Baldur's Gate Let's DISCUSS Infinity Engine combat and Baldur's Gate with random noobs

[Goblino]

I'll bet I would have liked it if it had a totally different look, and voice actors who tried.... and writing that tried beyond the novel narrative style. If BG1 coated in cyberpunk paint and the characters were..... What if there was a Shin Megami Tensei game like this, fusing and everything. I'd vacuum that shit up and suck dicks for seconds.

 

[Sensuki]

Sensuki
Are you all of a sudden admitting that BG's were good due to their " world design" and not due to their gameplay?

Exploration is part of the gameplay. I enjoy the low level feel of the BG1 encounters as well. The combat is pretty simple and easy once you get the hang of it, but I still enjoy it. It goes without saying that it is for the most part better in BG2 and IWD:HoW. In BG1 they got the baseline right (even if by accident), unlike Pillars of Eternity.

 

[Krraloth]

I can take some heat, I just got caught up in the wrong discussion. Dropping BG is fresh on my mind.

You know what fuck it. Crimson shroud did what BG set out for better and it was a linear turn based game with static character models. Baldurs gate is shit because they barely touched on a d&d game. Why use a system like d&d has in a game with so little player agency. In the end, I just don't like baldurs fucking gate. I'm sorry y'all can't see why it's boring as hell after I laid it out.

Except that in BG you don't get stuck waiting for a fucking random key drop requiring you to farm the same encounter time and time and time again like you do in Crimson Shroud.
That is just an awful awful design choice in my book, the comparison makes my blood boil.

 

[Average Manatee]

In a lot of the spaces where you wrote 'fucking nothing' there is often an encounter, and there is a group of Ogres, Ogre Berserkers and Hobgoblin Elites on the north bridge. BG1 areas are not perfect and I agree that a little bit more content density and more involving quests would go a long way into making the areas feel better. I like the general idea though.

When the only thing to find are trash mobs that give less than 1% experience and I can't even be bothered to drag half of the stuff back to a merchant to sell, I call that "fucking nothing".

You also have to keep in mind that a huge problem is that most of the areas in BG1 end up populated by the *same* enemies. Clearing 5 maps of one enemy to then clear 5 maps of another enemy is really horrible. BG2 avoided this really well by having a huge roster of enemies.

 

[ArchAngel]

In a lot of the spaces where you wrote 'fucking nothing' there is often an encounter, and there is a group of Ogres, Ogre Berserkers and Hobgoblin Elites on the north bridge. BG1 areas are not perfect and I agree that a little bit more content density and more involving quests would go a long way into making the areas feel better. I like the general idea though.

When the only thing to find are trash mobs that give less than 1% experience and I can't even be bothered to drag half of the stuff back to a merchant to sell, I call that "fucking nothing".

You also have to keep in mind that a huge problem is that most of the areas in BG1 end up populated by the *same* enemies. Clearing 5 maps of one enemy to then clear 5 maps of another enemy is really horrible. BG2 avoided this really well by having a huge roster of enemies.

We understand you don't enjoy it, but we do. Personally I find it very relaxing to roam those big maps watching nice backgrounds and listening to nice music. And to contrast that, there are plenty of adventuring groups that then give you a nice challenge as a change of pace. And there are plenty of cool special or funny encounters you find on those maps, much more interesting than anything I found in PoE on its overland maps.

 

[Sensuki]

When the only thing to find are trash mobs that give less than 1% experience and I can't even be bothered to drag half of the stuff back to a merchant to sell, I call that "fucking nothing".

You also have to keep in mind that a huge problem is that most of the areas in BG1 end up populated by the *same* enemies. Clearing 5 maps of one enemy to then clear 5 maps of another enemy is really horrible. BG2 avoided this really well by having a huge roster of enemies.

I don't disagree that the BG1 areas could be improved. The BG2 Wilderness areas are not an improvement though.

 

[razvedchiki]

Im trying bg with SCS mod by the way,and got skullraped a dozen times.

Maybe the bg hate crowd should try the mod.

 

[Keldryn]

Im trying bg with SCS mod by the way,and got skullraped a dozen times.

Maybe the bg hate crowd should try the mod.

I'm playing BG:EE with SCS on my iPad, and I've had the same experiences. It feels like an entirely different game. Really wish I hadn't installed the "mages pre-cast spells" component though, as I think it goes too far. Was a pain to install mods on the iPad though, so I don't feel like redoing it.

The Bandit Camp, in particular, was fucking brutal. I learned to value wild mages when I had Neera successfully cast Cloudkill with a first level spell slot.

The original BG is rough around the edges (it was the first game for most of the team apparently), but it's still a damn good game. I played through it when it came out, again in late 2001, and this is my third time through. Honestly, I think that the writing is the weakest element of BG1, which improved tremendously in BG2. I'm playing with the BG1NPC mod this time, which improves the game significantly.

I also like exploring the wilderness areas; they're larges, but you move pretty quickly, and pretty much every map has something worth finding. Uncovering the fog of war is also strangely compelling. Reminds me of exploring every last square to fill in my automap in Might & Magic III - V.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

BG I is boring (vanilla, must admit). I don't see how that opinion is invalid. No walls of text or join date can change it.
BG II was very fun though.

 

[ArchAngel]

BG I is boring (vanilla, must admit). I don't see how that opinion is invalid. No walls of text or join date can change it.
BG II was very fun though.

It was boring to you. Not to millions of players that played it and loved it.

 

[Krraloth]

BG I is boring (vanilla, must admit). I don't see how that opinion is invalid. No walls of text or join date can change it.
BG II was very fun though.

It was boring to you. Not to millions of players that played it and loved it.

I feel like some people are talking about "how does BG hold up today" and others are talking about "how was BG when it came out".

 

[Daemongar]

\Once the GB games hit their wall and started being irrelevant, DnD video games were over. It got so bad that Interplay got so desperate that friggin' feargue had to bug the BIO Docs to take their RTS game/engine and turn it into DnD because Interplay (and others) had utterly failed at making a good DnD game.

L0L DTU L0L

Wrong. Has nothing to do with D&D license becoming irrelevant. Has to do with Descent to Undermountain coming out in 97.

 

[Volourn]

You are wrong. Why such idiocy on my Codex? Oh yeah, it's the Codex. More importantly, it's the internetz.

 

[Leitz]

The only thing I missed in the series are some crafty riddles and more interesting Dungeons. I'm a noob though.

 

[C.H.A.R.L.I.E]

BG 1 has good design and a playthrough of the main questline will take about 6-8 hours. Perfect for a rainy sunday.

 

[razvedchiki]

I'm playing BG:EE with SCS on my iPad, and I've had the same experiences. It feels like an entirely different game. Really wish I hadn't installed the "mages pre-cast spells" component though, as I think it goes too far. Was a pain to install mods on the iPad though, so I don't feel like redoing it.

The Bandit Camp, in particular, was fucking brutal. I learned to value wild mages when I had Neera successfully cast Cloudkill with a first level spell slot.

The original BG is rough around the edges (it was the first game for most of the team apparently), but it's still a damn good game. I played through it when it came out, again in late 2001, and this is my third time through. Honestly, I think that the writing is the weakest element of BG1, which improved tremendously in BG2. I'm playing with the BG1NPC mod this time, which improves the game significantly.

I also like exploring the wilderness areas; they're larges, but you move pretty quickly, and pretty much every map has something worth finding. Uncovering the fog of war is also strangely compelling. Reminds me of exploring every last square to fill in my automap in Might & Magic III - V.

have you played through to durlags tower?
i have come across a fucking bug which doesnt allow me to teleport from killing the 4 elementals to the CHESS room.

 

[Mustawd]

BG 1 has good design and a playthrough of the main questline will take about 6-8 hours. Perfect for a rainy sunday.

Joined: May 29, 2011

Messages: 2

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

BG 1 has good design and a playthrough of the main questline will take about 6-8 hours. Perfect for a rainy sunday.

Joined: May 29, 2011

Messages: 2

And now he has a 1:1 brofist ratio.

 

[Keldryn]

have you played through to durlags tower?
i have come across a fucking bug which doesnt allow me to teleport from killing the 4 elementals to the CHESS room.

Just started Durlag's tower so I haven't reached that point yet. I don't actually remember that part, as TOTSC wasn't out until after my original play through. I'll be on the lookout for that one, thanks for the heads up.

 

[Jaesun]

I kind of remember being stuck there too. IIRC the exit from that place is hard to see, and I just missed it.

 

[Daemongar]

You are wrong. Why such idiocy on my Codex? Oh yeah, it's the Codex. More importantly, it's the internetz.

Descent to Undermountain took a lot of resources away from Interplay, and ultimately led to some heavy problems. It wasn't "stagnance" of D&D, in fact, the IE games did pretty well. It was poor project management by Interplay. One could also point to D&D being sold to WotC in '97, with WotC announcing a 3rd edition of D&D in 97 that may have added some flux to the mix. But yeah, D&D became irrelevant. We don't even talk about PST, NWN 1&2, IWD or Temple of Elemental Evil anymore. Dummy.

 

[Azarkon]

I was never a big fan of BG, but what kept me exploring was that the combat & character system - ie watered down D&D - was fairly fun. It's no different from MMOs, where when you enjoy playing a class, grinding through mobs is fun even though the quest design is shit.

But I don't know why there's even an argument. BG 1 was hardly the epitome of encounter & quest design. It's fully capable of being criticized for having lots of fetch quests & kill quests & boring random encounters.

The lesson is that a great system goes a long way to redeem mediocre quest & encounter design. It doesn't solve it - BG is definitely not the game I'd bring up when it comes to excellent quest & encounter design - but it does make it less visible. Which says a lot about PoE, actually.

 

[octavius]

But I don't know why there's even an argument. BG 1 was hardly the epitome of encounter & quest design. It's fully capable of being criticized for having lots of fetch quests & kill quests & boring random encounters.

There are very few random encounters in BG1; the only truly random ones are when you travel between areas. There's a fair number of trash combats, but most of them can be avoided by scouting, or be over in a couple of seconds it you spent just one minute preparing by assigning combat scripts to you party members, and then turn AI on before killing the trash mobs.
The interesting encounters to random/trash encounters ratio in BG1 is still way higher than 99% of other CRPGs.
You can criticize BG1 for much, but complaining about the encounter design is rather absurd.

 

[Volourn]

"Descent to Undermountain took a lot of resources away from Interplay, and ultimately led to some heavy problems. It wasn't "stagnance" of D&D, in fact, the IE games did pretty well. It was poor project management by Interplay. One could also point to D&D being sold to WotC in '97, with WotC announcing a 3rd edition of D&D in 97 that may have added some flux to the mix. But yeah, D&D became irrelevant. We don't even talk about PST, NWN 1&2, IWD or Temple of Elemental Evil anymore. Dummy"
\
\You struck out again., You are listing a bunch of games that came out AFTER BG. between the 'height' of the GB games and BG's release simply weren't doing well. Also, PST, TOEE, IWD whatever one may think about their quality were AR BEST barely successful if not out right not successful.

There is a reason why Interplay/Feargus begged BIO to turn their RTS into a DnD game - their DnD licenseuseage had been iffy at the time and they needed a 'homerun'. BIO/BG (despite its flaws) delivered in spades.

\DEAL WITH IT.

 

[Azarkon]

But I don't know why there's even an argument. BG 1 was hardly the epitome of encounter & quest design. It's fully capable of being criticized for having lots of fetch quests & kill quests & boring random encounters.

There are very few random encounters in BG1; the only truly random ones are when you travel between areas. There's a fair number of trash combats, but most of them can be avoided by scouting, or be over in a couple of seconds it you spent just one minute preparing by assigning combat scripts to you party members, and then turn AI on before killing the trash mobs.
The interesting encounters to random encounters ratio in BG1 is still way higher than 99% of other CRPGs.
You can criticize BG1 for much, but complaining about the encounter design is rather absurd.

Random is not used as *literally randomly generated*, in this case, but as encounters that might as well have been randomly generated because it's just a couple of monsters that rush you while you're traveling in the wilderness. There were a lot of those in BG, from what I remember, and whether they're the targets of kill quests is fairly irrelevant because those quests might as well be randomly generated too.

Well-designed encounters & quests usually have depth. It's not just an ogre in a forest, a couple of wolves, a group of gnolls, a camp of bandits, etc. A game doesn't *need* to have a high ratio of well-designed encounters & quests to trash encounters & quests, but it'd be higher rated in my mind were it to do so without breaking immersion.