Just picked up KOTOR 1&2; recommendations?

[SionIV]

A few years ago I would agree with you, but we're not talking about buying games in an era where no one is making good RPGs. If one were to buy Fallout, their money goes to Bethesda and the funding of more Fallout 4s. I would not hesitate to recommend any of the aforementioned Early Access games before purchasing Fallout. I might recommend it before AoD, but none of this is the point.

As for the cost of the games, if $3 is what you have I guess you could have done worse, OP.

I know next to nothing about these things, but how exactly does the money from Fallout (1 and 2) end up in Bethesdas pocket? Just because they buy the license, doesn't mean they get profit from games they haven't made, or do i have this wrong?

 

[Prime Junta]

They're not half bad actually, if you treat them as interactive movies with aRPG-lite elements and a choice of dark side/light side lines with minor C&C. Builds don't matter as the game pretty much plays itself.

KOTOR 1 is competent fanfic, KOTOR 2 is rather brilliant until the endgame where it falls spectacularly on its face. Each of them features some of the better characters BioWare and Obsidian respectively have written. HK-47 is cool by any standards, and Kreia is one of the better versions of MCA's granny obsession.

I still return to them every once in a while when I'm in the mood of light but dumb entertainment.

 

[Ninjerk]

A few years ago I would agree with you, but we're not talking about buying games in an era where no one is making good RPGs. If one were to buy Fallout, their money goes to Bethesda and the funding of more Fallout 4s. I would not hesitate to recommend any of the aforementioned Early Access games before purchasing Fallout. I might recommend it before AoD, but none of this is the point.

As for the cost of the games, if $3 is what you have I guess you could have done worse, OP.

I know next to nothing about these things, but how exactly does the money from Fallout (1 and 2) end up in Bethesdas pocket? Just because they buy the license, doesn't mean they get profit from games they haven't made, or do i have this wrong?

Infinitron would know better than I would (and could correct me if I'm mistaken here), but I remember there being a big sale of all the Fallout properties because Herve Caen(?) was losing the rights or somesuch thing and he wanted to make sure as many people bought it as possible to spite Bethesda (or Zenimax or whatever the name of the publishing company is nowadays).

 

[Infinitron]

Bethesda bought the Fallout IP from Interplay in the mid-2000s, but the terms of their agreement gave Herve the rights to sell the original games until 2014. He did that free giveaway on GOG right before the term lapsed.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

Never played them back in the day. Tried the Android version of KOTOR 1 after binge watching the movies a few months back. And wow, is it terrible.

The gameplay consists of you going through corridors, thinly disguised as cities/valleys/apartments/sewers/etc, and auto-clicking on enemies. Sure, you get Jedi powers, but there's not enough mana to use them as your primary means of attack. Foolishly I went for a Force oriented Sith build, and wow, I would run out of Sith Lightning after the first two trash mobs.

The writing is too dumbed down. The game goes out of its way to make sure you understand that evil characters are evil evil, while good characters are good good. Sure, there were plenty of quests with multiple solutions, but it all boils down to do the right thing or be a dick. They also saved a lot on the voice acting, most of the aliens just repeat the same few prerecorded lines of gibberish while the subtitles say different stuff. Kinda like the "Asian language" in Jade Empire.

I dropped it shortly after going through the Jedi ritual, running around Tatooine auto-attacking trash mobs kinda got to me.

 

[Bumvelcrow]

I enjoyed both immensely for different reasons. They are very different in terms of tone, as you've been told already. But if you've not played either before then you have quite a bit of fun ahead of you. KotOR 2 really needs to be played with your brain turned on, and playing a more consular-type character seems more fitting with the plot. Shame that game couldn't have been fitted into a better engine as the combat is crap in both.

 

[SionIV]

A few years ago I would agree with you, but we're not talking about buying games in an era where no one is making good RPGs. If one were to buy Fallout, their money goes to Bethesda and the funding of more Fallout 4s. I would not hesitate to recommend any of the aforementioned Early Access games before purchasing Fallout. I might recommend it before AoD, but none of this is the point.

As for the cost of the games, if $3 is what you have I guess you could have done worse, OP.

I know next to nothing about these things, but how exactly does the money from Fallout (1 and 2) end up in Bethesdas pocket? Just because they buy the license, doesn't mean they get profit from games they haven't made, or do i have this wrong?

Infinitron would know better than I would (and could correct me if I'm mistaken here), but I remember there being a big sale of all the Fallout properties because Herve Caen(?) was losing the rights or somesuch thing and he wanted to make sure as many people bought it as possible to spite Bethesda (or Zenimax or whatever the name of the publishing company is nowadays).

Bethesda bought the Fallout IP from Interplay in the mid-2000s, but the terms of their agreement gave Herve the rights to sell the original games until 2014. He did that free giveaway on GOG right before the term lapsed.

Thank you, didn't know about this, so it's Bethesda that gets the money when you buy fallout 1 & 2 now?

 

[Infinitron]

Yup. That's how things usually work, eg, buying Dawn of War now gives money to Sega, buying Star Control 2 gives money to Stardock, etc.

 

[SionIV]

Yup. That's how things usually work, eg, buying Dawn of War now gives money to Sega, buying Star Control 2 gives money to Stardock, etc.

This is good to know, there are certain companies out there that I would prefer not to support, I'm happy that I bought Fallout before 2014.

 

[Obsequious Approbation]

KOTOR 2 is rather brilliant until the endgame where it falls spectacularly on its face

How exactly does it fall on its face? Do you mean the base game, without the patch? I mean, it's pretty long and combat-heavy, but I really thought it provided a sense of closure for the story. The way your companions go it alone, or start backstabbing one another, is my favourite part about it. Then again, I've never played without the resto. patch so I wouldn't know how broken the ending used to be.

 

[Prime Junta]

I was thinking of the base game, yes. I'm not a big fan of endgames, but KOTOR2's is easily one of the worst ever.

The restoration project does improve the pacing somewhat, but it's still a lot of tedious repetitive fighting in a monotonous map, culminating in many, many words. It doesn't come close to hitting the high points of the first encounter with Sion, the shit that goes down on the Ravager which beautifully wraps up some fairly intense shit, or even the return to Dantooine.

(That said, there are some fairly tedious bits in the main part of the game too. It really is a crying shame Obsidian never got the chance to properly finish it, and as heroic as the work on the RP is, it's still a shadow of what it could have been.)

 

[Space Insect]

So I'm playing KOTOR2 for the first time and by the gods, the combat is shit! I'm currently playing as a force neutral consolar who just spams sith lighting to skip combat. However, sometimes, the companion AI is so stupid that it just runs and kills itself. Is there any faster way for me to "skip" combat than by sith lightning spam?

The dialogues and writing of KOTOR2 are the only things keeping me going, by the way, which is an enourmous feat with the shit combat.

 

[Beastro]

KOTOR 1 is worth playing seven times, at least.

Hahaha, no.

If you do play them, play Light side first, because playing Dark first makes the second replay painfully boring.

That also says a lot about the game as is, that the only highlight it what little joy you can get from fucking with people being a bad guy.

Start with KOTOR 1.

Also there is a small thing with character creation and the classes you pick, i'll put a spoiler tag on it, as it's a part of the story as well, but nothing you wouldn't be able to figure out before playing. It isn't a big thing, but I kind of wish I had known it before playing the game, as i restarted once I got to that point in the game.

Spoiler

At a certain point in the game, you get to become a Jedi and that introduces a new class. You're only able to reach a certain level in the game, so some people prefer to not level up too much at the start of the game in the starter classes, so that they can put more levels into their jedi classes.

Thanks for the tip. I probably would have restarted as well. Thaqt's going to save me some frustration

If i remember right, you're able to reach level 20. So if you only level up to 2-4 (what I do) then you'll be able to hit level 16-18 in the Jedi level. If you complete all quests and level up normally, you'll be around level 7-9 when you are able to pick a Jedi class, meaning you'll only be able to reach level 11-13 in the Jedi class. It's not as important if you want to be a melee, but if you want to focus on Jedi powers, you'll want to get as many levels into your Jedi class as possible.

Wtfs the point?

The games not hard, why go to the frustration of doing that in the beginning only to steam roll the rest of the game slightly faster than you normally would and possibly remove any slight challenges you'd encounter?

They are shit.

Given your signature I'd be surprised if you hadn't said that.

KOTOR2s the epitome of playing a game for its story because the rest is so crappy, but it's the only real piece of work that's a in-world criticism of Star Wars so I don't mind giving it a pass for that just to enjoy the story ripping into the franchises silliness.

 

[SionIV]

KOTOR 1 is worth playing seven times, at least.

Hahaha, no.

If you do play them, play Light side first, because playing Dark first makes the second replay painfully boring.

That also says a lot about the game as is, that the only highlight it what little joy you can get from fucking with people being a bad guy.

Start with KOTOR 1.

Also there is a small thing with character creation and the classes you pick, i'll put a spoiler tag on it, as it's a part of the story as well, but nothing you wouldn't be able to figure out before playing. It isn't a big thing, but I kind of wish I had known it before playing the game, as i restarted once I got to that point in the game.

Spoiler

At a certain point in the game, you get to become a Jedi and that introduces a new class. You're only able to reach a certain level in the game, so some people prefer to not level up too much at the start of the game in the starter classes, so that they can put more levels into their jedi classes.

Thanks for the tip. I probably would have restarted as well. Thaqt's going to save me some frustration

If i remember right, you're able to reach level 20. So if you only level up to 2-4 (what I do) then you'll be able to hit level 16-18 in the Jedi level. If you complete all quests and level up normally, you'll be around level 7-9 when you are able to pick a Jedi class, meaning you'll only be able to reach level 11-13 in the Jedi class. It's not as important if you want to be a melee, but if you want to focus on Jedi powers, you'll want to get as many levels into your Jedi class as possible.

Wtfs the point?

The games not hard, why go to the frustration of doing that in the beginning only to steam roll the rest of the game slightly faster than you normally would and possibly remove any slight challenges you'd encounter?

Because for people like me, creating your character is half the fun. Once you reach a certain point in the game and get introduced to new classes, it's frustrating to already have spent levels in your starter class. I come up with a character concept, put it down on paper, figure out what skills to pick, what feats to pick, and so on. Knowing that I'm stuck with 20 levels, and you get feats a certain levels, makes it a bit frustrating. If you level up normally and do all the quests before you get the Jedi class, you're such a high level that you won't be able to pick the last feats in your Jedi class.

It's not about the game being hard, it's about taking time to create your character.

 

[Ninjerk]

Yup. That's how things usually work, eg, buying Dawn of War now gives money to Sega, buying Star Control 2 gives money to Stardock, etc.

This is good to know, there are certain companies out there that I would prefer not to support, I'm happy that I bought Fallout before 2014.

Unfortunately we both gave our money to Herve Caen, who is arguably as shit as Bethesda. The best course of action would have been to have foreseen that Caen would make the game free and get it then so that neither would benefit from the purchase, but alas.

 

[SionIV]

Yup. That's how things usually work, eg, buying Dawn of War now gives money to Sega, buying Star Control 2 gives money to Stardock, etc.

This is good to know, there are certain companies out there that I would prefer not to support, I'm happy that I bought Fallout before 2014.

Unfortunately we both gave our money to Herve Caen, who is arguably as shit as Bethesda. The best course of action would have been to have foreseen that Caen would make the game free and get it then so that neither would benefit from the purchase, but alas.

It does suck, but anything is better than Bethesda in my opinion. After having seen what they did to Fallout 4, I've stopped buying any of their games.

 

[gestalt11]

I dislike the way in 1 you are forced into an odd multiclassing thing where you are a normal class for 50% and then a jedi for 50%. I prefer 2 because you start a jedi and you should without any doubt install the restoration mod on 2.

1 is a fine game, though, for what its worth.

Both games are pretty easy as far as combat but somethings are just plain fun like Jedi guardian force jump. If you do a really powerful build in KOTOR 2 ( sith marauder/concilor with force crush for example) you will annihilate everything without trying.

IMO they are both fun games, but in the end there are better full on RPGs out there. I see no reason not to play them. If Underrail were finished tomorrow would I play them over it if I was in the mood for a real RPG? No. But if I were in the mood to zap some motherfuckers with Sith lightning yeah I would play KOTOR2.

 

[Eirikur]

A key difference is that KOTOR 1 is consistent with the traditional Star Wars setting (Light versus Dark), whereas KOTOR 2 has an "everything's shitty shades of gray" approach.

Incidentally, KOTOR 2 has a fatalistic Jedi-version of Ayn Rand who'll constantly chastise your moral judgments. "You gave money to a beggar? Someone WILL KILL HIM FOR IT! YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD!" So there's that.

 

[Beastro]

Because for people like me, creating your character is half the fun. Once you reach a certain point in the game and get introduced to new classes, it's frustrating to already have spent levels in your starter class. I come up with a character concept, put it down on paper, figure out what skills to pick, what feats to pick, and so on. Knowing that I'm stuck with 20 levels, and you get feats a certain levels, makes it a bit frustrating. If you level up normally and do all the quests before you get the Jedi class, you're such a high level that you won't be able to pick the last feats in your Jedi class.

It's not about the game being hard, it's about taking time to create your character.

I guess I differ these days because I've spent years trying to work that kind of OCD perfectionist out of my system because it ruins so much of the fun. You labour to build a good character and then often don't have much fo a game elft to enjoy it with.

A key difference is that KOTOR 1 is consistent with the traditional Star Wars setting (Light versus Dark), whereas KOTOR 2 has an "everything's shitty shades of gray" approach.

Incidentally, KOTOR 2 has a fatalistic Jedi-version of Ayn Rand who'll constantly chastise your moral judgments. "You gave money to a beggar? Someone WILL KILL HIM FOR IT! YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD!" So there's that.

Kreya's bitchiness is tolerable if you imagine her breaking the fourth wall and bitching at the franchise developers and not specifically at you the PC. It also adds a bit of levity to her and depth in that she's essentially bitterly complaining atthe "gods" of Star Wars and you can easily spin her in universe as being a rambling madman ("Insanity" is more often than not people being overly rational, unable to live with the unanswerable).

 

[Endemic]

Incidentally, KOTOR 2 has a fatalistic Jedi-version of Ayn Rand who'll constantly chastise your moral judgments. "You gave money to a beggar? Someone WILL KILL HIM FOR IT! YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD!" So there's that.

Yeah, I don't think that scene is perfect. There's plenty of other dialogue from Kreia that's not Randian though.

Such as:

"You see, the war, the true war, has never been one waged by droids, warships, or soldiers. They are but crude matter, obstacles against which we test ourselves. The true war is waged in the hearts of all living things, against our own natures, light or dark. That is what shapes and binds this galaxy, not these creations of man."

"Direct action is not always the best way. It is a far greater victory to make another see through your eyes, than to close theirs forever."

"...Learn from me, my mistakes, and use that knowledge to become greater than I. That is all I ask of you, and that is all I desire. In you all my hopes rest, for the future, for the Force."

"Perhaps you were expecting some surprise, for me to reveal a secret that had eluded you, something that would change your perspective of events, shatter you to your core. There is no great revelation, no great secret. There is only you."

"The Force is like a cloud, a mist that drifts from living creature to creature, set in motion by currents and eddies. It is the eye of the storm, the passions of all living things turned into energy, into a chorus. The rising swell at the end of life, the promise of new territories and new blood, the call of new mysteries in the dark."

"Your companions were the lost Jedi. The true Jedi, upon which the future will be built. They simply needed a leader, and a teacher."

"The blinded one's heart has now been put to rest - now that vengeance no longer clouds her sight, she shall be stronger for it. She will leave her memories of Katarr in the wreckage of the past, and instead turn her eyes to the future that you have put before her."

"Where once the lost and disposed were trapped on Nar Shaddaa, now they will struggle and grow. From despair shall come hope."

 

[pippin]

This is going to be the first time I reccomend to get a game on Steam rather than GOG. With Steam, you get the best mods for KOTOR2 just one click away, besides, Steam is one patch away, so most of the game breaking bugs are fixed by now and also you get widescreen support "out of the box".
Just enjoy your pazaak, bro.

 

[Space Insect]

A key difference is that KOTOR 1 is consistent with the traditional Star Wars setting (Light versus Dark), whereas KOTOR 2 has an "everything's shitty shades of gray" approach.

Incidentally, KOTOR 2 has a fatalistic Jedi-version of Ayn Rand who'll constantly chastise your moral judgments. "You gave money to a beggar? Someone WILL KILL HIM FOR IT! YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD!" So there's that.

Kreia will also bitch at you if you didn't give money to the beggar, so she is less of an Ayn Rand and more of just a device to make you constantly question if you did the right thing.

 

[Endemic]

Kreia will also bitch at you if you didn't give money to the beggar, so she is less of an Ayn Rand and more of just a device to make you constantly question if you did the right thing.

Kreia also doesn't like you killing impulsively in several places in the game "Are psychotic urges all that drive you?".

What should have happened: she points out that taking care of the bigger problem (Exchange leaders, Goto etc) is ultimately what will change Nar Shaddaa, rather than giving a random beggar 20 credits (merely treating a symptom).

 

[Lhynn]

They are both fine, but shit to replay.
Play them once, cherish the experience, never touch them again.

 

[Excidium II]

It's worth replaying once so you kick some puppies as dork side.