Moraff's Dungeons of the Unforgiven

[Dakka]

Spoiler

I played a shareware version of Moraff's Dungeons of the Unforgiven a hell of a lot as a kid. I loved the variety of race/class combinations you could pick, and a lot of them were downright silly. The whole game was, really. You then ventured down into the dungeons alone, killed some walking garbage cans and rogue lesbian warriors or whatever, and went back to town to buy new stuff and rest up.

Does anyone remember this game? Does anyone know any other good games similar to it?

 

[newtmonkey]

LOL I remember this one. Especially the garbage cans and the enemies I too misread as "lesbian warriors"
The joys of randomly downloading RPGs from BBS

 

[Fowyr]

Isn't it entire series?

 

[Marquis de Lirium]

The CRPG Addict has reviewed two of the "Moraff" Games:

Moraff's Revenge (1988)
Moraff's World (1991)

They look deliciously silly. (Race: Hobo )

 

[Dakka]

LOL I remember this one. Especially the garbage cans and the enemies I too misread as "lesbian warriors"
The joys of randomly downloading RPGs from BBS

They look deliciously silly. (Race: Hobo )

Haha yeah. Good times. I actually first got the game from a CD that had a bunch of shareware games loaded onto it, since I was little and wasn't allowed to use the internet. I think that particular CD was called Child's Play, but I'm not sure.

Isn't it entire series?

The CRPG Addict has reviewed two of the "Moraff" Games:

Moraff's Revenge (1988)
Moraff's World (1991)

Thanks, guys! It's interesting to see the progression in tech those games had, even if Moraff's World was kind of hard to look at. Dungeons of the Unforgiven still looks good in my opinion. I bet the art style helps. The main problem though is getting it to run on modern systems. I don't think I've ever managed to get Unforgiven working properly on this computer, and I can't imagine the others would be any easier. I think I just barely got it to run using an emulated Windows XP system on VirtualBox, but it ran horribly and didn't display properly.

I was hoping there was a more recent game like it, or now that I think about it, some solution for getting this one to work that I overlooked. I've played other Roguelikes, but to be honest nothing has so far come close to my enjoyment of Unforgiven.

 

[Marquis de Lirium]

Try DOSBox. Virtualizing Windows XP isn't really useful when you're trying to run a DOS program, but with DOSBox most of the classic games work.

 

[Dakka]

Try DOSBox. Virtualizing Windows XP isn't really useful when you're trying to run a DOS program, but with DOSBox most of the classic games work.

At first, I got an error. Something like "DOSBox DOS Emulator has stopped working." Just when I was about to give up, I managed to get Unforgiven running with the D-Fend frontend after messing around with the settings a bit. I have no idea what I did wrong before or how I solved that issue, but I'm glad it works. What a blast from the past! I'll want to fiddle with the settings a bit more to speed up the rendering of the game and eliminate some minor graphical weirdness, but everything appears to be working.

Spoiler

There are some bizarre details about this game that I never fully appreciated as a kid. For instance, the game's stores all use Rubles, and the monsters carry "Greater-American Dollars", which are stated to be worth 100 times less than the Rubles. Also, why does this snake have tits?

 

[Fowyr]

I'll want to fiddle with the settings a bit more to speed up the rendering of the game and eliminate some minor graphical weirdness, but everything appears to be working.

Press Ctrl-F12 to speed up the game, press Ctrl-F11 to slow it down.

 

[Grauken]

Also, why does this snake have tits?

Everything is better with tits, especially snakes

Also, if you like going down a dungeon, collect stuff, kill monsters and go up again, try out Mordor - The Depths of Dejenol

I assume you already know about Wizardry

 

[Marquis de Lirium]

Jesus Christ. I'm really not a graphics whore, but this game is the very definition of ugliness.

 

[Dakka]

I'll want to fiddle with the settings a bit more to speed up the rendering of the game and eliminate some minor graphical weirdness, but everything appears to be working.

Press Ctrl-F12 to speed up the game, press Ctrl-F11 to slow it down.

Thanks. That may come in handy if I ever need to adjust it on the fly, but I already cranked my emulation speed up to 100% in the game's profile and switched the emulation core to dynamic and now it's blazing fast. I also bumped the game's memory setting up to 63 MB, but I don't know if that made any difference or not.

Also, why does this snake have tits?

Everything is better with tits, especially snakesy

Good point. :D

Also, if you like going down a dungeon, collect stuff, kill monsters and go up again, try out Mordor - The Depths of Dejenol

I assume you already know about Wizardry

I do know about Mordor. I own the game legit, actually. Only problem is installing it. I'm thinking I might be able to get it running with DOSBox since it appears to have a Windows option. First I'd have to unpack the files though, and the installer I downloaded from Decklin's Domain is telling me I can't do it because I'm running Windows 10 x64.

I don't know about Wizardry, although I've heard it's good. Which game would you recommend I start with?

Jesus Christ. I'm really not a graphics whore, but this game is the very definition of ugliness.

Fair enough. I guess it could just be nostalgia on my part, but I think it's quite charming.

Spoiler

Who else but Moraff would give you a "rob the bank" button only to have it do this?

 

[Fowyr]

I do know about Mordor. I own the game legit, actually. Only problem is installing it. I'm thinking I might be able to get it running with DOSBox since it appears to have a Windows option. First I'd have to unpack the files though, and the installer I downloaded from Decklin's Domain is telling me I can't do it because I'm running Windows 10 x64.

Usually you need to install WIn 3.11 under DosBox. Its distributive is widely available.

I don't know about Wizardry, although I've heard it's good. Which game would you recommend I start with?

Wizardry 1, Wizardry 6, Wizardry 7. Pick your poison.

 

[Grauken]

I have Mordor running under Dosbox with Win 3.1, runs flawlessly

 

[Marquis de Lirium]

Jesus Christ. I'm really not a graphics whore, but this game is the very definition of ugliness.

Fair enough. I guess it could just be nostalgia on my part, but I think it's quite charming.

Spoiler

Who else but Moraff would give you a "rob the bank" button only to have it do this?

You're right, of course. Graphics aside, many shareware games in the 90's had this playful touch and a certain amateur charm, both of which are sadly missing in most of today's "indie" games.

 

[Dakka]

Wizardry 1, Wizardry 6, Wizardry 7. Pick your poison.

I notice you'd left out Wizardry 8. Was that one not as good?

You're right, of course. Graphics aside, many shareware games in the 90's had this playful touch and a certain amateur charm, both of which are sadly missing in most of today's "indie" games.

Yeah... Good indie games are still made today, but the rare gem is difficult to find buried beneath all the shit. Everything is just so serious and professional now though. That's not terrible, but I think I would enjoy a sillier game from time to time.

Spoiler

This game is such a bully.

 

[Fowyr]

I notice you'd left out Wizardry 8. Was that one not as good?

Nah, it's a pretty OK game, but Wiz7 was better. Frankly, I consider Grimoire better than Wiz8.

EDIT: I installed Win311 under DosBox, ran mouse driver ctmouse to make mouse work and can play Mordor. I need to properly setup video card driver (it thinks that it's EGA) and sound card.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I remember this ridiculous trash game. Got it on a shareware disc or something.

 

[Dakka]

I notice you'd left out Wizardry 8. Was that one not as good?

Nah, it's a pretty OK game, but Wiz7 was better. Frankly, I consider Grimoire better than Wiz8.

I see. I'm guessing Wizardry 8 didn't handle the move to 3D very well. How does Grimoire compare? All I know is that it is supposed to be similar to Wizardry and that its creator and fanbase are insufferable.

EDIT: I installed Win311 under DosBox, ran mouse driver ctmouse to make mouse work and can play Mordor. I need to properly setup video card driver (it thinks that it's EGA) and sound card.

I finally managed to get it to work thanks to Grauken's help and despite some more strange issues. I forgot how catchy that game's music was, holy shit.

 

[Fowyr]

I see. I'm guessing Wizardry 8 didn't handle the move to 3D very well. How does Grimoire compare? All I know is that it is supposed to be similar to Wizardry and that its creator and fanbase are insufferable.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...e-winged-exemplar.117874/page-10#post-5266078
It's true sequel to Wiz7. Pretty rough, but big, brilliant and fun.

EDIT: I finally remembered how to install SVGA driver in Win3.11.
Wheee!!!
Mordor is now playable.

 

[Iznaliu]

I'm guessing Wizardry 8 didn't handle the move to 3D very well

It handled it very well indeed.

 

[Dakka]

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...e-winged-exemplar.117874/page-10#post-5266078
It's true sequel to Wiz7. Pretty rough, but big, brilliant and fun.

I can't afford it right now, but I will keep that in mind. If it's as good as so many here claim, then perhaps I shouldn't be so quick to judge. That thread OP had the most praise I've ever seen in a negative review for a game, and all of the balance issues he mentioned sounded easily fixable through patches or mods or whatever.

I'm guessing Wizardry 8 didn't handle the move to 3D very well

It handled it very well indeed.

Judging by screenshots, the graphics do look very good for an early 3D game.

Could you tell me more of your thoughts on Wizardry 8? I'm thinking about getting into the series now, and I feel another Codexian perspective would be good. You know how Steam reviews are.

 

[Fowyr]

Could you tell me more of your thoughts on Wizardry 8? I'm thinking about getting into the series now, and I feel another Codexian perspective would be good. You know how Steam reviews are.

I guess I can elaborate too. Wiz8 is fun game, but not a good starting point in the series. Its dungeons are terrible (the only "true" three short dungeons are really gimmicks that tried to capture early Wiz feel) It was worse than Wiz7 in many aspects, from world size to trap disarming, from class change (call it cheesy, but unlimited Wiz7's class change was a lot of fun) to maps.

all of the balance issues he mentioned sounded easily fixable through patches or mods or whatever.

They are not even real problem per se. Exploitable combat tricks were staple of Wizardry.

 

[Dakka]

I guess I can elaborate too.

Of course. It is appreciated.

Wiz8 is fun game, but not a good starting point in the series. Its dungeons are terrible (the only "true" three short dungeons are really gimmicks that tried to capture early Wiz feel) It was worse than Wiz7 in many aspects, from world size to trap disarming, from class change (call it cheesy, but unlimited Wiz7's class change was a lot of fun) to maps.

Okay, I can get Wizardry 6, 7, and 8 together for $15 on Steam, so I guess I can just see for myself which one I prefer if I go for that. How are the character creation and customization? What advantages does Wizardry have over other classic RPG series? I hear Might and Magic is pretty good too. I just found a pack of M&M 1-6 on Good old Games for just $10.

Sorry, I am pretty clueless about this stuff. That's part of why I signed up here to begin with; I intend to refine my tastes. The other reason is to keep up with new Bannerlord info.

all of the balance issues he mentioned sounded easily fixable through patches or mods or whatever.

They are not even real problem per se. Exploitable combat tricks were staple of Wizardry.

I'm not sure I follow. I always assumed game balance was meant to give you more valid choices than just a few that worked.

 

[imweasel]

Some Moraff's World avatars would really spice this place up.

 

[Fowyr]

Okay, I can get Wizardry 6, 7, and 8 together for $15 on Steam, so I guess I can just see for myself which one I prefer if I go for that. How are the character creation and customization?

It was always top notch in Wiz6-8. Some spent hours to finally roll that elusive something-something-Lord. Wiz6 and Wiz7 have a free class change (when stats are right) on the top of that, so you can always try something new right in the game. Wiz1-3 and 5 had class changing as well, but it was less fun and useful.

What advantages does Wizardry have over other classic RPG series?

Wiz1-3 - Simple, but very charming dungeon romp that influenced a lot of CRPGs.
Wiz4 - good, fun and brilliant descent to the madness. I never considered it "most hardc0re game evar" or something, but it's definitely not for novices in genre.
Wiz5 - closer to Wiz1, but now have a more story, a lot of adventure type puzzles and NPCs.
Wiz6 - A lot of story, good dungeons, outdoor maps, great exploration, new magic and character system. Good combat. Purple prose and black humour.
Wiz7 - more of the same, only with now real overworld, awesome exploration, moving NPCs that kill each other and can find some quest items first.

I hear Might and Magic is pretty good too. I just found a pack of M&M 1-6 on Good old Games for just $10.

It's a great series. Biggest selling point for me was exploration and overall fun combat, though simplified in the M&M6-8
M&M1 - CGA, grid movement, invisible encounters, no automapping (rectified with third party programs) - Great game, but hard as nails until you get 5th level.

M&M2 - EGA, grid movement, invisible encounters, automapping - I always considered it best game in the series. Some good dungeons.

M&M3-5 - VGA, grid movement, monsters are visible, automapping - great games as well.

M&M6 - SVGA, free movement, real time combat (with half-assedly implemented turn-based option), first "3D" M&M game with added flying - great exploration, good dungeon or two, inane but fun combat. Cheesy tactics like run&gun and carpet bombing.
M&M7 added some C&C and branching plot to it.
M&M8 is a litle M&M7 copycat.

I'm not sure I follow. I always assumed game balance was meant to give you more valid choices than just a few that worked.

Nah, balancing should just fix too cheesy things - like non resistable free spell that can damage for 1500 HP and could be used every round.
Thread that I linked talks a lot about balancing.
For me, Grimoire's flaws were that some spells and items are not working and stacking is complete joke. Though, it's small complaint comparing to the awesomeness that is Grimwah.