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Path of Exile is a MAJESTIC incline
- Thread starter Kane
- Start date
Increased is always additive with other increased modifiers (unless it's local increase, which is obviously not the case here). If you only care about es, this is effectively like taking 100% increased energy shield from the tree.
Probably not unless your other es gear is amazing, but I didn't play for like a year so don't take my word for it, for all I know things might have changed.
Yes.
Correct, damage over time never hits.
How something performs in normal usually isn't a good indication of how it's gonna do in maps.
T. Reich
Arcane
T. Reich
extra question about http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Skin_of_the_Loyal because its quite cheap...
Its hard for me to find out how global defences are calculated - im interested in ES only.
Lets say I have base ES from items+other sources of 1k. Does it make it 2k and then applies multipliers from tree or it adds 100% to multiplier? Im trying to find out if it can be viable chest for CI if you get enough ES from other parts.
It would also pump up empower higher, so with lvl3 empower Ill have total +4 to lvl of gems slotted?
other random questions. I know im reinventing a wheel but planning is the only part of game i enjoy and reason Im comming back. For sure gameplay isnt. Also I ask about stuff I couldnt find answers
does it make sense to have both that cry and profane bloom?
regarding poison: Ive red somewhere that ED spread by contagion doesnt qualify as "hit". Due to that poison can be applied only by initial hit of ED -> so it doesnt go over 1 stack. Is it correct? Is this 1 stack on bosses worth that much? Thats why I was thinking bino -> to multiply those stacks on bosses by clearing their minions.
Other than that it feels extremely powerful. My Ed dot alone was at 2k when finishing normal diff.
SotL's global defenses bonus is gobal "increased" for ES, and as such it's additive with other % increased ES bonuses you get from passives and int. Basically, how good it is will strongly depend on how much flat ES you've got on other gear pieces.
Simple example:
1) Your typical average CI build would have, say, approx 300% increased ES from passives and int.
2) Therefore, a 700 ES body armour would provide 700*(100+300)/100=2,8k flat ES after all increases.
3) SotL replaces that 700 ES with another +100% instead.
4) So, to get 2,8k ES with that bonus, you'd need to have approx 2,8k flat ES combined from all your other gear. Which is unrealistic, even if you use the high ES shield.
Might work better with trickster though - he has access to extra flat ES.
Well, this is the price you pay for getting access to +1 gems on it. Yes, if you decide to use SotL, empower would be a good choice. GGGGBR colours.
Profane Bloom only has a % chance of activating. It's a nice clear speed addition, but ACry simply is better if you want to clear those beefy blue packs with one huge screen-spanning chain explosion.
Then again, ED does just fine without ACry, but it really benefits if you can spare the links.
On poison:
* yes, contagion doesn't spread ED's poison, poison can only be spread via bino's unque effect.
* and it totally doesn't matter because weaker mobs will die super-fast to ED's base degen.
* poison on ED is for faster killing of blue packs (gotta kill the first mob to start killing others via contagion), and for murdering bosses with sustained firing.
How to kill bosses with ED:
1) summon the wither totem (wither + spell totem + faster casting + increased duration if you can spare the 4th link). I kinda forgot to mention that totem in my original post. The wither totem is your bro.
2) catch the boss when it's not moving and keep firing ED at it.
3) each hit of ED = renewed ED duration +1 poison stack.
4) poison bouble-dips on your passives and ED's supports like crazy, and its base duration also increases from your passives, effectively acting as overall damage multiplier.
Do mind that most bosses wouldn't require a prolonged barrage of ED. That prolonged firing of ED is only to speed up the inevitable. If the boss is dangerous, 1 ED hit every couple of seconds is more than enough, the rest of the time is best spent dodging its attacks.
A properly-geared endgame ED usually requires only 1 hit even on a t15 boss to kill it (1 hit per phase for multi-pase bosses obviously).
Checked it on the t16 vaal temple trio a couple of times. First of the trio goes down with 1 ED blob, second and third require 2 blobs each because they are buffed after each of trio's death.
Shaper, uber atziri and guradians will require more effort due to their insane HP bloat, but the rest will go down easily.
If you want a showcase in standard, contact me.
T. Reich
Arcane
Considering the criteria you've given, I've evaluated my build's performance, and...
...It's still up there with the best of them.
ArchAngel
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2015
- Messages
- 20,066
What you described here just confirms you don't really need poison. Poisons is only 8% of your initial hit multiplies with all same bonuses. Way, way lower than normal DoT of ED. Better to use items that will boost your ED and its own DoT then waste mods and items to use unefficient poison.T. Reich
extra question about http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Skin_of_the_Loyal because its quite cheap...
Its hard for me to find out how global defences are calculated - im interested in ES only.
Lets say I have base ES from items+other sources of 1k. Does it make it 2k and then applies multipliers from tree or it adds 100% to multiplier? Im trying to find out if it can be viable chest for CI if you get enough ES from other parts.
It would also pump up empower higher, so with lvl3 empower Ill have total +4 to lvl of gems slotted?
other random questions. I know im reinventing a wheel but planning is the only part of game i enjoy and reason Im comming back. For sure gameplay isnt. Also I ask about stuff I couldnt find answers
does it make sense to have both that cry and profane bloom?
regarding poison: Ive red somewhere that ED spread by contagion doesnt qualify as "hit". Due to that poison can be applied only by initial hit of ED -> so it doesnt go over 1 stack. Is it correct? Is this 1 stack on bosses worth that much? Thats why I was thinking bino -> to multiply those stacks on bosses by clearing their minions.
Other than that it feels extremely powerful. My Ed dot alone was at 2k when finishing normal diff.
SotL's global defenses bonus is gobal "increased" for ES, and as such it's additive with other % increased ES bonuses you get from passives and int. Basically, how good it is will strongly depend on how much flat ES you've got on other gear pieces.
Simple example:
1) Your typical average CI build would have, say, approx 300% increased ES from passives and int.
2) Therefore, a 700 ES body armour would provide 700*(100+300)/100=2,8k flat ES after all increases.
3) SotL replaces that 700 ES with another +100% instead.
4) So, to get 2,8k ES with that bonus, you'd need to have approx 2,8k flat ES combined from all your other gear. Which is unrealistic, even if you use the high ES shield.
Might work better with trickster though - he has access to extra flat ES.
Well, this is the price you pay for getting access to +1 gems on it. Yes, if you decide to use SotL, empower would be a good choice. GGGGBR colours.
Profane Bloom only has a % chance of activating. It's a nice clear speed addition, but ACry simply is better if you want to clear those beefy blue packs with one huge screen-spanning chain explosion.
Then again, ED does just fine without ACry, but it really benefits if you can spare the links.
On poison:
* yes, contagion doesn't spread ED's poison, poison can only be spread via bino's unque effect.
* and it totally doesn't matter because weaker mobs will die super-fast to ED's base degen.
* poison on ED is for faster killing of blue packs (gotta kill the first mob to start killing others via contagion), and for murdering bosses with sustained firing.
How to kill bosses with ED:
1) summon the wither totem (wither + spell totem + faster casting + increased duration if you can spare the 4th link). I kinda forgot to mention that totem in my original post. The wither totem is your bro.
2) catch the boss when it's not moving and keep firing ED at it.
3) each hit of ED = renewed ED duration +1 poison stack.
4) poison bouble-dips on your passives and ED's supports like crazy, and its base duration also increases from your passives, effectively acting as overall damage multiplier.
Do mind that most bosses wouldn't require a prolonged barrage of ED. That prolonged firing of ED is only to speed up the inevitable. If the boss is dangerous, 1 ED hit every couple of seconds is more than enough, the rest of the time is best spent dodging its attacks.
A properly-geared endgame ED usually requires only 1 hit even on a t15 boss to kill it (1 hit per phase for multi-pase bosses obviously).
Checked it on the t16 vaal temple trio a couple of times. First of the trio goes down with 1 ED blob, second and third require 2 blobs each because they are buffed after each of trio's death.
Shaper, uber atziri and guradians will require more effort due to their insane HP bloat, but the rest will go down easily.
If you want a showcase in standard, contact me.
ArchAngel
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2015
- Messages
- 20,066
OK, poison is worth it if you can get the bonus damage of the initial hit to become so large its 8% is close or more than base DoT damage. You basically double your DoT damage. But this is a simple calculations. I would need to understand the build much more and see what best support slot I could use instead of Poison Gem or instead of Sacrificial Dark dagger and do calculations from there. Also I would need to see the completed tree and all bonus damage from tree to see the total initial damage done.
CHaos resistance reduction is not applied twice, enemy has -20% chaos resistance vs all that damage. I mean it is applied twice for initial hit and ED's Dot, poison gets same reduction as DoT of ED.
Also my statement of not needing poison is based on what was said earlier of not standing around and just casting ED but running around and reapplying when you can. That gameplay reduces effects of poison by a lot and makes it more worth just going for direct buffs for ED and its own DoT.
CHaos resistance reduction is not applied twice, enemy has -20% chaos resistance vs all that damage. I mean it is applied twice for initial hit and ED's Dot, poison gets same reduction as DoT of ED.
Also my statement of not needing poison is based on what was said earlier of not standing around and just casting ED but running around and reapplying when you can. That gameplay reduces effects of poison by a lot and makes it more worth just going for direct buffs for ED and its own DoT.
T. Reich
Arcane
Not a dick. It's all nice and good on paper, but the moving picture on your screen is worth more. Especially when it tells you what to look at.
But it's no prob, up to you anyway.
And yeah, I love PoE precisely for that robust chargen. I probably spend as much time theorycrafting as I do playing.
T. Reich
Arcane
Sad to say, but you're shit at maths and/or PoE damage calculation mechanics.
Here's some stats from my char:
*ED degen 40k/sec over 5 seconds - that's after all dmg modifiers. So, a single blob of ED would do 200k degen damage for its entire duration, minus chaos res.
*ED on-hit damage is 7.1k to 10.6k = 8.9k avg dmg per hit
1) poison does 8% of initial hit damage = 0.7k/sec over 2 sec
2) poison gets modified (for my build) = x1,19 from pierce, x1.44 from contr destr, x1.39 from void manip, x1.39 from rapid decay, x1.29 from slower proj, x1.4 from zerker's ascendancy
708*1.19*1.44*1.39*1.39*1.29*1.4 = 4.2k/sec over 2 sec
3) now, let's modify that damage with our sources of increased damage. I have +231% from iron will and doon, +29% from offhand weapon with decay, +70% from quality gems, +400%-ish from passives and jewels.
4.2k*(1+2.31+0.29+0.7+4)=35.1k/sec over 2 sec
4) duration modifiers are -15% and +45% for +30% final bonus -> poison duration will be 2.6 sec
5) 35.1 * 2.6 = 91.3k degen per poison counter. Which stack, unlike ED's dot that only gets its counter refreshed.
Now add vulnerability and bonus dot from witchfire brew.
Now add +50% more damage taken from shock applied by vaal lightning trap (which double-dips for poison, hurray!).
Now add a healthy dose of extra chaos damage taken from wither totem.
See the difference now?
And I also have decay weapon mod that does base 750/sec over 10 seconds, and is modified by the same shit poisdon is.
ArchAngel
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2015
- Messages
- 20,066
Maybe you missed my 2nd post where I did admit poison is good after I did some simple math. I overestimated base DoT damage of ED, that is why I didn't think Poison is worth it. I though it is more similar to Vortex where DoT damage is closer to initial damage.
But I find ED gameplay boring and I cannot see myself ever playing it.
T. Reich
Arcane
I experimented with CWC gem at the start of Breach league.
CWC will cast the linked spell once every 0.XX seconds (as shown on the gem) in the direction of your cursor's location at the moment of triggering.
The time of the first cast will be equal to time of CWC trigger PLUS time of the first cast of the channeled skill.
That brings us to the first problem:
Base ED cast speed is 0.75.
Base ED cast speed via CWC + blight (at lvl20 gems) is 0.35 + 0.3 = 0.65.
Very small difference, and stacking cast speed (some emount is always good) will benefit selfcast ED much more (CWC trigger time can't be modified).
Damage-wise, you want 1 cast of ED to do as much work (aka damage) as possible.
Taking out 2x damage supports for CWC + blight will lose you a good deal of damage that also double-dips for poison and scales decay.
In return, you gain scalable aoe base damage from blight that is, frankly, pitiful and is similar to that of contagion; and also a 1.09x damage modifier from CWC.
And then you realise that a properly-scaled ED will clear out a contagion-ed pack much faster than it would take you to apply even a couple of blight stacks and then wait for them to work.
And then you realise that blight's dot is not transferred by contagion and is essentially lost beyond the inital mobs that you will apply maybe 1-2 weak stacks of blight to before ED takes over.
"So, what about that neat slow effect?",- I hear you say. Well, I don't know a single good ED build that doesn't use temporal chains on blasphemy. Sure, it doesn't slow their movement as much as blight does, but it also slows their attacks down, which is more important anyway, and it also dosen't require any casting to take effect. And any difference in movement speed is covered by using abysal cry, which (when paired with TC) slows down any non-boss mob to a crawl as good as blight does.
TL;DR: Bad idea - no improvement in casting speed, much less damage dealt (both aoe and single target), wonkier to use. And you still need to cast contagion for aoe clearing.
Sadly, blight is too shitty of a spell, with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
CWC will cast the linked spell once every 0.XX seconds (as shown on the gem) in the direction of your cursor's location at the moment of triggering.
The time of the first cast will be equal to time of CWC trigger PLUS time of the first cast of the channeled skill.
That brings us to the first problem:
Base ED cast speed is 0.75.
Base ED cast speed via CWC + blight (at lvl20 gems) is 0.35 + 0.3 = 0.65.
Very small difference, and stacking cast speed (some emount is always good) will benefit selfcast ED much more (CWC trigger time can't be modified).
Damage-wise, you want 1 cast of ED to do as much work (aka damage) as possible.
Taking out 2x damage supports for CWC + blight will lose you a good deal of damage that also double-dips for poison and scales decay.
In return, you gain scalable aoe base damage from blight that is, frankly, pitiful and is similar to that of contagion; and also a 1.09x damage modifier from CWC.
And then you realise that a properly-scaled ED will clear out a contagion-ed pack much faster than it would take you to apply even a couple of blight stacks and then wait for them to work.
And then you realise that blight's dot is not transferred by contagion and is essentially lost beyond the inital mobs that you will apply maybe 1-2 weak stacks of blight to before ED takes over.
"So, what about that neat slow effect?",- I hear you say. Well, I don't know a single good ED build that doesn't use temporal chains on blasphemy. Sure, it doesn't slow their movement as much as blight does, but it also slows their attacks down, which is more important anyway, and it also dosen't require any casting to take effect. And any difference in movement speed is covered by using abysal cry, which (when paired with TC) slows down any non-boss mob to a crawl as good as blight does.
TL;DR: Bad idea - no improvement in casting speed, much less damage dealt (both aoe and single target), wonkier to use. And you still need to cast contagion for aoe clearing.
Sadly, blight is too shitty of a spell, with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
T. Reich
Arcane
Some passive tree pointers:
1) You don't really need more than 1 aoe cluster for contagion to work well - better stick increased aoe gem on it, it's much more effective overall. I recommend dropping the aoe node at templar and pathing to it.
2) Similarly, 1 duration cluster is enough for the build. If you want more - use breath of the council unique scepter.
3) In the +1 curse cluster, pick 2x curse effect nodes over that one that does nothing for you. Curse effect is hella strong.
4) Zealot's oath? Pretty pointless, as I look at it. Sure, you've got some regen, but that regen will be outstripped by ES recharge that you'll be focusing on anyway. And you spend entirely too many points to get to it as well, for a fairly weak effect.
5) Therefore, overall going to templar's area of the tree is pretty pointless in my eyes. I recommend pathing through the top of witch tree instead.
6) I recommend you take that +! frenzy charge passive at shadow start. With trickster's own frenzy ascendancy, you'll be at 5x frenzy charges pretty much constantly while clearing a map. 5x FC grant you 1.2x damage multi on your damage, as well as the healthy cast speed bonus and mobility bonus for your chosen movement skill.
The rest of the tree is solid, I would've went the same way for trickster. Here's what I'd change the passive tree to:
If you want easy poison - use the consuming dark dagger. It also lets you have whirling blades. For offhand, since you were inclined to dual-wield, I strongly suggest breath of the council sceptre - extra aoe for contagion, HUGE extra duration for ED and contagion, good chaos damage boost overall. No need for gimmicky shit with snakebites, leave that to life-based bow phys+poison builds, where it belongs.
Brittle barrier is godawful. 20% more damage taken at full ES? There's a reason people go CI - to have a much larger effective life pool tosurvive large hits that life wouldn't. With that 20% more damage taken you're significantly reducing that advantage.
Leo's ES recharge mod on 2x rings plus what you get from ascendancy and passives will be more than adequate for your aims.
Crafting an ED bow is very easy, here are the alternatives (in order of increasing cost to make and also in order of increasing power):
!!!Buy a 6L bow. They're cheap! And ED will have at least 3xG sockets (more like 4xG) anyway, so it's not like chroming the bow is hard, it's not.
1) just alt-roll a +1 gems on it. Enough to get you started and give you a nice boost to damage.
2) get an essence of woe, screaming(5) or better - this shit lets you roll a high % spell damage on the bow.
3) buy a delirium essence - roll a guaranteed decay mod on the bow. You won't get much improvement for general clearing (and you don't really need it), but your single-target damage would be BEASTLY. And IF you get lucky and roll +1 gems on it, it's a BIS bow for ED.
Ideally, your craft will have a prefix left open, so you can craft Leo's "increased dot" mod for 15-30% increased dot on the bow.
1) You don't really need more than 1 aoe cluster for contagion to work well - better stick increased aoe gem on it, it's much more effective overall. I recommend dropping the aoe node at templar and pathing to it.
2) Similarly, 1 duration cluster is enough for the build. If you want more - use breath of the council unique scepter.
3) In the +1 curse cluster, pick 2x curse effect nodes over that one that does nothing for you. Curse effect is hella strong.
4) Zealot's oath? Pretty pointless, as I look at it. Sure, you've got some regen, but that regen will be outstripped by ES recharge that you'll be focusing on anyway. And you spend entirely too many points to get to it as well, for a fairly weak effect.
5) Therefore, overall going to templar's area of the tree is pretty pointless in my eyes. I recommend pathing through the top of witch tree instead.
6) I recommend you take that +! frenzy charge passive at shadow start. With trickster's own frenzy ascendancy, you'll be at 5x frenzy charges pretty much constantly while clearing a map. 5x FC grant you 1.2x damage multi on your damage, as well as the healthy cast speed bonus and mobility bonus for your chosen movement skill.
The rest of the tree is solid, I would've went the same way for trickster. Here's what I'd change the passive tree to:
If you want easy poison - use the consuming dark dagger. It also lets you have whirling blades. For offhand, since you were inclined to dual-wield, I strongly suggest breath of the council sceptre - extra aoe for contagion, HUGE extra duration for ED and contagion, good chaos damage boost overall. No need for gimmicky shit with snakebites, leave that to life-based bow phys+poison builds, where it belongs.
Brittle barrier is godawful. 20% more damage taken at full ES? There's a reason people go CI - to have a much larger effective life pool tosurvive large hits that life wouldn't. With that 20% more damage taken you're significantly reducing that advantage.
Leo's ES recharge mod on 2x rings plus what you get from ascendancy and passives will be more than adequate for your aims.
Crafting an ED bow is very easy, here are the alternatives (in order of increasing cost to make and also in order of increasing power):
!!!Buy a 6L bow. They're cheap! And ED will have at least 3xG sockets (more like 4xG) anyway, so it's not like chroming the bow is hard, it's not.
1) just alt-roll a +1 gems on it. Enough to get you started and give you a nice boost to damage.
2) get an essence of woe, screaming(5) or better - this shit lets you roll a high % spell damage on the bow.
3) buy a delirium essence - roll a guaranteed decay mod on the bow. You won't get much improvement for general clearing (and you don't really need it), but your single-target damage would be BEASTLY. And IF you get lucky and roll +1 gems on it, it's a BIS bow for ED.
Ideally, your craft will have a prefix left open, so you can craft Leo's "increased dot" mod for 15-30% increased dot on the bow.
Doktor Best
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2015
- Messages
- 2,849
I have recently started my third shot at the game and finally something clicked with me. Its funny, i clocked about 100 hours on this game so far and only now would i consider to stop calling myself a newbie in this game. The amount of gameplay-depth is simply staggering... I can easily tell this by the ungodly amount of questions i had to ask my friends, in chat, on boards, or google for.
Great fucking game.
Only thing i still cant get over with is the minimap. Whoever designed this ugly and unreadable piece of shit should be whipped with a thousand strokes. God fucking damnit i cannot stress enough how much i hate this thing.
Great fucking game.
Only thing i still cant get over with is the minimap. Whoever designed this ugly and unreadable piece of shit should be whipped with a thousand strokes. God fucking damnit i cannot stress enough how much i hate this thing.
Zdzisiu
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2009
- Messages
- 3,499
Its a remnant of the Diablo 2 days. It was the same in Diablo 2 and people lived with it, so PoE being so heavily inspired by Diablo 2 inherited the map too. I do admit, it isnt particularly good nor is it easily readable.
But what exactly is your problem with it? Remember that you can change the opacity in options, and also turn on the "always on" minimap in the corner in options too.
Doktor Best
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2015
- Messages
- 2,849
I already played around with the options. The small minimap does show a much smaller area, almost as little as you can see on screen and you cannot zoom out or make it larger. The big one with tab takes away from the atmosphere due to graphics being overlayed with that ugly piece and it also distracts you from enemies / traps. Its visibility so highly varies with the terrain youre standing on because fucking beige is maybe not a so good choice if you have a game that plays on sandy desert-terrain. The big problem is that it is also way too detailed and too "artsy" for the sake of it. Why the fuck does it need to show me brittle lying on the floor, fallen over pillars or the structure of the walls? Why does it obscur entrances to rooms or bridges with this stuff so it looks like a wall if you do not pay attention? A good designer, be it architect or gamedesigner, knows that everything on a map should be there in order to contain information the reader needs to know. Not ness, not more. In a game as fastpaced as POE this minimap is one of the most outrageous and shameful derriation from that rule.
T. Reich
Arcane
The mini-map is utter shit. Even the devs admit that. It's just not as high on their to-do list, which is pretty huge already.
Perkel
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2014
- Messages
- 15,875
Huge news:
3.0 or should we say ACT5 officially confirmed Xbone version of game which will be exactly the same as PC version - different control setup and people on consoles will be put in their own network so console and PC people will be separate:
Trailer, there isn't much new stuff in it aside from some in game cinematics and SNOW titleset. So ACT5 will probably have something to do with snow and as rumors go we will probably visit Oriath.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1821330/page/2
3.0 or should we say ACT5 officially confirmed Xbone version of game which will be exactly the same as PC version - different control setup and people on consoles will be put in their own network so console and PC people will be separate:
Trailer, there isn't much new stuff in it aside from some in game cinematics and SNOW titleset. So ACT5 will probably have something to do with snow and as rumors go we will probably visit Oriath.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1821330/page/2
Zdzisiu
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2009
- Messages
- 3,499
No idea if decline or incline. On the one hand, going console with their control scheme forces some streamlining, but they will be on their own separate realm so it will probably not pollute the PC realm. On the other hand, how much development time and effort will go to X-box instead of PC? But then again, maybe X-Box Dorito dudes will spend an obscene amount of kwan bucks on shiny armour mtx so GGG will be able to afford better tech for PC version.
All in all, it is a pretty big news that GGG kept secret very well.
And a snow tileset is always nice, anything but jungle.
GrainWetski
Arcane
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2012
- Messages
- 5,103
Only decline can come out of this. It's either very successful and they start focusing on that shit version meaning the dumbing down they'll have to do for it to be playable infests the PC version or it fails and they wasted a bunch of time and money.
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