Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Numenera: Monte Cook's new 'Space Fantasy' rpg.

Discussion in 'The Gazebo' started by Mother Russia, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. Luckmanngender: ⚧ Arcane

    Luckmann
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Parrots:
    1,004
    Location:
    Scandinavia
    Click here and disable ads!
    I guess that if I end up running Gods of the Fall instead (and I'm heavily leaning towards that at the moment) the issue of Cyphers (or whatever it's called there, I actually have no clue) become more of a matter of spooky-wooky magic, rather than a matter of the inverse polarity fields in these hyper-aglets interacting on a nanoscale level with this hydrophobic thermobaric grenade. For reasons I cannot entirely explain, I'm actually a lot more OK with "A wizard did it" and opposing metaphysical forces than I am with rationalizing technobabble.
     
    • retadred retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  2. The Game Analistsgender: ⚧ Arcane

    The Game Analists
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Parrots:
    2,138
    In GOTF, cyphers are little pieces of what used to be heaven before it exploded.
     
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    ^ Top  
  3. Luckmanngender: ⚧ Arcane

    Luckmann
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Parrots:
    1,004
    Location:
    Scandinavia
    Alright, so, there's one thing I'm not getting. The Cypher System(s) don't have set skills. That's all well and good. But all the Character Sheets all look like something akin to this: https://i.imgur.com/WjVqLmr.png (this one is specifically from Gods of the Fall).

    But at the same time, skills aren't necessarily defined as "Intellect", "Might" or "Speed", and if you have two skills that apply to a given situation (such as "Pleasant social interactions" and "Persuasion"), you count as Specialized instead of just Trained, and so forth. And depending on the skill and somewhat depending on this, it might sometimes be Intellect or it might sometimes be Speed, and so on.

    So wouldn't a single list of general "Skills" be more appropriate? Or have I misunderstood something? Looking at the sheet, it just makes me feel like I've missed something and I have no idea where to place some "Skills".
     
    • retadred retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  4. Prime Juntagender: ⚧ Arcane

    Prime Junta
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Parrots:
    4,405
    The skill system in Cypher sucks balls. Really. It's terrible. And it's trivialised by Effort and Assets anyway; past tier 1 your skills won't matter because the players will just be using whoever has points left in the Pool in question.

    In my campaign, I houseruled it into something slightly more manageable: first, I made it so that "Trained" is always in what's called in the rulebook a "broad skill" -- something like Social Interaction for example. And "Specialised" is always in a "narrow skill" that's a subset of the "broad skill." And finally, I doubled the bonuses you get from it, so it wouldn't be completely overshadowed by Effort (and Assets).

    I did not prepare lists of skills beforehand; the players had fun inventing the stuff they wanted to be good at and it worked out fine.

    Then I had to adjust difficulties up by a level or so to make up for the extra level they got "for free" when creating characters.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. Luckmanngender: ⚧ Arcane

    Luckmann
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Parrots:
    1,004
    Location:
    Scandinavia
    Well I'm going to be running Gods of the Fall, anyway, and the players get Divine Shifts, which are practically identical to the Optional Rule regarding Superheroes, Power Shifts, in the Cypher Core Rulebook. What it does is lower the difficulty of tasks relating to a given thing, before you even apply Skills, Assets, or Efforts - and the players get 3 Divine Shifts starting on Tier 2, already, so there's no way all of this is going to overshadow their skills anyway. Someone at Tier 2 that's Trained in Smashing and and Trained in strength-related tasks (and thus essentially Specialized on in Smashing), with 3 Divine Shifts in Strength and with two Assets (from wherever), putting in two degrees of EFfort, would conceivably lower the difficulty of breaking down a wall by 3 (Shifts) + 2 (Skills) + 2 (Assets) + 2 (Effort) = 9.

    Yeah, El-Nachos, Nascent God of Strength, Patron Saint of Luchadors, would conceivably treat a Difficulty 9 Task, categorized as "Immortal" and "A task worthy of legends that lasts a lifetime" as a "Routine" Difficulty 0 task, at Tier 2. Even if we ignore the two assets (because I honestly have no fucking clue what would be a viable Asset at that point, I'm not going to allow a fucking Crowbar to contribute) that's still Difficulty 7, which is Formidable, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

    "Broad Skills" only really seem to come from Descriptors and Foci, though, but the fact that shit can't stack properly is annyoing. After all, what's the point of getting Persuade, Intimidate and/or Deceive from multiple sources? For example, the "Speaks with a Silver Tongue" Focus gives you the broad skill of being "trained in all social interactions, including persuasion, deception, and intimidation" at Tier 1, and then makes you specialized at Tier 6. In the event that someone has the Descriptor of Manipulative (which is honestly a pronounced possibility if someone takes Speaks with a Silver Tongue as their focus), they're already trained in Intimidation, Persuasion and Deception, making them Specialized at Tier 1. So what do they get when they get to Tier 6 and get their capstone special ability? Pretty much jack shit, that's what. Even without that specific Descriptor, you'd basically have to hold off Specializing in the thing that defines your character, as to not "waste" your 6th Tier.

    Now, this is easily avoidable in the system, just make a new ability for the character's Tier 6 and call on Rule 0, but in terms of an "as is" ruleset, it's absolute shit that that would even be necessary.

    I'm thinking about simply putting the Skill Bonus Cap at 3 instead of 2, but keep the maximum ranks (so you can only have 2 points in a skill, or 2 points in a broad skill) to alleviate this somewhat; at least then you'll be unlikely to cap out on character creation, at least, and it's quite uncommon that someone gets two broad skills (unless you specifically allow it, in which case the GM is to blame anyway). Or, maybe better, allow 1 "overflow" Skill Bonus to count as an Asset, meaning that if you're Specialized in a broad skill and trained in a skill, both of which contribute to a test, you'd be considered as having 2 Skill and 1 Asset (of which you can still only have 2).
     
    • retadred retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. Prime Juntagender: ⚧ Arcane

    Prime Junta
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Parrots:
    4,405
    Sounds workable. Either way if you want character building to mean anything, you will need to do something about it.
     
    ^ Top  
  7. udmgender: ⚧ Prophet Patron

    udm
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Parrots:
    1,018
    Monte Cook is back with another Numanuma KS.

     
    • hopw roewur ne hopw roewur ne x 1
    • decline decline x 1
    • Rage Rage x 1
    • Shit Shit x 1
    ^ Top  
  8. Prime Juntagender: ⚧ Arcane

    Prime Junta
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Parrots:
    4,405
    Surprised it's going so well, after he pissed off the shitlords with inclusiveness, then the SJWs with cultural appropriation. Who's left?
     
    • it is a mystery it is a mystery x 1
    ^ Top  
  9. Make America Great Again Darth Roxorgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis, Hater of Eternity

    Darth Roxor
    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Parrots:
    1,866,843
    Location:
    Djibouti
    Jesus Christ on a pogo stick.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  10. The Game Analistsgender: ⚧ Arcane

    The Game Analists
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Parrots:
    2,138
    its almost like the gender war vultures are a small but vocal group of retards
     
    ^ Top  
  11. MRYgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

    MRY
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Parrots:
    3,010
    Location:
    California
    I backed the first Numenera -- in fact I think it might've been the reason I set up a Kickstarter account in the first place. As I shifted Primordia royalties into paying FG, I stopped tithing to Kickstarter projects, so I haven't backed anything in a few years, so I never checked out the current one. I can say with respect to the first that it's a project you can get really excited about if you never play P&P because at a conceptual level it sounds like a good game for someone who can't be bothered to normally play P&P (not a pure narrative game, but with simple enough rules that you could pick it up and go). The overall pitch was great, name-checking Dying Earth stuff and presenting some interesting gameplay mechanics.

    I have no idea how it actually plays, but maybe all the backers are like me, fantasists who never actually engage with the product? It seems improbable, but in this crazy world, anything is possible.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    ^ Top  
  12. udmgender: ⚧ Prophet Patron

    udm
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Parrots:
    1,018
    I think so too. It may be the "Oooh look shinies!" effect as well. Give the man credit, they do produce nice looking physical products.
     
    ^ Top  
  13. Major_Blackhartgender: ⚧ Codexia Lord Sodom Patron

    Major_Blackhart
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Parrots:
    14,862
    Location:
    Jersey for now
    The end product I thought was an interesting look at things, nice looking, etc. But rules wise, goddamn.
    I thought the rules from Black Crusade were better by far.

    Edit: Also the world was very interesting that he built.
     
    ^ Top  
  14. Prime Juntagender: ⚧ Arcane

    Prime Junta
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Parrots:
    4,405
    It’s a world with no history, no politics, no cultures, no economy. Just a giant bag of random shiny. If that’s interesting then dumping your entire fridge into a pot and stirring is great cooking.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  15. Major_Blackhartgender: ⚧ Codexia Lord Sodom Patron

    Major_Blackhart
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Parrots:
    14,862
    Location:
    Jersey for now
    Good point. Mostly from a Sci-fi perspective really I guess is how I meant it, that and it's kind of a blank slate so as a GM you can build it just about anyway you want to with the kingdoms, etc.

    Edit: I do agree that a lot needed fleshing out, but overall it was interesting and I think the art definitely helped to convey things.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
    ^ Top  
  16. udmgender: ⚧ Prophet Patron

    udm
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Parrots:
    1,018
    I prefer Futurama's version of a billion years into the future.
     
    ^ Top  
  17. Prime Juntagender: ⚧ Arcane

    Prime Junta
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Parrots:
    4,405
    The art was good, for the most part.

    I just don't see the point of a non-setting setting like that. If I want to bulid something "the way I want to," I'll make up my own world. If I use somebody else's setting, I use it precisely because it gives me all that stuff already thought out.
     
    ^ Top  
  18. The Game Analistsgender: ⚧ Arcane

    The Game Analists
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Parrots:
    2,138
    I actually liked the undersea book quite a bit. Mostly the underwater leveler from Fern Gully that just drove around on the surface of the ocean destroying anything it rolled over. I liked that little tribes were living on it and the like. Most of the Into the Deep book was good shit - very very flavorful, very very interesting.

    It's just that it really only slightly improves one tiny piece of the overall boring package.

    Also the octopus shit is overhyped and the least interesting part of the book
     
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above buttons helps us pay the hosting bills, thanks!)