Newfag's wishes

[Aenra]

The thought has been there ever since i saw the Glen Cook quote in your website. Before you took it off that is.. (/decline)
What's changed is that i've now played AoD, a lot. So it's become more than just a passing thought, in the sense that i consider you actually capable of this and as such? Well, the mind wonders ^^
Scrap the scifi/ship RPG, or shelve it. Really

After the intermediate combat project, assuming you've raised some capital worthy of the definition?
Do a proper Glen Cook-esque full blown RPG.

Figure out your magical/high fantasy Vietnam, pit us in it. No heroes, no resolution, no moral imperatives. Blood, mud and a bunch of anti-heroes going at it because what else is there:

- Tactics/management (ie RTS elements, where you send your "One-eye", what for. Who's to accompany him for support/meat shielding. Does he have scouts with him? How about Croaker support?)
- Story not as rails/primary goal/proggression, but as means of unlocking/approaching scenarios differently through the C&C (your "captain" accepts or denies clauses within the contract, suggests or listens to 'x' and 'y' an opinion thereby unlocking different approaches, etc.)
- Low/relative morality factor, switch sides, betray
- Grim, foresty/jungle-like setting, where you visually stand out from everything and everyone else
- Hostile natives (easy to enter battles you won't win, traverse the jungle avoiding them, etc.)
- With the tone and style of writing AoD has?



(you don't have to flame, pretend it's crimbo come early and i just made my wish, ok?)

 

[Vault Dweller]

It sounds interesting and promising. but we've done too much work on the colony ship game to turn back or shelve it.

 

[a Goat]

My newfag wish is that everybody should die now but nobody listens.

 

[Cazzeris]

I think that for a indie studio like IT, it'd be better to focus on their own ideas rather than listening to what some folks on RPG Codex want. Games like the Generation Ship RPG or even AoD probably wouldn't turn out as interesting if Vince and co didn't come up with the ideas themselves, because it's easier to work with passion in a project whose very conception has sprouted in your mind than if you simply devote 11 years into an idea someone else considered interesting before you.

That said, I'd like to see an ambitious combat game based in AoD's systems and setting. The one that is planned for 2016 sounds too small-scale to take advantage of all the available potential. An unforgiving party-based dungeon crawler with complex grid-based combat following AoD's basics could be amazing in my opinion. Heck, even the prison-mine complex where your party has to make it to the top sounds extremely fitting for the area design. There are some crazy features that I'd love so see in such a project, but are probably too time-consuming to implement in 8-10 months and would simply be more adequate for a more ambitious and open-ended game:

Spoiler

• Stealth should definitely come into gameplay this time (it's a prison where your party has ended up, after all). I'm not asking for infiltration elements a la UnderRail (or Invisible Inc which features them as the core gameplay) since they would be time-consuming to implement and the game will be focused on combat anyway. What I mean is giving stealthy characters a chance to remain unseen out of the CYOA-mode in order to perform a backstab, steal certain items from enemies (berserk potions, nets, small daggers, neurostimulants and whatnot), hide items in opponents' inventories (placing a small bomb or pouring some poison into a healing ointment sound like great fun to me) and even activate a remote environmental element to release some rocks over the enemies' heads. If the enemies could do these tricks as well, it would be heaven.
  
  
• Crafting could be used to let the player create basic, makeshift weapons and armor at the start of the game. Sure, a shovel or a pickaxe can be pretty dangerous, but it'd be nice to not waste the potential creativity that can sprout from a prisoner's mind (intelligent crafters could make nasty stuff from super-basic materials).
  
  
• Traps could get some love as well. They could be naturally blended into the crafting system and would be a nice option for stealthy combatants. UnderRail would be a decent example of how to design them properly.
  
  
• Light could play an important role this time. "Liquid fire" and fire arrows could be added as useful tools to set enemies on fire or just light up some dark tunnel.
  
  
• Alchemy could be used to create gas bombs or gas arrows, though I'm not sure how the required reagents could end up in a prison. Then again, I can't think of a way to implement any kind of alchemical reagent inside a prison-mine besides smuggling, so that'd eliminate the need of having chemical stuff growing there.
  
  
• Now that excavating is probably going to be a strong theme in the game, it'd be nice if it was added as a gameplay mechanic somehow. Perhaps in some combat encounters that let the player plan a strategy, setting barricades, dig up a couple of holes and putting the usual traps would be great.
  
  
• If it was the case that traps were getting seriously implemented in the gameplay, then scouting would be obviously equally important. That way, it'd be nice if Perception was properly blended in the gameplay for the occasion. Discovering traps, secret passages, hidden stuff, hidden enemies and finding out details about the enemy's next move are just some of the possibilities.
  
  
• What about implementing unarmed combat? Getting a strong character punching and kicking other people or ramping up the Dexterity and practising some complicated maneuvers to choke the enemy or break certain joints between bones for deadly results sound good for a game set in a prison.
  
  
• Some basic maneuvers that took advantage from the party-based nature of the combat should be added, like flanking.
  
  
• Healing in the base game is quite boring and too conventional for a combat-focused game. Adding complexity and verosimilitude to this gameplay aspect could add a strategic layer to the flow of encounters and also make the systems feel a bit deeper. Here I have some interesting suggestions:
  

1. Implement healing directly into the character system in a more detailed way. Perhaps a "Medic" skill that governed healing efectiveness would help to make a party feel more varied. It could even be used to identify and create healing stuff, though that may clash with the alchemy skill. Perhaps a quest where an injured character must be healed with a unique item could be bypassed with a competent medic and some basic healing items as a nod to the original game's multiple quest solutions. Gaining reputation as a good doctor in the mine could open interesting options too, but that'd probably be better suited for another kind of game.
   
   
2. Design a wound table that showed the places where your character has been damaged and the kind of injury he's suffering (broken bone, minor/major cut, mutilation, infection, gangrene...). Having different healing methods to treat each wound type, making some injuries worsen as time passes (specially during combat) and designing these wounds as a debilitating element that can gradually turn a character into a skill-less dead weight would be nice. Honestly, I'm tired of RPGs where health just means a number, and if your next game is going to focus on combat, this can be a perfect time to shine in this regard.
   
   
3. Since the game takes place in a prison-mine, having diseases would improve the setting's verosimilitude. Perhaps they could be more present in certain parts of the prison, waiting for your characters to weaken during combat encounters to make a deadly appearance.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The dungeon crawler will be a pure combat game. If we go for depth, it will be a 2-3 year long project. The main new feature will be the party-based system. We'd like to add a different armor system (multiple pieces), but that's as far as we can go in 8-10 months.

Basically, the game is for people who liked our combat system and want to see more of it but in a party-based setup. We had some ideas thrown around but everything takes time and usually a lot more than you expect. So we'll go with what we already have and try to make the game worth the asking price.

 

[Cazzeris]

I know, but a man can dream. Besides, one thing is a linear succession of 40 hand-crafted combat encounters and another thing is a Jagged Alliance 2-esque game that ends up being a classic because it takes advantage of its many ideas and adds a lot of creative strategic layers related to its setting.

I'm aware that the game will be small-scale for a huge number of reasons, but this thread was created for the newfags' wishes, so talking about how a combat-focused AoD could aim to be seems adequate.

 

[Lurker King]

I think that for a indie studio like IT, it'd be better to focus on their own ideas rather than listening to what some folks on RPG Codex want.

Yes and no. Yes, if we are talking about their own ideas that rub players the wrong way, such as the tough love design and the elimination of filler content. Some stuff in the later areas didn’t work as they should because of this. For instance, the quests involving lord Darganus are confused because you are not teleporting to the designed places, as you should. Instead, you have to “explore” the city, because some players want more exploration. The time wasted on implementing the "harvesting of ingredients" feature is another similar mistake. You will "explore" the game world to harvest ingredients, even if that is not AoD's vocation. But the answer is no if you consider that intelligent developers will really want to implement players’ ideas that are not agaisnt their vision. Many interesting ideas, from quests to different ways to initiate an attack, were the result of collecting feedback here and on the ITS forums. Part of the deep sophistication is the result of collective effort. Of course, in the end, that is the developers' merit, not ours.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I know, but a man can dream. Besides, one thing is a linear succession of 40 hand-crafted combat encounters and another thing is a Jagged Alliance 2-esque game that ends up being a classic because it takes advantage of its many ideas and adds a lot of creative strategic layers related to its setting.

I'm aware that the game will be small-scale for a huge number of reasons, but this thread was created for the newfags' wishes, so talking about how a combat-focused AoD could aim to be seems adequate.

Sure, but we don't want people making assumptions that would turn into firmly held beliefs later. Expect nothing but a simple party-based combat game. Yes, one can do a lot with the concept, but my priority and focus are the colony ship RPG. That's the game I'm truly excited about it.

 

[valcik]

I'd like draw your attention to old novel Non-stop, written by B. Aldiss as his debut. Just in case you haven't read it yet, it's very interesting concept of generation colony ship, can't wait to see this setting in game.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I've read it. It's a pretty cool and fairly distinctive setup but we aren't going that far with regression.

 

[Cazzeris]

Yes and no. Yes, if we are talking about their own ideas that rub players the wrong way, such as the tough love design and the elimination of filler content. Some stuff in the later areas didn’t work as they should because of this. For instance, the quests involving lord Darganus are confused because you are not teleporting to the designed places, as you should. Instead, you have to “explore” the city, because some players want more exploration. The time wasted on implementing the "harvesting of ingredients" feature is another similar mistake. You will "explore" the game world to harvest ingredients, even if that is not AoD's vocation. But the answer is no if you consider that intelligent developers will really want to implement players’ ideas that are not agaisnt their vision. Many interesting ideas, from quests to different ways to initiate an attack, were the result of collecting feedback here and on the ITS forums. Part of the deep sophistication is the result of collective effort. Of course, in the end, that is the developers' merit, not ours.

Well, it's obvious that feedback is always helpful, but remotely expecting developers to work on something from scratch? Something that isn't their own idea? Can't see how that would end well. Just look at the Kickstarters based on games that were chosen because there are people who liked those games in the first place, not because the developers behind the campaign were really passionate about what made those games great and knew how to push the original concept further.

Sure, but we don't want people making assumptions that would turn into firmly held beliefs later. Expect nothing but a simple party-based combat game. Yes, one can do a lot with the concept, but my priority and focus are the colony ship RPG. That's the game I'm truly excited about it.

I'm perfectly aware of the small-scale nature of your next project and will buy it with everything that means in mind. As I've said, if the game ITS really wants to make is the Generation Ship RPG, then you're more likely to develop a better game based on that idea, since it's the project you think will be better, more interesting and more fun to work in.

 

[ColCol]

I honesty would like to see AOD's combat engine used in a turn based strategy game (think final fantasy tactics).

 

[Lurker King]

Well, it's obvious that feedback is always helpful, but remotely expecting developers to work on something from scratch? Something that isn't their own idea? Can't see how that would end well. Just look at the Kickstarters based on games that were chosen because there are people who liked those games in the first place, not because the developers behind the campaign were really passionate about what made those games great and knew how to push the original concept further.

And that is the "yes" part. Yes, they should follow their vision.