[LP CYOA] 傳

[Esquilax]

I'm going to vote C>A1. We can't afford to let Xuxian's powers get wasted, and though I'd prefer to just book it out of here (relatively little risk to us, Xuxian's power is saved, he has no restriction on reteaching the stuff) that's obviously not going to win and A1 looks like the least stupid way out of this. The Abbot is strong enough to take the blows (remember how Xu Jing's claws intended to tear through tendons like tissue paper didn't even break through Guo Fu's skin, and that was when he wasn't using protective techniques?) while Jing's maimed or killed at least one person for most of the tag teams he's faced since the earliest days of his training, especially when he faces many at once.

Thanks for the old-school brofist, but to be fair, Guo Fu was using a protective technique. In fact, it's the same defensive technique that the Shaolin are famous for, the Jinzhongzhao.

Well, more to the point, our Wuying Leipo Kick usually proves to be a technique that works well against formations by catching them off-guard. We also have master-level unarmed skill which improves our ability to face a large formation like this. Xuxian might be able to beat the formation, but I have my doubts about him doing so without harming them.

As for a test of restraint, I don't think we can both hold back against the Abbot and subdue him. We're not that good. In the end, facing the abbot is bait for us to be drawn into a serious fight where we get sloppy about the "no harming others" rule. When it comes down to it, I think Xuxian benefits more from confronting a single resilient opponent than us.

With regards to Xuxian's personal journey, Xuxian injured the abbot when he escaped. He also needs to prove himself to the abbot. I think the fight with the abbot should be his.

When have we ever used the Wuying Leipo Kick to break formations, and when has it ever been described as a formation-breaking techniuque? I mean, I dunno, maybe it is, but this is just pure conjecture on your part. Likewise, you could use the master level Unarmed Skill argument to say that it improves our ability to fight the Abbot using lethal techniques without harming him, but it's really besides the point, because of course MOAR skill is better.

If I were arguing in favour of A2, and I am getting close to flopping, here is what I would say: unlike the Abbot, who is a huge mountain of swole with greater inner strength than us, we can probably replicate the 18-man formation that the monks use without having to resort to qi draining first thanks to Wuxiang Qiankun. Likewise, just because Xuxian fucked up and panicked earlier doesn't mean he'll do so again: his behaviour since then indicates that he's become far better at controlling his abilities, though of course this will be by far his biggest test so far. Another big hint is within an interpretation of the update, related to Shaolin Temple precedent and Xuxian's first fight with the Abbot:

“Trial by combat. First, face the Eighteen Bronze Arhat Formation, and then battle the current Abbot. Huichan was the first in temple history to convince an Abbot in such a trial.” Then he adds, with a wry smile, “After that, Fangzhang followed suit, and was the only one to ever actually defeat a presiding Abbot soundly.”
...
“Didn’t you beat the Abbot before? Just go even more lightly on him this time around,” you whisper.

“I am pretty sure he was holding back at the time,” mutters Xuxian nervously. “To take both him and the Eighteen Arhats on without injuring any of them… I don’t know if I can do that.”

The Shaolin value their principles and traditions above everything, so rather than amping up the intensity and potentially harming Xuxian, which would bring shame on Shaolin's teachings, the Abbot decided that it would be better to purposely lose and be harmed by Xuxian than it would be to inflict harm on Xuxian. This seems to suggest that if we attack the Abbot with too much aggression, he may simply let us harm him or put himself in a vulnerable position to test how merciful we truly are.

The update also seems to imply that succeeding in the trial and defeating the Abbot soundly are two different things, based on the different accounts of Huichan and the late Abbot Fangzhang. treave, what was the difference between their performance in the trials that they faced? As I understood it, while Huichan came out victorious, he had a significantly harder time of the trial, and perhaps the Abbot of his day allowed him a victory when he showed that he was sufficiently skilled and controlled. On the other hand, Fangzhang managed to outdo his predecessor by outclassing his Abbot completely without harming him at all. Am I getting it right? If that's the case, then it implies that succeeding in the trial and beating the challenges soundly are two very different things.

According to the update, the abbot and the eighteen bronze arhats are roughly equal in difficulty. Furthermore, Xu Jing has some difficulty controlling his strength. Therefore, Xu Jing should face the resilient abbot instead of the eighteen bronze arhats.

The problem is that this argument can be read both ways depending on which choice you're invested in.

 

[treave]

A1 - 9
A2 - 9
B - 10
C - 1 (with conditional flop to A1)

That's actually

A1 - 9
A2 - 8
B - 10
C - 1

at the moment, I think there are only 28 votes, no?

treave, what was the difference between their performance in the trials that they faced? As I understood it, while Huichan came out victorious, he had a significantly harder time of the trial, and perhaps the Abbot of his day allowed him a victory when he showed that he was sufficiently skilled and controlled. On the other hand, Fangzhang managed to outdo his predecessor by outclassing his Abbot completely without harming him at all. Am I getting it right?

Yup, you got it right. The same condition applies to you just as much it applies to Xuxian if you are to take the test, obviously. But nevertheless, the difficulty is almost equal, as the Abbot has said.

 

[Absinthe]

Treave, I recounted since there are only 28 votes as you say. I came up with:

A1 - 9
A2 - 9
B - 9
C - 1

EDIT: Just pointing out I'll be updating the tally above, so this tally is out of date.

The problem is that this argument can be read both ways depending on which choice you're invested in.

Nope. Jing has 8 unarmed skill and Xianglong 18 Palms, among other things (like 7-9 per and 8 int). Jing can actually control his strength, unless you insist on fighting with Shouwang Claws.

 

[m4davis]

B

 

[Random Word]

A2

 

[Kipeci]

Hey treave is this winnable by either A choice, or does one make it harder/leave things up to chance than the other? I don't want to get involved in writing up massive, repetitive walls of text for DISCUSS!!! without sufficiently severe motivation.

 

[treave]

One of the A choices fails the trial.

Not that it matters, surely you guys aren't so shameless as to ask for yet another rollback, right?

 

[Esquilax]

Not that it matters, surely you guys aren't so shameless as to ask for yet another rollback, right?

Do not underestimate the depths to which PoparollDex will sink, bro.

In any case, if we would still be continuing this LP, I heartily look forward to playing as a Yang Xue-trained Zhang Manxing, out to unleash his hatred on Bai Jiutian, the Eight Sects, and Xu Jing's harem. Xu Jing will lie crippled and helpless in a burned Shaolin Temple, surrounded by the lifeless bodies of the Abbot and the monks who tried in vain to stop Manxing from tearing the place asunder, and he will look upon as we rape his women and consign him to a slow, painful death. It will be glorious.

 

[Kipeci]

Oh, shit. I was hoping to sleep tonight... I'm not sure whether I should hold out for the A1 method or just decide to swallow my pride and more safely argue for B.

 

[Esquilax]

Oh, shit. I was hoping to sleep tonight... I'm not sure whether I should hold out for the A1 method or just decide to swallow my pride and more safely argue for B.

Sleep is for the weak... and possibly the productive. YOLOTIGER or NO TIGER AT ALL.

My last attempt at killing Xu Jing at the Fire Temple proved to be unsuccessful. I will not fail this time. Don't worry bros, the Zhang Manxing playthrough will be amazing.

 

[Kipeci]

Eh... then again, maybe not. Even if A2 wins there'll still be tremendous amounts of butthurt to gleefully feed off of, I'll just ignore that some of it's my own. It was a good run, Jing.

Edit: As one parting shot, Absinthe you do know that Jing has outright maimed or murdered at least one out of just about every big formation or group that he's run into since very early on in his training, right? Accidentally ripping off arms, kneeing people in the face only to find out that he's squished their brains, we just got off of causing very severe bodily harm to an old man in a one vs. two match and as we found when facing the orthodox pugilists in that Wuying Leipo Kick time that you were just showing off Jing was resorting to brutal techniques that could have caused them severe damage just to keep up his wild assault. I don't think that's improving around 18 strong warriors.

To me that's a more worrying pattern of a lack of self-restraint in battle than accidentally wounding one's master in a panic with only rudimentary practice in controlling his superpowers and without even maiming the guy.

 

[treave]

most formations are bad at handling attacks through the aerial field

That's a real stretch.

 

[Absinthe]

Eh, I'll just delete that post then.

At any rate, going off of the basic of "the two fights are equally dangerous, so let Xuxian have the fight that requires less control to manage safely." Esquilax, you do agree that it would be easier for Xuxian to face the abbot without harming him considering his partial control than to defeat all 18 without harming them, yes? You also agree that Jing, possessing master-level unarmed skill, is more capable of controlling his strength, yes?

Sleep is for the weak... and possibly the productive. YOLOTIGER or NO TIGER AT ALL.

My last attempt at killing Xu Jing at the Fire Temple proved to be unsuccessful. I will not fail this time. Don't worry bros, the Zhang Manxing playthrough will be amazing.

Yeah, I was strongly reminded of that all throughout this conversation where you were pushing A1 for all sorts of weak reasons (like "Shouwang claws is a great move to really use on the abbot - trust me!" after treave already confirmed our shouwang claws would be downgraded in these circumstances unless we resorted to killing intent). Stop trying to get Jing killed and kindly vote A2.

 

[Baltika9]

We might want to consider that using WQS against the Eighteen Asshats Formation will leak or knowledge of the skill to theworks at large. Something to consider in A2.

 

[Esquilax]

We might want to consider that using WQS against the Eighteen Asshats Formation will leak or knowledge of the skill to theworks at large. Something to consider in A2.

Not really, I think that's a weak argument. Think about what you need to do to succeed first, then worry about the rest of it. If we succeed in the trial, then we will have shown that we are true in Shaolin's teachings, so we'll be able to learn Xuxian's legendary technique, and he ours. Once you get to that level of power, there just aren't too many folks that can do much to stop you.

 

[Absinthe]

Edit: As one parting shot, Absinthe you do know that Jing has outright maimed or murdered at least one out of just about every big formation or group that he's run into since very early on in his training, right? Accidentally ripping off arms, kneeing people in the face only to find out that he's squished their brains, we just got off of causing very severe bodily harm to an old man in a one vs. two match and as we found when facing the orthodox pugilists in that Wuying Leipo Kick time that you were just showing off Jing was resorting to brutal techniques that could have caused them severe damage just to keep up his wild assault. I don't think that's improving around 18 strong warriors.

Jing has a much better (master-level) unarmed skill now, so he can control his strength better. Also, he wasn't particularly trying to hold back in those kinds of fights. Moreover, he now has less dangerous moves like the Xianglong 18 Palms (said to be the strongest palm technique in all the Eight Sects) that he can depend on.

We might want to consider that using WQS against the Eighteen Asshats Formation will leak or knowledge of the skill to theworks at large. Something to consider in A2.

We could always just use the skill to read the technique to dismantle it instead of copying it. That's a much more subtle use of Wuxiang Qiankun that will give us an advantage in the fight. Besides, if we win and get Xuxian's legendary technique, then the manual hunters will be after us anyway, so perhaps we can afford to just expose Wuxiang Qiankun.

 

[treave]

Dude, stop putting words in my mouth.

You can make your argument perfectly fine without reaching for everything in sight.

For that matter, when did I say the claws would be unreliable against the Abbot?

 

[Absinthe]

Alright, deleted that bit. And you didn't say they were unreliable against the abbot, but you mentioned:

You can hurt but not harm. Causing pain is okay, minor cuts and bruises are still alright, but anything more serious is out. At least, you cannot do anything with killing intent, which does downgrade your more powerful claw moves. At this level, the fighters will usually have the skill to recognize when it has become a fight they cannot win without resorting to lethal moves, and stand down accordingly.

We already agreed that killing intent is wrong, so I interpreted of my own accord that the downgraded claw moves would be unreliable, generally speaking.

I edited the post. Is this better?

 

[Esquilax]

Yeah, I was strongly reminded of that all throughout this conversation where you were pushing A1 for all sorts of weak reasons (like "Shouwang claws is a great move to use on the abbot - trust me!" after treave already confirmed our shouwang claws would be unreliable in these circumstances). Stop trying to get Jing killed and kindly vote A2.

The time of Xu Jing is over, it's Zhang Manxing's time to shine. Or failing that, Hobo Rider. Think of death as a fresh start, a new beginning where we can rape maidens to our heart's content and provide our kindly old Master with offerings of flesh in exchange for forbidden martial arts knowledge. It'll be fun!

Spoiler

 

[treave]

Your more powerful moves, the Bloody Diamond Horn and the Raging Lion Claws won't reach their full potential for damage or effectiveness, since more than any other move in the set they're designed to deal massive damage. That's all it means, really.

 

[Absinthe]

I know, but against the Jinzhongzhou it usually takes massive damage to go through.

 

[Baltika9]

treave, can we ask the Abbot if he knows and is related to our Master, THE LORD Zhang Jue? Preferably in those exact words.

 

[Esquilax]

treave, can we ask the Abbot if he knows and is related to our Master, THE LORD Zhang Jue? Preferably in those exact words.

Before Li Ming managed to capture and inflict a horrible fate on Yang Xue, he had managed to steal away his two twin newborn boys* and leave them at the steps of the Shaolin Temple, where they would be raised as orphans. The boys, both large and hardy as infants, became big, strong martial artists as men. However, while one became a highly respected monk of the Temple, the other rejected the teachings of the place and turned towards a dark path, devoting himself to violence as deeply as his brother did to pacifism.

But today, the brothers must reunite, and put their grudges aside to stop the Zhang Clan.

LEGEND II: Blood Brothers. Coming to a CYOA near you.

* Yes, they're twin, newborn boys despite the fact that Abbot Fangci is at least twenty years older than Master Zhang. Fuck it, let's just run with this. Yang Xue is the father of both the Shaolin Abbot and our own Master. It just works.

 

[Absinthe]

Fangshi, could you flop to A2?

Why I think B will fail:

“Didn’t you beat the Abbot before? Just go even more lightly on him this time around,” you whisper.

“I am pretty sure he was holding back at the time,” mutters Xuxian nervously. “To take both him and the Eighteen Arhats on without injuring any of them… I don’t know if I can do that.”

So here he explains he doubts he can handle all of them. Side-note: he has doubts about taking on the eighteen arhats without injuring any of them, so he doesn't trust his control against a whole formation. Good sign we should vote A2.

You look at the sweating Xuxian. “What do you want to do?”

“I… I’ll give my best and fight, but I cannot expect you to risk your own wugong to assist me, Young Master Xu. Just the help you rendered in providing this chance for a trial by combat is sufficient. Asking you for more help at this point would be improper,” he says.

And here he emphasizes how he cannot ask Jing for help twice over when we ask him what he wants to do. That means yes he does want help.

Since Xuxian wants us to help him, why not oblige him with A2 and let Xuxian face the abbot?

 

[Baltika9]

Not even a brofist for the idea?