KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[HansDampf]

Now you also have to option to manually take control of the cross-hair and fine-tune your aim (or shoot at cover if you want). This shouldn't be confused with the Sniper ability which snaps to body parts and gives a massive aim bonus.

If bullets are simulated and the game just checks if a bullet collides with the enemy's hitbox, wouldn't idle animations affect your hit chance?

 

[UnstableVoltage]

If bullets are simulated and the game just checks if a bullet collides with the enemy's hitbox, wouldn't idle animations affect your hit chance?

The idle animations go into slow "bullet-time" while you aim.

 

[HansDampf]

But they do make a difference? Meaning I could still wait for the right moment to maximize hit chance?

 

[Viata]

Diablo 2 was a carbon copy of Diablo

Diablo 1 is still the best of its genre. And sadly, as far as I know, no Diablo-clone do that 1 big fucking dungeon and 1 single city.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

And sadly, as far as I know, no Diablo-clone do that 1 big fucking dungeon and 1 single city.

What, not even Torchlight 1 does it for ya?

 

[Jack Dandy]

Diablo 2 was a carbon copy of Diablo

Diablo 1 is still the best of its genre. And sadly, as far as I know, no Diablo-clone do that 1 big fucking dungeon and 1 single city.

If you don't mind the dungeons not being random, you should check out Xanadu Next.

 

[Mustawd]

Julian's main concern with multiple shots is that standing still and doubling or even tripling your firepower every turn means that standing still becomes very powerful. We don't want to design a game where the optimal way to play is to just camp in the corner of the map (and I have to agree with him - it's a good point).

Seems there could be an opportunity with the willpower system to make multiple shots a useable strategy, but an expensive one willpower-wise. At least expensive enough to not make it a viable strategy to camp, but one in which it’s a cost/benefit decision to the player.

 

[Grotesque]

Diablo 2 was a carbon copy of Diablo

Diablo 1 is still the best of its genre. And sadly, as far as I know, no Diablo-clone do that 1 big fucking dungeon and 1 single city.

Diablo 1 is superior to Diablo 2 in game atmosphere only.
But becausue nearly nobody gives a fuck for atmosphere in games, that's why I've permitted myself to add it to the list because the consensus is clear in that regard.

 

[Mustawd]

Julian's main concern with multiple shots is that standing still and doubling or even tripling your firepower every turn means that standing still becomes very powerful. We don't want to design a game where the optimal way to play is to just camp in the corner of the map (and I have to agree with him - it's a good point).

Seems there could be an opportunity with the willpower system to make multiple shots a useable strategy, but an expensive one willpower-wise. At least expensive enough to not make it a viable strategy to camp, but one in which it’s a cost/benefit decision to the player.

On second thought, it then becomes an optimal strategy for the enemy to turtle and shoot multiple shots like crazy.


EDIT: Actually, do we even know if the willpower system appliies to the enemy?

 

[UnstableVoltage]

Julian's main concern with multiple shots is that standing still and doubling or even tripling your firepower every turn means that standing still becomes very powerful. We don't want to design a game where the optimal way to play is to just camp in the corner of the map (and I have to agree with him - it's a good point).

Seems there could be an opportunity with the willpower system to make multiple shots a useable strategy, but an expensive one willpower-wise. At least expensive enough to not make it a viable strategy to camp, but one in which it’s a cost/benefit decision to the player.

This was the original plan (and if multiple shots don't make it in, is still the plan). Firing or performing certain actions would only be allowed once per turn, but you could spend willpoints to chain additional actions when needed.

 

[Viata]

dungeons not being random

That is a reason to play the game. Thanks, I'll try it.

What, not even Torchlight 1 does it for ya?

I have not played the game. The colorful graphics put me away once, but I'll try it too, thanks.

 

[GrainWetski]

How is shooting multiple times being the best strategy in some situations ever an issue? The AI being so unbelievably bad that "camping in one corner of the map" is always the best strategy would be the issue.

I still fail see how this ends up as anything more than a FiraXCOM made by slightly less retarded developers, but I refrain from becoming positive about any game these days as it just leads to disappointment so maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Jack Dandy]

dungeons not being random

That is a reason to play the game. Thanks, I'll try it.

It's a really great Action-RPG. Good combat, very nice atmosphere, and extremely satisfying dungeon exploration.
As long as you're not one of the spergs who hate anything Japanese, I think you'll dig it.

 

[The Fish]

Julian's main concern with multiple shots is that standing still and doubling or even tripling your firepower every turn means that standing still becomes very powerful. We don't want to design a game where the optimal way to play is to just camp in the corner of the map (and I have to agree with him - it's a good point).

Isn't that why you have enemies with front facing shields, to force the player to move and flank?

It's obviously the big concern with having the more simulationist action point system but I would think there are enough ways to punish static players. You could have fire effects on tiles that do damage over time or enemy flanking enemy movement.

 

[Shog-goth]

This was the original plan (and if multiple shots don't make it in, is still the plan). Firing or performing certain actions would only be allowed once per turn, but you could spend willpoints to chain additional actions when needed.

Regarding multiple shots I think "ammunition preservation" and "inventory optimization" are important factors to be considered: in a post-apocalyptic world resources and manufactoring must be scarce so "camping in a corner", with its corollary of inaccurate/missed shots and wasted ammo, wouldn't probably be (at least early/mid game) a viable and sound strategy. And plausible inventory management also advise against be armed to the teeth, taking up too much space and weight.

 

[luinthoron]

I guess this is where the enemy will bring in artillery and snipers. You sit in one spot, you die there without ever knowing what hit you.

 

[ArchAngel]

You could sit in one spot in X-com as well. Then an alien grenade would suddenly come over and blow up that strategy.

 

[Israfael]

Why should it be even an issue ? Why force player to act in a certain way? It's like nu-Diablo or WoW PVP and raiding all over again - developers are pigeonholing people into a singular strategy and saying 'you should play this way or else', promptly banning or screwing with any sort of creativity beyond that (like CM mage in early vanilla D3 or WW barbarian). Just add grenades or psychic powers and let the system rule it out by itself. Camping is boring in any case, and people would simply get tired of it, eventually, especially if penalty of moving to suboptimal strategy is not very high (that's the reason for overwatch spam in nu-xcom)

 

[ArchAngel]

Why should it be even an issue ? Why force player to act in a certain way? It's like nu-Diablo or WoW PVP and raiding all over again - developers are pigeonholing people into a singular strategy and saying 'you should play this way or else', promptly banning or screwing with any sort of creativity beyond that (like CM mage in early vanilla D3 or WW barbarian). Just add grenades or psychic powers and let the system rule it out by itself. Camping is boring in any case, and people would simply get tired of it, eventually, especially if penalty of moving to suboptimal strategy is not very high (that's the reason for overwatch spam in nu-xcom)

Haha, you have not seen people play Long War 1 on higher difficulties

 

[HansDampf]

Players tend to find and use the best strategy no matter how boring or retarded it is. Like waiting for the right idle animation frame to maximize hit chance.

 

[Israfael]

Haha, you have not seen people play Long War 1 on higher difficulties

Players tend to find and use the best strategy no matter how boring or retarded it is. Like waiting for the right idle animation frame to maximize hit chance.

You missed critically important part of that sentence - "if penalty of moving to suboptimal strategy is not very high (that's the reason for overwatch spam in nu-xcom)". Any deviation from optimal strategy is a death sentence in nuxcom, you'd loose support and eventually loose if you have any significant losses of manpower (which will happen if you start to employ risky strategies)

 

[ArchAngel]

At least enemies usually didn't get one shot in nuXcom unlike X-com. So moving in X-com would also be a risky strategy if aliens didn't have tools to frack up your group up and wait tactics (in addition to alien grenades and psi weapons they usually had better reaction fire than your troops and could show up and shoot your guys before they got to shoot back).

 

[Jimmious]

If camping in a corner of the map is a valid tactic, it's the AI that needs work - not the game systems.
Basic "flushing out" tactics have been implemented in a lot of games over the years.
Grenades, sniping, flanking... There are lots of ways to make someone move from cover

 

[LESS T_T]

Julian Gollop's upcoming talk at Reboot conference sounds very interesting: http://www.rebootdevelop.hr/RebootDevelop2018_Schedule_prefinal.pdf

Saturday, 21th of April - 11:30-12:30
Time Units vs 2 Action Points - the Raging Controversy (Design)

Jullian Gollop, Snapshot Games

Hope this one will be recorded!

Also panel with Sawyer and others:

Friday, 20th of April - 17:30-18:30
PANEL: Evolving the Genre

Panelists: Jullian Gollop, Patrice Desilets, Charles Cecil, Josh Sawyer, Moderator: Dan Pearson

 

[Shog-goth]

Saturday, 21th of April - 11:30-12:30
Time Units vs 2 Action Points - the Raging Controversy (Design)

Jullian Gollop, Snapshot Games