple requirement to rest before every battle. I mean look, BG2's battles didn't need you to enter them with your spellbook half-empty to be good. Not saying PoE2 will reach that level but this isn't necessarily as important as people think.

It's not the battles that are the problem. It's shepherding the spellbook in and of itself. Pushing forward to see how far you can go before you have to rest. That requires strategic resource management with teeth. All the new system will do is have me hoard my Empowers and hit every fight at full strength.

Replacing Endurance/Health with Wounds will only work if character knockouts are a lot more frequent than in P1 – Josh said so himself – and I reeeaaallly doubt that's gonna work. You'd have to balance it at a razor's edge: get frequent-enough knockouts to make rest management a thing, but somehow not get TPWs that would upset the goons.

I.e. that part is pure however you want to spin it.

 

[Infinitron]

It's not the battles that are the problem. It's shepherding the spellbook in and of itself. Pushing forward to see how far you can go before you have to rest.

Hence the "IMO" in my original claim!

 

[Maculo]

It's not the battles that are the problem. It's shepherding the spellbook in and of itself. Pushing forward to see how far you can go before you have to rest. That requires strategic resource management with teeth. All the new system will do is have me hoard my Empowers and hit every fight at full strength.

Replacing Endurance/Health with Wounds will only work if character knockouts are a lot more frequent than in P1 – Josh said so himself – and I reeeaaallly doubt that's gonna work. You'd have to balance it at a razor's edge: get frequent-enough knockouts to make rest management a thing, but somehow not get TPWs that would upset the goons.

I.e. that part is pure however you want to spin it.

Wounds have to come from more than just knockouts. I do not see how Obsidian can balance it around just knockouts, especially on PotD when your casters will get eaten alive without a tank.

Enemies would (will?) need a chance to inflict wounds (RNG) or have certain abilities that will inflict wounds if you do not manage or avoid them (I would prefer this, because fighters would be useful with on demand knockdown).

 

[Fairfax]

And Vancian spellcasting only adds a simple requirement to rest before every battle. I mean look, BG2's battles didn't need you to enter them with your spellbook half-empty to be good. Not saying PoE2 will reach that level but this isn't necessarily as important as people think.

It's not the battles that are the problem. It's shepherding the spellbook in and of itself. Pushing forward to see how far you can go before you have to rest. That requires strategic resource management with teeth. All the new system will do is have me hoard my Empowers and hit every fight at full strength.

Replacing Endurance/Health with Wounds will only work if character knockouts are a lot more frequent than in P1 – Josh said so himself – and I reeeaaallly doubt that's gonna work. You'd have to balance it at a razor's edge: get frequent-enough knockouts to make rest management a thing, but somehow not get TPWs that would upset the goons.

I.e. that part is pure however you want to spin it.

It forces the player to make do with what's available, and spending too much without resting leaves the player half-cocked in the next encounter, which requires even more careful decisions. The only downside is that in most CRPGs with vancian magic you can always be at full strength, as long as you're willing to suffer multiple loading screens.

The more frequent knockouts will lead players to go for safe spamming (or read guides to find the optimal sequence). If the 1st option doesn't work on a certain enemy, there's the 2nd and perhaps the 3rd. Very little depth to it. With a party of 5, each knockout will be more impactful (1/5 x 1/6 of the party gone), and that will encourage defensive, reactive play, with more weight to party roles. With Sawyer's love for 4E, I'd expect POTD to be all about Leader Striker Defender Controller nonsense.

 

[Parabalus]

Wounds have to come from more than just knockouts. I do not see how Obsidian can balance it around just knockouts, especially on PotD when your casters will get eaten alive without a tank.

Enemies would (will?) need a chance to inflict wounds (RNG) or have certain abilities that will inflict wounds if you do not manage or avoid them (I would prefer this, because fighters would be useful with on demand knockdown).

I hope they don't do that.

Oh I won a battle, nobody died, but the enemy fighter hit his 5% chance to maim me? Do I reload?

I find that degenerate, better to just make the encounters harder so you are more likely to get knocked out. Dungeon Rats had something similar in the later patch with the Stat DMG on crits, didn't really like it, but in that game at least it's an effective toll on health supplies since the cures are also made from cassava roots, PoE doesn't have that added dimension.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I wonder how much more powerful would an empowered spell be relative to a non-empowered one? If the answer is something like "x3", then you can think of the new system as vancian where you have every known spell memorized.

I would prefer something like such a system (if I am imagining it correctly) to a reality where I memorize some spells, go into the dungeon, find out I should have memorized other more appropriate spells for these encounters. Then I would either make due anyway (which feels gud), or I have to go back and memorize the right spells and then return.

 

[Maculo]

Wounds have to come from more than just knockouts. I do not see how Obsidian can balance it around just knockouts, especially on PotD when your casters will get eaten alive without a tank.

Enemies would (will?) need a chance to inflict wounds (RNG) or have certain abilities that will inflict wounds if you do not manage or avoid them (I would prefer this, because fighters would be useful with on demand knockdown).

I hope they don't do that.

Oh I won a battle, nobody died, but the enemy fighter hit his 5% chance to maim me? Do I reload?

I find that degenerate, better to just make the encounters harder so you are more likely to get knocked out. Dungeon Rats had something similar in the later patch with the Stat DMG on crits, didn't really like it, but in that game at least it's an effective toll on health supplies since the cures are also made from cassava roots, PoE doesn't have that added dimension.

While I do not disagree, wounds have be more common to matter. Personally, I would prefer a system where enemies have abilities that cause/guarantee a wound. At that point, you can either dodge (take an engagement hit) or interrupt.

 

[jungl]

I been playing battle bros a lot and I been thinking between it and sir techs jagged alliance and wizardry 8. Wouldn't it be cool if pillars had some sort of morale/resolve system. Certain companions fight better slightly as group and piss themselves if shit gets bad like aloth or if you told him not to banish Estramere or w.e her name is he has the "psycho" trait so when shit looks bad he gets psyched up.

 

[Quillon]

Wounds have to come from more than just knockouts. I do not see how Obsidian can balance it around just knockouts, especially on PotD when your casters will get eaten alive without a tank.

Enemies would (will?) need a chance to inflict wounds (RNG) or have certain abilities that will inflict wounds if you do not manage or avoid them (I would prefer this, because fighters would be useful with on demand knockdown).

I hope they don't do that.

Oh I won a battle, nobody died, but the enemy fighter hit his 5% chance to maim me? Do I reload?

I find that degenerate, better to just make the encounters harder so you are more likely to get knocked out. Dungeon Rats had something similar in the later patch with the Stat DMG on crits, didn't really like it, but in that game at least it's an effective toll on health supplies since the cures are also made from cassava roots, PoE doesn't have that added dimension.

While I do not disagree, wounds have be more common to matter. Personally, I would prefer a system where enemies have abilities that cause/guarantee a wound. At that point, you can either dodge (take an engagement hit) or interrupt.

Critical hits when below a certain per cent of health should have a chance to cause a wound. Otherwise it would be irritating to get wounded when your characters are above 50 or 60 per cent HP.

I been playing battle bros a lot and I been thinking between it and sir techs jagged alliance and wizardry 8. Wouldn't it be cool if pillars had some sort of morale/resolve system. Certain companions fight better slightly as group and piss themselves if shit gets bad like aloth or if you told him not to banish Estramere or w.e her name is he has the "psycho" trait so when shit looks bad he gets psyched up.

Seems they'll do that kinda thing for the ship crew, would be cool if they extend it to companions but its more systemic than organic