Lands of Lore - the Throne of Chaos

[Mother Russia]

Damned, the only lvl 4 spell my guys can cast is Sparks.

Nothing is stopping you from starting a new game when you finish this one with Conrad.

 

[Mother Russia]

Finally made it to the Vultur Chasme, and then it turns out there's no way to cross, and there are thousands of orcs on the other side? How am I supposed to get to the City of Evyl and get the "Mother Earth" reagent?

When you did the Draracle Caves, did you bring along that female NPC and drop her off at the Draracle?

Yes, why?

Oh and interesting bit of game lore: Dawn was supposed to be a joinable party member, but they took her out at some point during development. Apparently there is unfinished code in the game files that proves she was supposed to join instead of Paulson, or maybe replace Paulson at some point, or you got to choose between them.

 

[Jaesun]

When you did the Draracle Caves, did you bring along that female NPC and drop her off at the Draracle?

Yes, why?

Check out the city of Yvel then. I'll let you figure out the rest.

 

[octavius]

When you did the Draracle Caves, did you bring along that female NPC and drop her off at the Draracle?

Yes, why?

Check out the city of Yvel then. I'll let you figure out the rest.

Well, first I must find the bloody city. I thought I was on the right track when I found the Forest of Yvel.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

There are three forest maps, the third one (that has the Vulture Chasm) is the one that has the City of Yvel, the entrance to it is on the west side of the map. I believe you have to pass a second Barrier to get to it, so try to finish the top level of the White Tower first. You'll reach the Castle on the other side through Yvel city, so don't fret about that.

While on the subject of the White Tower, there is a section of it that can only be reached by dropping down a pit from above. You have to drop down from the top level, IIRC. But be careful, you'll be in for one hell of a fight down there...

This comes a bit late, but the Big Orc's axe (Dominance, right?) has a 5% chance to outright kill its target.

Some weapons are more powerful in the hands of specific people, but the Clue Book (that I happen to have) only mentions this for Baccata, not for Paulson or the player character.

If you still have it, you will want to hold on to an Axe called "Master", as it raises your Rogue level by 1. The Jade Amulet also does the same. Keep them around when trying to pick locks, as some locks can only be picked when your character is of a specific Rogue level... and in one chest in particular you need to have a REALLY high Rogue level.

As for Arbalests, avoid the one called "Equalizer", but the others should serve you well.

As for the spells... higher levels usually just mean greater damage. The exception is the Freeze spell, which also creates a temporary "wall" in the square, but if the monster in the square is strong enough (read: almost all of them) it will break free of the ice. Otherwise it'll stay dead in the iceblock.

Another exception is a spell that you haven't discovered yet. It's a bit of an Easter Egg, you'll know it when you spot it, the Lvl 1 version of it only pushes the enemy back one square, Lvl 2 does damage and pushes back, the other 2 levels just do damage.

 

[octavius]

There are three forest maps, the third one (that has the Vulture Chasm) is the one that has the City of Yvel, the entrance to it is on the west side of the map. I believe you have to pass a second Barrier to get to it, so try to finish the top level of the White Tower first. You'll reach the Castle on the other side through Yvel city, so don't fret about that.

Ah, so that's where it is! I thought it would just lead to Scothia's lair. Also the advice I've read has been to hold on to the second Cube and use it against the Ghosts in the White Tower, which is why I haven't explored that way yet.

While on the subject of the White Tower, there is a section of it that can only be reached by dropping down a pit from above. You have to drop down from the top level, IIRC. But be careful, you'll be in for one hell of a fight down there...

This comes a bit late, but the Big Orc's axe (Dominance, right?) has a 5% chance to outright kill its target.

Do you mean the Amazon leader? If so, I killed her quite easily. So I guess it's not her?

 

[Unkillable Cat]

...no, it's not her. This opponent doesn't shave. ;-)

If you have any questions about any named weapons, don't hesitate to ask. The Clue Book at least has a fantastic section on the weapons and their secondary/hidden abilities.

 

[octavius]

...no, it's not her. This opponent doesn't shave. ;-)

I found him! His "greeting" reminds me of The Butcher in Diablo. He was easier to kill, though - just one charge from the Wand of Death.
Falling down that pit from the top level of the White Tower was just about the only thing I hadn't tried.

If you have any questions but any named weapons, don't hesitate to ask. The Clue Book at least has a fantastic section on the weapons and their secondary/hidden abilities.

I double checked on GOG, but they don't have the Clue Book. However there is a website that I think have the information from the Clue Book.

EDIT: I'm a silly bunt. I had opened one of the chests on lvl 3 of the White Tower, but for some reason I hadn't emptied it. When double checking the entire Tower I finally found that last Mystic Key.

 

[Jaesun]

The Equalizer ALWAYS misses?

That weapon and armor list was interesting.

 

[octavius]

OK, I made the exlixir, took it to the Council, was told to find Dawn, saw through Scothia's disguise as Dawn, and found Dawn's rider killed.
But where is Dawn?

Also, mildly amusing parody of Norm, Sam and Cliff of Cheers at Bruno's in Yvel City.

 

[RK47]

So two cats, and a gay cobra walks into a bar...

anyways, if memory serves , go back to Yvel. Shit's happening.

 

[octavius]

OK, so I headed back to the city of Yvel, smashed some orc skulls and went down into the caves under "Cheers". We defeated the Dark Warlord and used his gauntlet to access another part of the cave. At one part the gauntlet opens a passege west and another one north. Going north there is lightning bolt that keeps pushing the party backwards and doing some damage. Is there any way to bypass it?

EDIT: never mind, seems like they are some kind of monsters that "eat" mana. But a Wand of Lighting saved me.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

They're the Necrosaps that the Clue Book talks about. Use Spark on them instead of Lightning, one L4 should kill them.

And yes, those pages are from the Clue book.

Sadly you're coming up on one of the dullest parts of the game. Hope you can stomach the drearyness.

 

[octavius]

They're the Necrosaps that the Clue Book talks about. Use Spark on them instead of Lightning, one L4 should kill them.

OK, that may have been more economical. Still, one or two lvl 2 Lightning Bolts did the trick.

Sadly you're coming up on one of the dullest parts of the game. Hope you can stomach the drearyness.

You mean the part where you have to choose which of the aliens to kill? The whole premise sounds incredibly stupid...

 

[Unkillable Cat]

It does, and has NO relation to any other part of the game. Obviously just filler to justify the usage of the dungeon level.

Defeating the Xeobs will grant all your characters an extra Mage level, but defeating the Knowles will grant your characters an extra Knight level.

Knowles tend to disarm your party, while the Xeobs eat your stuff.

Your call.

 

[octavius]

There's some extremely detailed discussion about this game at Abandonia.
Turns out there is an extra difficulty level after Ferocious called Nightmare, which you can access by hex editing.

The game looks deceptively simple, but there's lots of hidden stuff.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Yeah, the Clue Book lists items that aren't in the game. The Cloud and Zephyr Rings, for example.

 

[octavius]

So, any hints for the last levels?
I released Dawn from her cage, found the Gold and Silver keys and then I found Scotia, but I have a feeling I found her too soon.
I still haven't found King Richard, nor any place to use the Dawn's Key and the three other keys.
I've found four figurines. The first one I placed in an alcove, then both figurine and alcove disappeared.
I saw an ornate lock somewhere, but now I can't remember where I saw it. I tried one of the four named keys on it, but it didn't fit.
I still have some unused keys: Oily Key, Adder Key, Small Key, Iron Key, Ebony Key and Death Key. I used lockpicks one a couple of doors, though.

Also, there is one place south on lvl 1 of the castle with two pits and two nearby buttons. Pressing the buttons only removes the closest pit, but not the other one. I tried throwing stuff in case of a pressure plate on the other side, but no luck.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

The four figurines are needed to "defuse" King Richard's casket, you won't use them until you get there. The four pyramid keys will then be used to free King Richard.

You are NOT to confront Scotia until you've freed King Richard.

I can't recall the alcove you mentioned, but odds are about 50/50 that you're screwed. It might be somewhere else, or it might be gone for good.

There's one door with a fancy lock that can't be opened in the "normal" manner.

The Small Key unlocks a chest beyond an "unopenable" door, according to the LoL experts over at Abandonia.

IIRC, the Death key unlocks the door leading to King Richard.

There is a place somewhere in Castle Cimmeria where there are two pits, and one of them is an illusion, but I think it's on Level 2 rather than 1.

EDIT: Looked up a walkthrough. You can't do anything about the second pit on Level 1, apparentely.

You need the Carrion Key to reach King Richard, and you get it by mucking about with the aforementioned illusionary pit.

 

[octavius]

Thanks, Unkillable Cat.
I have several save games, one of which is at the very start of the Castle. So I I'll have to replay it and keep in mind that fake pit and to not lose that figurine.

 

[octavius]

Finally completed the game!

I like Geron's smile and Dawn's "come to my chambers tonight for your reward" look.

I redid the whole Cimmerian Castle and noticed that I had overlooked the two buttons leading to the area holding King Richard (with the freakishly long arms). Also, i discovered that the alcove that gobbled up one of the figurines the first time will accept anything and then close. So unless the item ends up somewhere else that is a possible game stopping bug.

I must say this game was a pleasant surprise. It was harder than I had expected, but the respawning could get rather frustrating.
The graphics and especially the animations were very impressive compared to the other games of the same era I've played recently.

I don't think the puzzles and level design were of the same quality as that of Dungeon Master and Chaos Strikes Back, though, so I'll rank it on third place amongst the real time blobbers together with Black Crypt, after CSB and DM, but before games like Eye of the Beholder and Abandoned Places.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

If you want to bang Dawn, play Lands of Lore 2 as a good Luthor.

As for my opinion on LoL? It's one of the most beautiful dungeon crawlers ever made, I'll give it that, and most of its puzzles and level design are decent enough. Most... but not all. This game degenerates into sludge right about the time you meet the Dark Commander. There is clearly so much content cut from the game. Once the invasion of Yvel City begins, the game is on rails, and everything "conveniently works out". Plot points like how Scotia got her hands on Nathaniel's key are ignored, and the subplot of the blacksmith being a spy is almost completely overlooked. So much effort is put into creating backstory and atmosphere for the Lands, yet the story is rushed through at the end? 'Sloppy' doesn't begin to describe this.

LoL is the only dungeon crawler I know of where there are doors that are NOT MEANT TO BE OPENED. Ever. Westwood were too lazy to get them right, and again too lazy to remove them from the game. LoL is also the only dungeon crawler I know of where people generally don't have a clue what's going on under the engine. The guys over at Abandonia made great progress (like finding out that Michael is the best spellcaster in the game!) but overall it's all still a mystery, 20 years after the game's release. And this isn't some obscure fan-project from Eastern Europe (hello Cardhalia) but a Triple AAA product of its time. Lands of Lore 2 is even worse in this regard. Westwood Studios were, in general, sloppy in their work. This is even visible in EOB1&2, but in no way as badly as in LoL.

Let's not forget that except for a few chokepoints of difficulty, LoL is one of the easier dungeon crawlers around. Cavemen in the Draracle caves can one-shot me? Better be careful of themOHFUCKTHEYRESPAWNLIKECRAZY. Killing the Larkhorn? You need to figure out ON YOUR OWN that the Green Skull actually casts a spell. Urbish Mines? Confusing as fuck for little or no reason. Top level of the White Tower? RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE. Pointless battle crammed in near the end just to add filler material? Check. Oh look, you need to unlock a four-part lock to be able to complete the game (see... just about every RPG released ever, the examples are too many to count). LoL actually has THREE of these, BTW (Elixir, Keys, Figurines). By the time I reach Castle Cimmeria, I don't care if some monster eats my armor, I know there's gonna be another one coming up soon.

People were asking for pre-2000 proofs of decline? I give you... Lands of Lore: The Throne of Chaos.

 

[Sceptic]

I was gonna brofist your post, then I saw this:

Killing the Larkhorn? You need to figure out ON YOUR OWN that the Green Skull actually casts a spell. Urbish Mines? Confusing as fuck for little or no reason. Top level of the White Tower? RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE.

Sounds all like pre-2000s incline to me...

Let's face it, you want your easymode (ZOMG WHAT DOES GREEN SKULL DO! seriously? that was like one of the easiest "puzzles" in the game) and at the same time you want to complain that the game is too easy (ZOMG ONE OF THE EASIEST CRAWLERS AROUND!). Meh.

Completely agree on the sloppy part though. I thought for YEARS that I was missing so much of the game's content until I realized it simply wasn't there. Even EOB had shades of this too with the 8th portal key, though the game's structure was otherwise extremely tight.

 

[octavius]

Things should have been better explained in the manual, like how distinct the various characters are, and how the spell levels work in practice.
But I kind of like the feel of "mystery" of some doors never being openable and some keys not having a keyhole for them.
OTOH, I wish some things were more fleshed out, like (as Unkillable Cat mentioned) Bruno's treachery, and Geron's being not very helpful (I don't quite trust that guy).
All in all it was a fun game, and in the end that is all that really matters.

BTW, if you don't use The Whole Truth quickly enough, Scotia turns into some things that are even uglier. The two first are easily dispatched, but is there any way two kill the third vile abomination? Using the Westwood Staff I did thousands of damage to it, and thowing stuff at it Conrad's Rogue levels went through the roof, but it was in vain.

 

[octavius]

If you want to bang Dawn, play Lands of Lore 2 as a good Luthor.

As for my opinion on LoL? It's one of the most beautiful dungeon crawlers ever made, I'll give it that, and most of its puzzles and level design are decent enough. Most... but not all. This game degenerates into sludge right about the time you meet the Dark Commander. There is clearly so much content cut from the game. Once the invasion of Yvel City begins, the game is on rails, and everything "conveniently works out". Plot points like how Scotia got her hands on Nathaniel's key are ignored, and the subplot of the blacksmith being a spy is almost completely overlooked. So much effort is put into creating backstory and atmosphere for the Lands, yet the story is rushed through at the end? 'Sloppy' doesn't begin to describe this.

How will you rank it compared to other real time blobbers?