[LP CYOA] 傳

[Tigranes]

Oh, and I think I forgot to vote: C1 > C2.

 

[ScubaV]

C1 > C2 (Zhang Jue). Man Tiger Pig (for the lulz)

Sadly it appears it won't win as Codex cannot into morally grey Geralt.

 

[Baltika9]

Look, whichever way you cut it, C1/C2 does everything B2 does and more. Your point about socialising with our marks more? We can do that with C2, we already went over this a dozen times - we can take our mask off in the locker room with that option. Sorry for sounding like a dick but you keep saying again and again the same mistaken stuff.

Maybe I'm being extremely dense here, but how do you see that playing out in such a public venue? Just take our mask off in front of everyone and pretend to be someone else? Furthermore, how the hell will you explain away our merchant persona's presence in the "locker room" if it's not participating in the fights? "Oh, I'm a paparazzi." isn't an option, sadly. That's what I don't get about the C1/C2 plan. We have to be our persona inside the arena, only switching to the merchant outside of it.

Sadly it appears it won't win as Codex cannot into morally grey Geralt.

We don't have a White Wolf option, so I'm not getting the parallel here.

 

[treave]

The competition does not have cash as a prize. Traditionally the winner has been able to petition any of the heads of the Eight Sects for a single favor, within reason. There might be other goodies which change every year, like weapons or manuals. If you don't win, you get nothing.

As for the moral compass of our character, how far he's willing to go depends on who's giving the order, whether or not he thinks it's right, etc. Perhaps I could get a bit more details on what you'd like to see in the explanation?

Edit: regarding raising int, any further chances won't be easy to come across, so it's not a given. It would also involve either dubious or perhaps supernatural methods.

 

[Nevill]

Nevertheless, in the middle of your rant, you never really answered my question - what's your goal?

Overarching goal - help Shun resolve the pugilistic conspiracy. Make him ascend the throne and restore order to the country.
Personal goal - live happily ever after with Qilin, Cao'er and Yunzi. Yifeng is highly desirable, Twin Flowers are optional.
Current goal - continue Zhang's apprenticeship for as long as we are able to without breaking character. Start looking for alternatives and powerful allies in case we need to hightail it. I don't want to live in Zhang's shadow forever.

Look, we possess mostly lethal techniques and are under a mission from a man who is universally feared and hated - we'll be in a position in which we might have to kill someone in the future, and you have to accept that.

I accept that. What I won't accept is this line of thought: "we'll end up doing it eventually, so we might as well start now". We'll cross that bridge when we come to it and if there would be absolutely no other way. Not earlier.

Not true, we'd still have our merchant boy persona for the times that we aren't in the ring - this is why we take off the mask and switch back into the merchant persona.

When I wrote 'behind the scenes', I meant 'the locker room'. C1 locks this choice out. We could have learned the information from the outside without participating in the tournament at all, but this was deemed ineffective, which brought us here.

I have no issues with the rest of your post here, but what is your view of the character? I am getting the feeling that at times you are treating Xu Jing as the character that you want him to be rather than the character that he is.

I am shaping the character as I play it. He is an amalgamation of what he currently is, and what I make him strive to be. Otherwise, if he was always the same, there would be no character development.

treave never writes the options that are completely out of character for his protagonists. You don't have to worry about keeping Jing in character - if the option is there, Jing can rationalize it. We are allowed to give him a friendly shove in the direction we would like him to take. I exercise this right.

For example, I may not like Jing being overly loyal, but there is no doubt that he is, right now. We won't be seeing a choice that would allow Jing to ignore a direct order from the prince any time soon. I want him to start questioning that sort of behavior, making use of his own head more often. What people say they want may not exactly turn out to be what they need. I want Jing to have an open mind.

Not saying characters can't change and evolve, but perhaps you see him as a lot more heroic than I do.

Right now, we are seeing the same character. It is his future that we see differently.

Okay, about B2 and open face, I am starting to scare myself with possible failure scenarios, being a paranoiac that I am.

I wonder if we can make out identity secret to the public but not the other contestants. We'll still be the merchant for them, but there won't be a risk of us being recognized by some unexpected spectators. I am sure Jing can come up with a convincing excuse.

 

[Tigranes]

Baltika9 It depends on how the tournament logistics work. E.g. let's say the arena is public and the locker-room is private, and participants have some room to walk around and stay out of the spotlight - I'm thinking the great Martial Arts tournament in Dragon Ball. In that case, there is plenty of opportunity to walk around as a normal fellow then privately don our mask. What if the locker-room is much more of an open space and we can't really do that? Well, easy - we can keep our mask on, but, say, give a knowing wink to our Shaolin friend saying hey I'm just doing this because I'm nervous or I hope it gives me a small edge to overcome my deficiencies, be a bro. Finally, what if it turns out that the participants really hate or distrust the masked fellows for some random reason and won't socialise with us? Take it off in the lockerroom! Even in that least efficient scenario, it is the same as B2 but better, because at least our face won't be recognised by everyone watching the tournament!

Seriously, it's super straightforward. With C2, we are foregoing the scheming of C1 and we wil not draw ANY more suspicion than B2. What we are doing is taking a very simple low-risk move to ensure that our face, which will be hyper-visible in B2, is a little less visible.

Nevill: I agree that Jing is still defined by his loyalty and decency, and I see him as a kind of Chaotic Good guy within the pugilistic world, for now. I just don't see how C1 or C2 contravenes that.

 

[Baltika9]

Are both choices counted separately or in blocks? Edit: also, how is the fighter's area set up?

 

[treave]

Regarding the locker room space, yes, public arena, private backstage area. I'm sure Tigranes is thinking of Jackie Chun here, and that's basically how it'd work. Except with more complications, but you already expect that I'm sure.

Choices are counted in blocks.

Edit: I do have to point out that if you use Zhang Jue's name, of all people, in a pig's mask, saying that you're wearing the mask because you're nervous is not an option if they discover you.

 

[Nevill]

Nevill: I agree that Jing is still defined by his loyalty and decency, and I see him as a kind of Chaotic Good guy within the pugilistic world, for now. I just don't see how C1 or C2 contravenes that.

Well, there is another, more personal matter. I am very bad at intrigues. :D

Double false identity is the kind of game I try to avoid, because I always lose. I wouldn't know how to exploit the confusion. B2 seem more straightforward to me, and easier to navigate. Better the devil you know, and all that.

 

[Tigranes]

Regarding the locker room space, yes, public arena, private backstage area. I'm sure Tigranes is thinking of Jackie Chun here, and that's basically how it'd work. Except with more complications, but you already expect that I'm sure.

Choices are counted in blocks.

Edit: I do have to point out that if you use Zhang Jue's name, of all people, in a pig's mask, saying that you're wearing the mask because you're nervous is not an option if they discover you.

Of course.

Oh, obviously. In C1, we would never take off the mask; we would take on a brazen and surreal demeanour, or perhaps a mildly deranged one, making our connection to the merchant's son even more tenuous. In C2, we would just go as Wild Pig or something. Basically, my point is: I can understand people who don't want to vote C1 because they are risk-averse or want to stay anonymous above all else. I can't understand why the same people wouldn't choose C2, given it actually increases our anonymity. Anonymity doesn't mean not saying anything and staying quiet, anonymity means taking steps to ensure you remain unidentifiable.

 

[Nevill]

Uhhh... can you actually explain your view of C2 to me, again?

Are we still the merchant who takes the mask off when he goes back to the locker room? Because that is how I picture my B2 right now.

I don't know if B means we mask up and also stay the merchant's son - since only C explicitly talks about masks and what you buy. Or does C mean we mask off later?

I'm willing to keep it flexible. The tournament takes place over a number of days. Now that you have a place to stay, do you keep the mask on as you return, or do you take it off somewhere in the city before going back to the inn, and repeat the same thing the next day?

As I understand it, B2 does not exclude the mask... does it?

 

[treave]

Huh, didn't realize that Tigranes was talking about B there. My bad. Thought he was asking about C. You will only buy a mask in C.

 

[Nevill]

Alright, bros, I think I might have misjudged what was written.

I want Jing to be an amiable persona that he is and befriend other pugilists to milk them for information for what''s it worth.

I do not want, however, to show our face in public, risking to find Rong Muben among the spectators. Don a mask when you go out in the open, take it off when you are in the locker room.

C2 in these circumstances behaves the same way B2 does, and does not carry that risk. We'll still be the merchant where it counts.

Flopped to C2.

 

[Tigranes]

Yeah, that was my understanding too. Probably I messed up somewhere. Let's get this crystal clear:

B2 = No mask anywhere. We participate as Merchant's Son, face bare, in tournament and locker room. We go with humble not-very-good dude.
C1 = Mask everywhere. We participate as Zhang Jue. We sow confusion and probably disavow merchant's son identity.
C2 = Mask in tournament. We participate as Wild Pig, but are willing to mask off in the locker room to socialise. We say the mask is for nerves.

That is why I am saying: I like C1, but if you guys want no-risk anonymity, go with C2, not B2.

Nevill It took long enough but glad to see we can actually communicate

 

[XenomorphII]

The problem in going with C is that we are basically forfeiting all possible locker room interactions. The people that don these masks seem to be shunned, so I don't see us getting many chances to chat people up. But our current alias, he has already made some named friends in one sect and met fighters of the others. People backstage will be far more likely to talk with us.

 

[Tigranes]

.....


XenomorphII and everyone else, for the ultimate TL,DR:
C2 = wear mask in arena so our face is not exposed (e.g. to Rong Muben), retain merchant persona in locker room. Spin reason for mask to nerves.
B2 = exactly the same benefits, but we show our face to the world

 

[Nevill]

Yes, if people know who we are, which we'll ensure they do, they won't have a reason to shun us. We'll be known by our current alias inside and as a Wild Pig outside. As most of the interaction we want to be doing is inside, it is a fair trade-off for safety.

We might miss on meeting with Cao'er or even Xiahou, but that might turn out to be a GOOD thing.

 

[kazgar]

Using our masters name would surely be a dishonourable thing in this world, and considering this tournament is only for young people and we don't have his build, would surely be seen as a affront by most involved.

 

[Nevill]

And where does C2 use our master's name?

C2 = Mask in tournament. We participate as Wild Pig, but are willing to mask off in the locker room to socialise. We say the mask is for nerves.

C. You run out and try to purchase a mask, but you find that the tiger and wolf masks are all gone. All that is left is a pig’s mask. You register under the pseudonym:
Wild Pig

2. You do not do anything about the rumours. Your method of registration will have the desired effect by itself.

 

[treave]

Or it could just unlock a special lucky bonus event where Zhang appears in Luoyang on a whim to see if his disciple is participating.

 

[Nevill]

Zero Credibility, Grimgravy, Kashmir Slippers, Baltika9,

From what I've seen of your posts, they do not appear to be contrarian to the purposes of C2. They were opposing C1. Can you consider flopping?

For that matter, Kipeci, how about it? Since you was pondering over flopping to B2.

 

[XenomorphII]

.....


XenomorphII and everyone else, for the ultimate TL,DR:
C2 = wear mask in arena so our face is not exposed (e.g. to Rong Muben), retain merchant persona in locker room. Spin reason for mask to nerves.
B2 = exactly the same benefits, but we show our face to the world

I don't think it will play out that well. We are too scared/nervous about to show our face in the tournament, even though we had the balls to walk up to the guy that everyone thought was the Maniac's Apprentice and have a chat with him. That will raise suspicions.

 

[Nevill]

Ever heard of fear of public appearance? Doesn't have anything to do with balls. It is your first time, they'll understand.

 

[Tigranes]

A fair point. But if so, how is B2 going to be any better with this? If we were pegged as naive or foolish for approaching the farmer, C2 will synergise well; if we were pegged as foolhardy and Having Mucho Balls, then we will be under scrutiny during the touranment whatever we do, with the added problem of showing our whole face to the world. So B2 doesn't increase our chances at locker-room socialisation either way.

 

[LWC1996]

B2