[LP CYOA] 傳

[treave]

You will be getting the opportunity to improve your physical stats directly (besides luck), reflecting your growth as you age. Picking a different choice here will give you a different selection of ways to improve your stats - basically the stat growth won't be the same for each sect.

There will be two such chances given throughout the LP - the rest will have to be sought out or encountered.

To quote myself, this is what I said.

Consider this to be the last of the two given chances; we're getting a timeskip in the next update. You don't get that much skill points and stat increases in merely a month or two, after all. The remaining stat increases will depend on where you go and what you do in the future, and there may or may not be hints on where to find them; they'll be missable.

Yes, I realize that I'm offering a luck boost right now. That's... extremely rare, so let's leave it at that.

 

[Kipeci]

Ah, okay, I find myself corrected, then.

Well, this makes it more important than ever that we get our only strength boost provided as well as bumping up our endurance so that we can have half-decent neigong.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Bros,

What we need to consider now is our new biggest weakness: It's not our luck, it's our lack of meridians.

Yes, that's also our strength, as the update said, but keep in mind that at least one of our enemies use advanced qi-damaging pressure point techniques - the crazy bird with the killer palm technique from the beginning of the LP. Now that we have no meridians, those techniques will be VERY difficult to recover from (remember that healing normally, Jing was severely weakened by her attack up until being saved by Yao).

We need stat boosts that will help us either avoid this sort of damage (AGI + PER) or tank it (STR + END).

VOTAN BC

Gives the needed AGI + PER bonus I mentioned. Why AGI + Per instead of the END boost?

1. Tanking damage is still TAKING damage and now that Yao can't fix us that could land us in serious trouble after a few updates of fighting.
2. AGI + PER are exactly what is needed to counter qi damaging attacks, which seem to be fast and precise attacks, only avoidable if your are fast enough AND can see them coming.

2C is a tougher choice for me. I suppose I'm going with it because the other choices sound far more reckless, while this one sounds it could be a bit more strategic in its applications. Crippling an enemy instead of killing them, throwing someone to ruin their balance and then jabbing them, etc.

 

[Kipeci]

Bear in mind that treave said that that C skill is only really combat worthy with 4 in pressure points, which we don't have and probably lost the chance to gain for a while after leaving Yao.

 

[Grimgravy]

I thought he said pressure points (skill) would only be useful in combat at 4. The C technique should be useable regardless.

 

[Esquilax]

2C is a tougher choice for me. I suppose I'm going with it because the other choices sound far more reckless, while this one sounds it could be a bit more strategic in its applications. Crippling an enemy instead of killing them, throwing someone to ruin their balance and then jabbing them, etc.

BC has very good synergy with the AGI and PER boost:

Wuni Fist (五逆拳,Five Deadly Sins Fist). Developed by Zhang Jue as an answer to the famed Luohan Fist of Shaolin Temple. In response to the straightforward, direct attacks of the Arhat, the Deadly Sins movements focuses on attacking the weak points in such a straightforward technique by utilizing a variety of clutches, grabs and throws in addition to quick, jabbing strikes. It has never been tested against Shaolin in actual combat.

Okay, so in order to make this technique really effective, we need enough quickness to jab at the opponent, enough strength to grab+throw, and the perception to see their weak points. Plus, as Kipeci noted, we'd need a rank of 4 in Pressure Points to make the skill applicable in combat. It's not a bad choice, really, it isn't, but it's a long-term investment. That being said, I think it's a good one that will mesh well with the PER and AGI bonus.

However, I think that we ought to remember who else is going to be awaiting us on this island:

“If you do want the sword, the Abbess will know where to find me,” says Zhang cheerfully. “I have not changed my residence. I would suggest that you try again regularly as once we reach my island, I will not lift a finger to direct my apprentice. That would be your best chance.”

This is another of Zhang's insane tests to see if we are worthy. Having a technique that is not combat worthy while the nuns are around the corner is dangerous. But then again, we'd have some stealth skills and a familiarity with the jungle to hopefully get the drop on them. Or hey, we could vote D and use our charming CHA 8 animal-lover to thaw the nuns' hearts.

 

[Kipeci]

Also, a strength bonus will help to crush foes before they can attack us. Remember that higher level stat upgrades have a much greater effect than lower ones-- going from 8 STR to 9 is much more significant than 5 PER to 6.

 

[TOME]

I think it is extremely shortsighted to go for 1C. It gives a quick boost to our combat abilities but that's it. Int and per however will pay dividends along the way. We went for great combat stats in the beginning, now is time to make an investment for the future.

 

[TOME]

Ah, okay, so if we have a high skill at Sword or Unarmed we can start making shit up with our current level of INT.

Pretty much, yes. A prolonged and equal fight between two Great-level exponents usually ends up with one or both sides pulling a new technique out of their ass as they attempt to counter each other. In this case, they might not have raw intelligence, but their experience and technical expertise makes up for it. For a young fighter, he'd definitely need a good INT and PER to play the countering game. I'd probably consider INT 7 and PER 7 as entry-level for this sort of mental match in general, the minimum you need to be considered good at it. Of course, if you lack in perception you'll need to compensate for it in intelligence, and vice versa.

Consider this to be the last of the two given chances; we're getting a timeskip in the next update. You don't get that much skill points and stat increases in merely a month or two, after all. The remaining stat increases will depend on where you go and what you do in the future, and there may or may not be hints on where to find them; they'll be missable.

Bolded parts just scream INT and PER.

 

[Kipeci]

I don't think it's too short-sighted to gain a point in endurance when we're going through a training process so rigorous that only one former apprentice has survived three days over half a year into it.

Furthermore, I'm not sure how becoming strong in body is a poor investment for a specialist in martial arts in the Wuxia world. We've already taken significant gains in Intelligence and Charisma as side benefits for our character, but we must remember our roots in a firm physical foundation. It's certainly not as if we're drooling retards at 7 Int. We didn't choose a scholar or goat, after all.

 

[XenomorphII]

CA

 

[Baltika9]

Dunno, seems to me we're quite versatile already, any more and we'll be too spread out. I really want to capitalize on Jing's greatest weakness in fights, his endurance. 5 is average, so a moderately intelligent opponent can just opt to wait us out and strike when we're exhausted. All the strength ans speed is useless if we can't use them.

Second, I want a stat where we're really the best there is and that can only be STR right now. With our neiggong we'll be able to break the cap and become pretty much unstoppable with our already high intelligence and boosted agility stat.

Then there's the technique: I don't care about the "but it's too chaotic!" argument, the thing that matters is that it is meant to counter the Wudang, which means we need it. They are the guys most likely to come after us because they are the qi specialists, so they are the most qualified to deal with Zhang's apprentice (I agree with Esquilax, he likely has a history with them). I want to be ready when they come.

Could be persuaded to the CHA+LCK boost for maximum leadership amd future horse riding. Khandom and Pimpin'.

treave, will our qi allow us to work with naturally chaotic elements like fire and lightning?
Also, why did Zhang take us as an apprentice? Why does he give shit about our potential? I'd like to hear it in his words, if possible.

 

[treave]

treave, will our qi allow us to work with naturally chaotic elements like fire and lightning?
Also, why did Zhang take us as an apprentice? Why does he give shit about our potential? I'd like to hear it in his words, if possible.

What's so chaotic about fire and lightning? They're downright orderly when compared to the primordial, dark, seething, boundless, infinite chaos that your energy represents. At any rate, your qi and your neigong cannot be trained or modified without triggering certain events. If you'll notice, it's not tied to your endurance cap. It's entirely separate. You're unique, a special little snowflake. For the foreseeable future you can't learn any other type of neigong other than Primordial Chaos. That means you won't be able to learn elemental neigong.

I said it in the update, he wants you to be a fighter without peer and believes you have the potential. If you're not satisfied with the logic and think there must be more to his goals, feel free to speculate on your own until more information is revealed in further updates.

edit: Seriously, bro, patience. :/

 

[Nevill]

I am withholding my opinion on the recent turn of events to discuss more pressing concerns of character building. Let us start with the analysis graciously provided by Esquilax:

A: Jing becomes craftier and more patient.
B: Same as A, but he enjoys the thrill of the hunt and hones his killer instinct further.
C: Learns the power of brute force and intimidation, and how that can be used to his advantage. I doubt it'll make him crazy and forceful like Zhang, but it'll definitely make him comfortable with throwing down. I'd be comfortable with violence too if I was as strong as a grizzly bear.
D: Makes Jing calmer and more compassionate, but perhaps a bit melancholic due to having lost all his animal friends.

How would these personalities work out in a hypothetical scenario? Suppose there is a walled mansion in the city, and we need to get inside for some reason, but there is a guard at the gate.

A - Jing watches the guard and takes mental notes. If the guard is greedy, he arranges for a purse to be dropped somewhere away from the gate. While the guard is busy picking up coins, Jing tackles the lock on the gate and sneaks by. There is a question of how to get back, but finding a way out is easier than finding a way in.
B - Jing scales the wall at night, unbeknownst to the residents of the mansion. If any of them stumble upon anything suspicious and try to check it out, all they would notice is a shadow, before being knocked out cold. No one ever finds that it was Jing who was there when he is done with the place.
C - Jing threatens the guard, or makes him submit, if need be. If help arrives, Jing would intimidate them to let him pass by making an example of one of the less lucky sods.
D - Jing will pretend to be a messenger and convince the guard there is an urgent business he needs to take care of inside the mansion. Nothing he hadn't done before.

Which is better and why? DISCUSS!

I am strongly opposed to C. Already there are voices among us that dislike the sheer brutality of Zhang's teachings and seek a way to make them less lethal by pulling our punches - to overcome and subdue enemies, not to maim - yet you vote to make Jing even stronger and deadlier? It is not just the statistic bonuses we are talking about here. Do I need to point out that with this, you are essentially drowning the last bits of your common sense in wine to revel in primal violence and bloodshed? I am sure it will do wonders for what remains of Jing's sanity when the Maniac is done with him. We should learn to control our power, not let it control us.

D is... unorthodox among unorthodox, in a way. Like it or not, you are walking a path of a killer. Whether you prefer to be a brutish force of destruction that blasts away all it touches, or a calm and calculating mind capable of surgical strikes, it does not change who you are at the core. A sociable killer with a poetic streak seems... well, counter-intuitive. It would be the best way to counteract the Maniac's influence, sure, and is a brilliant mean of showing resistance without actually going against the man. But did we come here completely against our will, that we are willing not to listen for what the Maniac has to teach? If you are not enticed in the least by the perspectives your new life offers you, why did you even approach Zhang at Luoying Manor? It also has the worst synergy with how we played our character so far.

A is somewhat interesting. You can never have enough Intelligence, a single point here is worth two, because with every new point you find ways to amplify your advantages. But it comes packed with the worst skill increase out of all choices.

B, on the other hand, sounds awesome.

It does not misplace a single point of its bonuses. Intelligence and Perception are nice, but what do you need Traps for? Up until now, Jing was the type to face his enemies up close and personal, not rely on contraptions. What would be the point to rely on traps when we aspire to be the greatest unarmed martial artist there was? It's just a waste. Strength and Endurance are great, but Drinking? Are you going for a berserker kind of a warrior, trying to whip yourself into drunken frenzy? Madness lies on this way. Charisma seems good, but Luck? We forge our own luck, and we become more powerful in the process. Why would you try to enhance the statistics that is bad to the point of defining our character? A Luck of 2 is just as bad as 1 from a narrative point of view, and you pass on the chance to emphasize one of our real strengths.

But Agility and Sneak combined in one package? Backed up and amplified by our Qinggong technique that pushes it up to the human limits and maybe even higher? GIMME! With 9 AG and Mad Wolf Step we would be unseen. Undetected. Invisible. Invincible, for you can not kill that which you do not see. A few skill increases later, this would allow for feats that can be considered legendary. At night we would be able to take on a fortress on our own, silently, man by man, and none would be the wiser. We could run up walls and cling to the ceiling, vanishing in plain sight. Hell, with Sneak 10, we could stand right besides Shun and people will look straight though us without noticing us. No matter how you look at it, Sneak only has Speech as its equal for powergaming purposes.

If you want to show mercy to your enemies, it would be so much easier to knock them out unconscious if they never knew you were there. So it is also a way to protect our humanity, should we desire so. We need to keep our head cool without succumbing to the murderous chaos that is our qi. What better way to rein it in if not to choose the path that teaches us to be patient, to lie in wait, to strike only when needed? The path of the Tiger, as opposed to the path of the Grizzly Bear.

I urge all bros that do not want Jing to end up a seething mass of pure madness to reconsider their votes and unite to promote anything but C. I don't care if it is B, though I do think it suits our character's needs best, capitalizing on his strongest points without being detrimental to his personal growth.

As for the second part of the vote, I would like to join the choir that warns us of the dangers of the Wudang Sect. We have become a monstrosity that is an affront to their teachings by the sheer fact we exist. I expect some of them would try to challenge us just to ensure that their ways are true.

BB.

I said it in the update, he wants you to be a fighter without peer and believes you have the potential. If you're not satisfied with the logic and think there must be more to his goals, feel free to speculate on your own until more information is revealed in further updates.

I believe that he means that, too, and not in a good way. He is also our peer. He will push us further and further until either we are dead, or strong enough to put an end to him (and thus become his greatest triumph). I am afraid we will need to flee him at one point, though it is still quite far in the future.

 

[Tigranes]

I think what I wanted to say has been outlined pretty well by Esquilax and Nevill. I agree that 8->9STR is a big bonus and a tempting one, but in terms of this representing Jing's months/years of training with the Maniac C seems a big risk personality-wise. And after that, in terms of mixing new styles, moderating our chaotic cmbat style, etc., etc., 1B is clearly the way. I also think we will have many places where we need subterfuge given our Super-Unorthodox status and the Killer Nuns.

BB for now.

 

[Azira]

You make compelling arguments, yes, but str, end and drinking boosts? Just too manly.

 

[Nevill]

Oh, the Maniac is the embodiment of manliness. Wasn't this why we approached him?*

But no way, no how, am I going to be Maniac Jr. We are a warrior, not a brute.

* Or was it because he was sitting alone, all shirtless and scarred, and Jing felt compelled to make him company? :D

 

[Baltika9]

I am strongly opposed to C. Already there are voices among us that dislike the sheer brutality of Zhang's teachings and seek a way to make them less lethal by pulling our punches - to overcome and subdue enemies, not to maim - yet you vote to make Jing even stronger and deadlier? It is not just the statistic bonuses we are talking about here. Do I need to point out that with this, you are essentially drowning the last bits of your common sense in wine to revel in primal violence and bloodshed? I am sure it will do wonders for what remains of Jing's sanity when the Maniac is done with him. We should learn to control our power, not let it control us.
...
I urge all bros that do not want Jing to end up a seething mass of pure madness to reconsider their votes and unite to promote anything but C. I don't care if it is B, though I do think it suits our character's needs best, capitalizing on his strongest points without being detrimental to his personal growth.

I think what I wanted to say has been outlined pretty well by Esquilax and Nevill. I agree that 8->9STR is a big bonus and a tempting one, but in terms of this representing Jing's months/years of training with the Maniac C seems a big risk personality-wise. And after that, in terms of mixing new styles, moderating our chaotic cmbat style, etc., etc., 1B is clearly the way. I also think we will have many places where we need subterfuge given our Super-Unorthodox status and the Killer Nuns.

BB for now.

I completely disagree and don't buy the morality argument. I could make a similar case for every single one of the options being corrupted by our KAY-HOSS:
A- we become a cold and detached stalker, using our wits and perceptiveness to cripple our enemies before the fight even starts and kill them quickly and efficiently. With no morals, I see no reason we can't start poisoning our traps. Kind of like Young Senya.
B- we become a crazier and more PTSD-ing version of Rambo and Frank Castle. Using our stealth, we stalk our prey and strike before they can react, murdering them by the dozens. Again, I see nothing from stopping us from stooping to poison.
C- we become a Khorne's younger brother. Enough said.
D- we become a charming sociopath like Dio, using our silver tongue to manipulate people without any concern or regards for their well being, caring only for our own goals.

Conversely, here are the possibilities of them panning out well:
A- we become a reclusive ranger-type, kind of like Legolas (faggy elf choice), good with the woodlands, reclusive and reserved but an intelligent and charming man when he needs to be.
B- recon-scout type. Like Aragorn, brusque and slightly rude, good dude at heart and a charmer when he needs to be.
C- we become a good-natured boisterous fighter-BRO. Dangerous enemy, but the best friend you can possibly have. Intelligent and charismatic, he is also an inspiring leader from the front.
D- charming rogue, gets all the pussy with his poems and charisma. Still steps on nails, but at least they aren't rusty anymore. Hopefully can ride horses now.

What matters is how we act on it: we can be a douchebag and misuse our abilities with every choice (yeah, stealth can be used for evil, traps, intelligence, all of it), or we can be a decent human being. We will always struggle with our inner chaos, no matter option we choose and these "morality" arguments I consider, well, bullshit.

 

[Baltika9]

Or, let me put it like this:
treave, will we get a chance to assert our own personality from Zhang, or will the choice we make in 1 automatically railroad us into a certain degree of sociopathy?

 

[Nevill]

B- we become a crazier and more PTSD-ing version of Rambo and Frank Castle. Using our stealth, we stalk our prey and strike before they can react, murdering them by the dozens. Again, I see nothing from stopping us from stooping to poison.

At least we would be sober. Stalking our prey is the idea, yes. We are a killer, and we currently learn how to kill things.

Poison seems counter-productive for unarmed combat.

C- we become a good-natured boisterous fighter-BRO. Dangerous enemy, but the best friend you can possibly have. Intelligent and charismatic, he is also an inspiring leader from the front.

Sorry, I don't buy good-natured boisterous fighter-BRO, whose techniques rely on ripping flesh off enemies' bones. Would make sparring sessions messy.

What matters is how we act on it: we can be a douchebag and misuse our abilities with every choice (yeah, stealth can be used for evil, traps, intelligence, all of it), or we can be a decent human being.

I see C as succumbing to our primal instincts (by drowning conscious thoughts with alcohol, no less), while in B we have to maintain control over it to be successful.

 

[Tigranes]

No, that's just a form of absurdist argument; every cchoice can be made to look morally terrible if you choose to project the most pathological forms of each choice. You can't say "here are best and worst for each choice, since each one could be bad pick the one that has the best best". As if they all have the same weight or chance! It's already been argued how C, synergising with the Maniac's teachings and tendencies and our surroundings is much more likely to shift us the wrong way.

 

[Kashmir Slippers]

I always find it incredibly amusing the great lengths some of you go into when making things up to get people to vote like you.

 

[Baltika9]

No, that's just a form of absurdist argument; every cchoice can be made to look morally terrible if you choose to project the most pathological forms of each choice. You can't say "here are best and worst for each choice, since each one could be bad pick the one that has the best best". As if they all have the same weight or chance! It's already been argued how C, synergising with the Maniac's teachings and tendencies and our surroundings is much more likely to shift us the wrong way.

Which is exactly what you guys are attempting with 1C, focusing on the absolute negative outcome and ignoring the positive outcome. Since those are the grounds you based the arguments on, I reciprocated. My point was that our chaos can come into play with every single choice, what matters is how we deal with it.

So, yes, I consider it unfair that you are judging 1C so extremely and painting the other choices in a strictly positive light.

I always find it incredibly amusing the great lengths some of you go into when making things up to get people to vote like you.

That's the name of the game here.

 

[Esquilax]

Baltika9, I disagree with that assessment entirely. There is a lot more to the stat choice here than just numbers, and it isn't quite as cut-and-dry as you're trying to make it out to be. You just want a badass fighter with a ton of strength and you don't want to look at the possible downsides - I really think there's some wishful thinking on your part here:

Well it does go without saying how you approach the beasts will have an effect on your psyche, stats aside.

I mean, duh. Look, if you are serious about trying to have Jing maintain an even keel and mitigate the effect of Zhang's teachings on him, D is the only way to go. On paper, I agree that it isn't that great, but the intangibles that it presents will allow us to resist a lot of the negative aspects of his teachings. It has been mentioned before that insanity is a consequence of some unorthodox techniques, and we've seen it with the mysterious Lady-in-Black and obviously the Southern Maniac, are perfect examples of that. You want the cool stat choice to be the one that allows you to direct the personality, but that's wishful thinking, because it doesn't work like that.

For instance:

D. Befriending. In a stroke of rare good fortune, you somehow managed to befriend the animals. Your master was slightly amused at your approach, and proceeded to kill all of your animal friends. You were inspired to compose a great poem to lament their passing. (CHA+1, LUC+1, Artistic Skill+2)
...
D- we become a charming sociopath like Dio, using our silver tongue to manipulate people without any concern or regards for their well being, caring only for our own goals.

How the fuck do you get "WE COULD END UP JUST LIKE DIO!!!!" from this? You made such an absurd jump from "making friends with animals" to "using people like Dio". All of Zhang's techniques are lethal killing techniques; therefore, if we aren't actually killing, we aren't succumbing to the downsides of his teachings. D is the only choice here that doesn't involve killing.

You're not arguing in good faith here. Really, if you're serious about trying to maintain our own will without succumbing to the inherent corruption of Zhang's teachings - and yes, there must be downsides to tapping into the dark, primordial nature of our infinitely chaotic qi - then D is the only conscionable choice to allow us to maintain independence. I said before that if we are to keep our character's psyche stable, we will have to place morality about pragmatism, and I believe that this is a perfect example of that. There's a reason that these techniques are unorthodox, and we know that a lot of them can be dangerous to the person who practices them.

From a powergaming perspective, one of the upsides happens to be that LCK upgrades will be far rarer than any physical stat upgrades. So if we neglect this one, well, it's gone forever.

 

[treave]

Traumatized by the murder of his furry friends, after composing his greatest work ever Jing paints himself in their blood and makes a mask and cape out of the poor dead tiger's pelt.

Meanwhile, Zhang proudly hangs up the poem about the massacre in his library as an artistic testament to his deeds, because that's just how he rolls.

Or, let me put it like this:
treave, will we get a chance to assert our own personality from Zhang, or will the choice we make in 1 automatically railroad us into a certain degree of sociopathy?

You don't hang around the Southern Maniac for a year and a half without picking up a healthy disregard for the sanctity of life, but that doesn't mean you're automatically a baby-eating mass murderer either. I suppose without giving too much away, a bit of both. There are no choices here that will immediately turn you into "I MUST SLAUGHTER FOR THE SAKE OF BECOMING THE MOST POWERFUL MARTIAL ARTIST". Not even Zhang has reached that level of insanity. You might start on the slippery slope to that end, yes. But there'll always be chances to veer away from that path, though you might end up making sacrifices to do so.